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Ernie Chambers on Judiciary Committee
GreyGeek:
While I was teaching physics at York College in the 1980s I was asked by the NE HW Patrol to investigate the shooting of Arthur Kirk by several swat team members who were being sued by his widow for wrongful death in a shootout near Cairo, NE.
Part of the evidence they gave me included pictures of the entire scene taken at night with flash. They included an area in which, a day or two later, Chambers claimed he found casings which supported the window's claim that swat team member Ron Griffin (IIRC) shot the victim while he was standing still, with his hands raised up, shouting "I give up!". The pictures taken that night, of which I was given copies, showed nothing on the ground in that area where Chambers claimed to have found casings. I never heard anything further about those casings except what I read in the GI Independent.
She claimed Kirk was murdered for his political beliefs. The attorney for Mrs. Kirk was a Posse Comitatus member. He had stuck long dowels into the three bullet holes in the side of the house, made by Griffin, and then used trig to "prove' that Griffin was standing behind a propane tank when he shot Kirk. I put 5 mm glass tubing through the holes and then shone a laser through the tubing. The three beams, one for each hole, formed circles of probability which intersected to form a knee high oval at an area about 70' away, at the edge of the trees which were south of the house. I also got to examine and test fire Kirk's AR-15 and the ammo, which Kirk had loaded himself. That was his undoing. His third round stove piped, jamming his rifle. The bullets were poorly seated in the casings. Many were loose and easily twisted. Some I could rock back and forth. I pulled some of them out of the casing with my finger and thumb with little effort. I took 20 of the bullets apart and weighed the powder. There was a wide variation in powder amounts between the 20 cartridges. IIRC, the differences were by as much as 30% from the average. I also got to examine the jump suit that Kirk was wearing when he was shot. From it, and the x-rays of his wounds, I determined that he was in a squatting position with his right arm at a 90 angle to his torso. A firing position. When worn in a standing position the front of the pants hung down smoothly, without wrinkles. When squatting the pants wrinkled up. The round that hit him in the front of his left leg, an inch or so left of the centerline, through the Rectus Femoris, made TWO holes in the pant leg, traveled "up" the leg and fragmented in the left Gluteus Maximus. I put "up" in quotes because he was squatting, which means that the bullet traveled horizontally, almost parallel to the thigh bone but off to the left. Kirk was over weight. When his body was placed on the autopsy table a "side view" photo of him was taken. Because of his weight that portion of his leg with the entrance wound was twisted so that the entrance would appeared to be more on the side than on the top. That photo gave rise to the claim that Kirk was shot from the side, if not the rear. The other round from Griffin's gun to hit Kirk struck him in his right Brachial Plexus, severing the brachial artery, and exiting the rear of his right arm, just above the elbow. The bullet path was parallel to the Humerus. He bled to death because of the severed artery. His right hand and arm was useless because the median nerve was damaged by the same bullet. The three bullets that hit the house did not touch Kirk. When Kirk fired at Griffin, Griffin instinctively pulled the trigger, discharging 3 rounds, He then stood up, switched to auto, and sprayed into the darkness from which Kirk fired. I was able to locate damage caused by those rounds in the fencing of the dog kennel into which Kirk crawled and died, and in a cotton wood tree behind. Kirk had built a bunker under a wind mile south of his house. It was encased in 3' diameter Cotton wood trunks, covered by a layer of rubber sheeting over a foot thick, and with horizontal firing slits on all four sides. Besides his AR-15 with the 100 rnd magazine that he carried coming out of the house, he had a .308 rifle, a .357 pistol and a 12 gauge shotgun with slugs in that bunker.
The police were trying to talk Kirk into giving up and coming out. They asked his wife to help. The last thing she said was "you know what we talked about. You know what you have to do." She hung up and Kirk came out firing.
There are not many links on the web about the story, and about Chambers history against the 2A, but here is what I could find:
http://tinyurl.com/awzbbho
http://www.nytimes.com/1989/04/02/us/amendment-on-gun-curbs-causes-dismay-in-nebraska.html
http://www.american-buddha.com/franklincoverup.11.htm
http://www.franklincase.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=113:king-expands-into-food-service-something-on-every-burner-jan-12-1985-&catid=6:news-articles&Itemid=14
f1fanatic:
With Ernie Chambers on the Judiciary Committee let me guess which bills will make it to the floor... :(
A-FIXER:
--- Quote from: GreyGeek on March 01, 2013, 03:01:33 PM ---While I was teaching physics at York College in the 1980s I was asked by the NE HW Patrol to investigate the shooting of Arthur Kirk by several swat team members who were being sued by his widow for wrongful death in a shootout near Cairo, NE.
Part of the evidence they gave me included pictures of the entire scene taken at night with flash. They included an area in which, a day or two later, Chambers claimed he found casings which supported the window's claim that swat team member Ron Griffin (IIRC) shot the victim while he was standing still, with his hands raised up, shouting "I give up!". The pictures taken that night, of which I was given copies, showed nothing on the ground in that area where Chambers claimed to have found casings. I never heard anything further about those casings except what I read in the GI Independent.
She claimed Kirk was murdered for his political beliefs. The attorney for Mrs. Kirk was a Posse Comitatus member. He had stuck long dowels into the three bullet holes in the side of the house, made by Griffin, and then used trig to "prove' that Griffin was standing behind a propane tank when he shot Kirk. I put 5 mm glass tubing through the holes and then shone a laser through the tubing. The three beams, one for each hole, formed circles of probability which intersected to form a knee high oval at an area about 70' away, at the edge of the trees which were south of the house. I also got to examine and test fire Kirk's AR-15 and the ammo, which Kirk had loaded himself. That was his undoing. His third round stove piped, jamming his rifle. The bullets were poorly seated in the casings. Many were loose and easily twisted. Some I could rock back and forth. I pulled some of them out of the casing with my finger and thumb with little effort. I took 20 of the bullets apart and weighed the powder. There was a wide variation in powder amounts between the 20 cartridges. IIRC, the differences were by as much as 30% from the average. I also got to examine the jump suit that Kirk was wearing when he was shot. From it, and the x-rays of his wounds, I determined that he was in a squatting position with his right arm at a 90 angle to his torso. A firing position. When worn in a standing position the front of the pants hung down smoothly, without wrinkles. When squatting the pants wrinkled up. The round that hit him in the front of his left leg, an inch or so left of the centerline, through the Rectus Femoris, made TWO holes in the pant leg, traveled "up" the leg and fragmented in the left Gluteus Maximus. I put "up" in quotes because he was squatting, which means that the bullet traveled horizontally, almost parallel to the thigh bone but off to the left. Kirk was over weight. When his body was placed on the autopsy table a "side view" photo of him was taken. Because of his weight that portion of his leg with the entrance wound was twisted so that the entrance would appeared to be more on the side than on the top. That photo gave rise to the claim that Kirk was shot from the side, if not the rear. The other round from Griffin's gun to hit Kirk struck him in his right Brachial Plexus, severing the brachial artery, and exiting the rear of his right arm, just above the elbow. The bullet path was parallel to the Humerus. He bled to death because of the severed artery. His right hand and arm was useless because the median nerve was damaged by the same bullet. The three bullets that hit the house did not touch Kirk. When Kirk fired at Griffin, Griffin instinctively pulled the trigger, discharging 3 rounds, He then stood up, switched to auto, and sprayed into the darkness from which Kirk fired. I was able to locate damage caused by those rounds in the fencing of the dog kennel into which Kirk crawled and died, and in a cotton wood tree behind. Kirk had built a bunker under a wind mile south of his house. It was encased in 3' diameter Cotton wood trunks, covered by a layer of rubber sheeting over a foot thick, and with horizontal firing slits on all four sides. Besides his AR-15 with the 100 rnd magazine that he carried coming out of the house, he had a .308 rifle, a .357 pistol and a 12 gauge shotgun with slugs in that bunker.
The police were trying to talk Kirk into giving up and coming out. They asked his wife to help. The last thing she said was "you know what we talked about. You know what you have to do." She hung up and Kirk came out firing.
There are not many links on the web about the story, and about Chambers history against the 2A, but here is what I could find:
http://tinyurl.com/awzbbho
http://www.nytimes.com/1989/04/02/us/amendment-on-gun-curbs-causes-dismay-in-nebraska.html
http://www.american-buddha.com/franklincoverup.11.htm
http://www.franklincase.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=113:king-expands-into-food-service-something-on-every-burner-jan-12-1985-&catid=6:news-articles&Itemid=14
--- End quote ---
Grey, as I like your stories how does this relate to this topic? If you could for simple folk like me stick to the gravity of the OP's view. Don't be offended I just am trying to understand the info you are sharing.
AF
sidearm1:
What Grey was trying to say (please don't stereotype professors) that you can't trust Chambers to actually tell the exact truth as facts depict. Chambers is real good at developing his own facts, and as the saying goes "if you tell a lie enough times it becomes truth". With Chambers on the committee nothing that makes common sense will get through.
I am still waiting for Chambers to actually show his evidence on the Lucas shooting that he claims to have. If it is so damaging to the Omaha Police, why doesn't he produce it in a court of law?
GreyGeek:
--- Quote from: sidearm1 on March 02, 2013, 08:59:06 AM ---you can't trust Chambers to actually tell the exact truth as facts depict.
--- End quote ---
Exactly. One of the links is about a talk Chambers gave in which he followed a racist to the stand and when asked why he appeared in the same forum with a racist ... well, you check the link and form your own opinion.
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