Swaging - nothing yet, just doing some math.

[unfy]

I won't swage 9mm.... but for doing some pricing it seems like a reasonable idea because it includes the extra cost of the brass tubing that is most prevalent for use in swaging jacketed 9mm rounds.

A 147gr bullet appears to be 2/3's of an inch long (0.67xxxx).

Gets you 17.64 bullets per foot, or 52.9 per 3 feet.

36 inch brass tubing can be had for $6 per 3 feet.... although this is on the cheaper end.  I dunno if it's a reasonable expectation.

Jacket material places you at 11 cents per bullet.... and we've not even started discussing the cost of lead... which is probably between 2 and 4 cents per bullet.

From Berry's, 1000 piece cost for entire bullets is a bit over 10 cents a bullet for 147gr, or closer to 8-9 cents for lighter.

So.... swaging 9mm with a jacket is about producing quality ammo, not necessarily cheaper.


You can swage 9mm brass into .40 jackets...

1000 9mm fired brass tends to go for $35-$40, putting you between 3 and 5 cents per jacket.

This should be able to get you a decent quality bullet and remain cheaper than berry's.


For rifle rounds, there are dies out there to take 22 brass and turn into jackets for those who like to shoot them evil black rifles.

For the 30 cal rifle rounds... 9/32 tubing gives you a size of 0.28125.  The 11/32 is 0.34375. 

.308 - 0.28125 = 0.02675 = 91.3% sized
.355 - 0.34375 = 0.01125 = 96.8% sized

Soooo... I don't really think you'll be able to use tubing to get to .308.

[bkoenig]

I've looked into swaging, but when you factor in the cost of the equipment, plus materials, plus my time it just makes more sense to buy ready made projectiles.  Those .223 swaging setups sure are neat, though.

[unfy]

Just an update...

Allegedly 380 brass can be used for 9mm jackets.  Someone also claims to have used .32 auto brass, although I don't see how that doesn't tear or similar.

[unfy]

I've looked into swaging, but when you factor in the cost of the equipment, plus materials, plus my time it just makes more sense to buy ready made projectiles.  Those .223 swaging setups sure are neat, though.

Swaging 223 shouldn't be that expensive.

Jackets are free .... and you can quite possibly be evil on the dies .

To de-rimm a 22 case for forming into a jacket, a Lee 223 sizing die might actually work just fine .

Also, gunbroker currently has a de-rimming die for $50 right now.

Swaging the lead into it ... I.... haven't checked to see if anyone offers an inexpensive swage die or not.

As far as the super expensive presses... I don't think they would be necessary on something as small as 223 in particular.  Just have a decent rock chucker or other oversized iron press and you should be good to go.

Also, if you pre-size your lead cores, you shouldn't need to exert the stupid amount of force needed to bleed lead through a bleeder hole for getting certain sizes etc.

[unfy]

I can get 40s&w jacket material down to under 3 cents (2.5 cents before shipping) per bullet.

[bkoenig]

As far as I can tell, it will cost $400 + to get all of the dies for swaging .22 caliber bullets.  If I could really crank out a lot of bullets that might be worth it, but it seems like an awfully slow process, mainly when it comes to handling the lead cores.

Still, I might give it a try some day.  The idea of an unlimited supply of bullets is intriguing.

[bkoenig]

Ok, just revisiting this.  I need a Lee-style bullet sizing die in .377 to size cast bullets for a 38-55 I just picked up.  Lee doesn't make one like that so I figured I would just make one myself on the lathe.  After all, it's just a 7/8-14 threaded rod with a hole through the center.  I could make one out of mild steel pretty easily.  No need for anything too hard for sizing lead.

That got me to thinking, I bet I could make a set of bullet swage dies myself.  I doubt if I could produce match quality bullets with a home made set, but if I could turn out something equivalent to bulk bullets it would still be worth it.  I'm thinking I will give it a try after I make a cast sizer.  Probably will use drill rod and harden it when it's all finished.

[JimP]

There is (or was) tooling available to make 9mm jaketed bullets out of 9mm brass cases and lead wire...

lemme look ....


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?122905-9mm-Swaging

[unfy]

bkoeing: i really should get a house with a work shop so i can fiddle with stuff ... so very jealous.  depending on your metal work tools and stuff, even harder steel shouldn't be a problem as long as ya take it slow and with lube... *cough*.

But yeah, with proper metal milling tools and stuff, there's nothing stopping you from making your own reloading tools.  For something like swaging, just make sure to include tiny bleeder holes where appropriate.

Jim: awesome.  I don't do 9mm, and for a reloader to canibalize brass for jackets seems weird.. but... still cool.


Since my primary interest at the moment is plinking rounds, I'd love to find a jacket material that's dirt cheap and not hard on barrels.  Bulk 9mm brass can be fairly inexpensive to get ahold of if you buy it (or happen to visit a range that doesn't mind brass harvesting heh).

I still have one last experiment or two to do with plating... but... just haven't bothered (call it disappointment if ya will heh).  I've got another idea for the plating that I *may* pursue, I dunno.  Plating would be the ultimate for cheap plinking rounds that don't have leading problems .

With the swaging and custom jackets and all of that, there are some really high quality bullets you can make.  I mean really really pretty stuff.

[JimP]

don't do 9mm, and for a reloader to canibalize brass for jackets seems weird..

Use the brass until it's worn out ...then make a bullet out of it?

[unfy]

Use the brass until it's worn out ...then make a bullet out of it?

LOL!

Love it

[bkoenig]

Just ran across another thread on swaging .40 bullets.  Here's a guy that's doing it all in one step.  He just seats a cast 9mm bullet in a 9mm case and then swages it to final shape.  Pretty slick, kind of makes me wish I had a .40.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?70121-40-cal-from-9mm-easiest-by-far-and-cheap!

[unfy]

Just ran across another thread on swaging .40 bullets.  Here's a guy that's doing it all in one step.  He just seats a cast 9mm bullet in a 9mm case and then swages it to final shape.  Pretty slick, kind of makes me wish I had a .40.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?70121-40-cal-from-9mm-easiest-by-far-and-cheap!

Seen a few topics and videos about doing so....

Indeed. 

And it's the primary route I'll be taking when swaging 40 with a jacket.  There's a fair amount to be said for inconsistencies in the 9mm brass so it might not be benchrest quality... but its more than enough for plinking and informal competition.


Skipping the brass tubing makes things a lot easier in general without having to assembly line close off one end, etc.

Of course, I don't see why you couldn't make a die that takes a sheet or whatever and creates a half jacket or something.... but... that's getting beyond things.  I *just barely* resisted picking up a small metal lathe and stuff this week.  Apartment, no 'safe place' to do it in, etc heheheh.