General Categories > Shooting Sports
USPSA vs IDPA
SemperFiGuy:
One of the package reloading kits [RCBS, Hornady, etc.] might work out OK for your USPSA/IDPA project.
They cost in the range of $250-325, depending upon which store is holding a sale at any particular time. They contain most of what is needed to reload [but not everything, by any means.] The kit will get you started and save considerably over buying a piece-at-a-time. It will take some shooting to amortize the fixed cost of the reloading hardware, but in the long run reloaders save money and shoot more.
Economics depends on what you shoot [say, 9mm vs .357Sig] and how much you shoot [some folks on this Forum shoot 15-18,000 rounds/year or more]. Of course, reloading economics generally doesn't consider the value of your own personal time. It would probably be more economical to get a part time job and use the proceeds to buy off-shelf ammo on sale. But not as much fun.
Some of the main things you'll find about USPSA/IPSC/IDPA shooting are (a) how different shooting while moving is from stationary hole-punching and (b) how satisfying it is to be in the company of other serious shooters. You'll pick up a lot from the association.
Ever since the Bullet Hole killed Tuesday IPSC/IDPA Bang-Bang night, Omaha area shooters have been missing out. [There was a young guy from Offutt AFB. Shot a revolver. He could shoot and reload w/speed loaders, made that wheelgun sound like a Glock with a 30-round magazine. Whole another story.]
sfg
JTH:
--- Quote from: SemperFiGuy on December 20, 2012, 04:32:45 PM ---USPSA allows a wider range of handguns in competition. Which means that shooters can use so-called "tricked out" race guns, which end up being very expensive to build and shoot. And the competition is always ramping up, along with the cost.
--- End quote ---
As Fly said, this depends on the division in which you shoot. In Production, many people use box-stock guns (such as Glock 17s, S&W M&Ps, and XDMs). Matter of fact, in Production, you are actually explicitly prohibited from changing very many things about the gun.
An XDM 3.8 compact would work in Production (among other things, Production-division shooters are limited to 10 rounds in the magazine, which means you wouldn't be at a disadvantage compared to people with larger guns with more capacity). Matter of fact, I thought I saw someone shooting one at the last ENPS match.
It is certainly true that there are many more divisions in USPSA which lead to a wider array of handguns. Some of those Open guns REALLY are serious raceguns.
--- Quote ---IDPA sticks w/basic factory models, which are less expensive to buy and shoot. Sort of a Poor Man's USPSA. You can shoot your 9mm XD in the Stock Service Pistol class and (maybe) local Backup gun (BUG) competition. Start with the Qualifiers. Check out the videos on YouTube for some good examples of qualifier shooting.
--- End quote ---
The IDPA qualifier is a good basic test of shooting skills. Even if you don't shoot IDPA, shooting the qualifier is a decent test to take periodically.
Probably the biggest difference between USPSA and IDPA is the attitude about the "proper" way to shoot.
USPSA rather aggressively promotes "freestyle" which means that they set up a stage with a particular set of shooting problems, and the shooter is expected to figure out what they need to do to solve the problem with the most accuracy in the least amount of time.
IDPA rather aggressively promotes "tactical engagement" where (for the most part) they tell you how to shoot the stage, with an emphasis on cover and tactical reloads. IDPA requires (for the most part) starting with your gun concealed.
Pros for USPSA: freestyle means exactly that---you can choose to use tactics and choices that you think will be best. You can reload anywhere you like, shoot however you like, and move in any fashion you think best (all within the bounds of safety, of course.)
Cons for USPSA: It is a game--and is played as such. There are no attempts to emulate effective self-defense techniques (other than pure shooting skills), and no use of cover. The game itself is about shooting skills---any other aspect of self-defense for shooting isn't a part of USPSA.
Pros for IDPA: Shooters get practice working gun-handling from concealment, and most IDPA matches attempt to create stages that are semi-realistic in terms of potential self-defense situations. There is some emphasis on tactical engagement, and use of cover.
Cons for IDPA: Perhaps the biggest complaint you will hear (and keep hearing) about IDPA is that it can be highly subjective. What is "enough behind cover" for one range official won't be for another. "Tactical engagement" is enforced even when it is irrational. You cannot reload while not behind cover. If there is a round in the chamber you must perform a tactical reload instead of an emergency reload, even if there are no more rounds in the magazine. There is a "Failure To Do Right" penalty sometimes applied that means that even though you didn't break any of the rules for the stage, you didn't sufficiently shoot it in the manner the stage designer wanted, so you receive a large penalty.
Some IDPA people think that because IDPA uses cover and tactical engagement, it is serious self-defense training, and that USPSA is merely for gamers.
Some USPSA people think that "IDPA" stands for "I Don't Practice Anymore" and that IDPA makes random rules that they enforce subjectively.
There are elements of truth in both sides.
Some people shoot both and realize that 1) they are BOTH games, with no actual real self-defense training implicit in them other than the fact that they test shooting skills, and 2) in both sports, you have people who are idiots that should simply be ignored.
Luckily, in the shooting sports, you have a slightly lower percentage of idiots than you would run into elsewhere. Action shooting sports are a lot of fun.
--- Quote ---The courses of fire in both USPSA and IDPA will help shooters to become more proficient at gun handling and self-defense.
--- End quote ---
I'll agree with the gun handling part. As for the self-defense part---I'll agree with that with respect to the fact that higher proficiency at shooting skills makes you more effectively, AND being under stress (and the shooting sports can be stressful) shooting something that someone else designed will help you deal better with stress and some aspects of new situations.
I don't think either sport in any way helps with self-defense decision-making, or tactics.
But then again, I don't think any sport can. :)
--- Quote ---Go Shoot 'Em Both. (Many Folks Do.) Great Shooters and Great People in Both Camps. And you'll be a better handgunner for all that.
--- End quote ---
Agreed.
--- Quote ---Number of rounds varies with each course of fire setup. Mostly, it will be less than 50 rounds. But--arrive early and leave late. Shoot before and after at fixed targets in preparation for the main course of fire.
--- End quote ---
IDPA stages tend to be 1) much shorter than USPSA stages, in general, and 2) often have the targets much closer, in general.
USPSA stages are limited to 32 rounds required (which unfortunately means that you might need quite a few more if there is a Texas Star or some other horrible shooting prop). Most stages run around 24-30 rounds around here. Some stages are as short as 6 rounds. Distances range from 3 feet to 70 yards, though most targets are from 7 to 20 yards. (I've only seen one stage with 70 yard targets. It was horrible. Most stages don't have targets past 35 yards.)
IDPA stages are limited to 18 rounds in any string of fire. 75% of all shots required in a match must be at 15 yards or less. No strong-hand-only strings may require engaging targets over 10 yards away. No weak-hand-only strings may require engaging targets over 7 yards away. No headshot-only targets over 10 yards away.
Here's a couple of comparison commentary websites:
http://www.craigcentral.com/idpaipsc.asp
http://www.rrmemphis.com/op015.html
IDPA Rulebook:
http://www.idpa.com/Documents/IDPARuleBook2005.pdf
USPSA Rulebook:
http://www.uspsa.org/rules/2010HandgunRulesProof3web.pdf
If Big Shots can get an IDPA club going, that would be great. Far as I know, we don't have any currently working IDPA clubs in this area at all. For USPSA, there are a couple. (ENGC has one in Louisville, Grand Island has one, and I know there are a couple more around.)
If you don't have a gun yet, and are buying one for recreational shooting, I strongly suggest getting a full-size common pistol such as an XDM, Smith & Wesson M&P Pro, or Glock 17. They are great all-around guns, can be useful for CCW, recreational shooting, and home defense. Plus, there is significant support for accessories and parts such as good holsters, sights, springs, etc.
Glock 19s, M&P compact, and the 3.8 all will work, but will put you at a slight disadvantage--and if you are just buying your first handgun, I'd suggest a full-size. (That being said, I know a young lady who has been doing perfectly well with a Glock 19 for several years now.)
For USPSA matches, most people normally bring 200-250 rounds. (I normally bring 300, but I'm stupid.) Most people than normally take about 50-100 rounds home afterward, unless it was a really bad day.
Buying 9mm in the bulk packs from Walmart isn't too bad---either the Winchester or the Federal. If you have a Glock, shooting Tula or Wolf through it works perfectly well, too. (I would assume the same would be true for S&W or Springfield guns, but I don't know that so I'm not going to say it. :) )
It is true that if you have the space and the time, reloading can be very useful. You won't save any money :) but you'll be able to shoot a lot more for the same amount of money.
JTH:
--- Quote from: SemperFiGuy on December 21, 2012, 08:48:05 AM ---Some of the main things you'll find about USPSA/IPSC/IDPA shooting are (a) how different shooting while moving is from stationary hole-punching and (b) how satisfying it is to be in the company of other serious shooters. You'll pick up a lot from the association.
--- End quote ---
Absolutely. It is amazing how much fun it is to hang out with a bunch of people who simply like to shoot.
--- Quote ---Ever since the Bullet Hole killed Tuesday IPSC/IDPA Bang-Bang night, Omaha area shooters have been missing out.
--- End quote ---
Well, we still have USPSA at ENGC every month---but yeah, it made a difference. I know some guys out east who have three matches a week available to them if they had the time to shoot them all.
I will note that for me, going to two matches a month works pretty well---plenty of shooting, but leaves me time to actually PRACTICE.
(Shooting a match is not practice. It is a test. IMO.)
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