First .223 reloads - Sucess and Major FAIL

[Oleshome]

So, I finally got all the necessary equipment AND components to attempt my first reloads.  I wanted to start with hand gun loads but no bullets.  Anyhow,  Started slow with my new Hornady LNL and after endless tinkering finally got the process to function as expected albeit slowly.  After consulting 3 books, the mfg websites and a bunch of forums I settle on two different loads for two powders I have.  On one load I did just 10 rounds of H322 - 22.5gr, Winchester primers (SR) and Nosler Ballistic ST.  I was kinda dubious about this one since there were so many conflicting points of load data and commentary with .223.  The second I felt better about and did 20 rounds of BL-C(2) - 25gr, Winchester primers(SR) and Nosler Ballistic ST.  Went to Big Shots and sighted in the weapon with factory rounds first.  Then grabbed my magazine of 20rds and bang bang.  Good groups all within and inch or two, not FtF, no FtE.  So happy happy.  Go to the first batch of 10, get through the first 6 with no issue and am feeling good.  Round 7 - click.  Ejected the cartridge and the bullet is pushed into the case nearly to the point of falling inside.  I'm thinking a seating issue.  Chamber the next round - click.  Same problem.  Ok, so I put in a magazine with factory ammo - Click.  Same thing.  Oh uh.  So i'm looking at the rounds and the range master say that I probably need to do some polishing just before the lans and grooves start.  So I leave the range go home, strip the weapon and HOLY Crap.  There's a bullet stuck in the barrel about 3 inches.  SQUIB.  I put 3, that's right 3 other rounds in behind it.  Now, not only am I dumb but apparently very lucky today.  Btw, I went thru the powder drops like 20 times before I started the press I was so worried about squibs...  Long story shorter I tapped the bullet out with a cleaning rod and rubber mallet.  I think I'll stick with the BL-C(2) until I can get some Varget or H335.  Ole

[RobertH]

wow.  that could have been bad.

[unfy]

oh so lucky and glad it didn't turn out like it normally does

[Dan W]

The bullet stuck in your barrel has to be a squib that you did not recognize (H322 round #6?) so I reckon the one squib (#6) had insufficient powder.

Did it extract #6 and load a new round from the mag (#7)

If it did, the bullet had to travel down the barrel far enough to expose the gas feed hole to provide pressure to the bolt carrier. Then the bullet would have been stuck in the muzzle end and would not have damaged the freshly loaded rounds by pushing the bullet back into the case

If the bullet was stuck 3 inches in from the chamber, then there would not have been any gas pressure at the feed hole to operate the action, and therefore a new round would not have been chambered.

So the question is...how did the 3 damaged rounds get into the chamber?

[gigabelly]

As someone who is just gathering components and equipment for the first time, this frightens me.

[Lmbass14]

It looks like someone needs to do some knee mail.

[Oleshome]

@ Dan,  Right i'm sure it was a squib #6.  I'm thinking you're exactly correct in that it didn't have enough powder despite the fact I really tried to be careful.  It #6 did extract a spent casing which is why I didn't recognize the issue right away and #7 chamber.  That was the first to misfire.  The bullet itself wasn't anywhere near the muzzle end, though.  I didn't measure exactly where in the barrel it was but not far maybe 3-4 inches maybe a bit less - seemed like more than just a couple inches.  Far enough in that I had to use all three rods in my cleaning rod but still had 6-7 inches sticking out of the muzzle which is where I tapped the handle to push it back out.  It was close enough to be seen looking down the barrel with a flashlight.  The next attempts definitely chambered though, 3x to be exact.  All in all i'm very fortunate and yeah some kneeling thanks is totally in order.

[jonm]

How did you not hear the difference?

[Oleshome]

It went bang just like all the others and we were at an indoor range.  All the lanes were full and lots of other's shooting too.  I'm sure it was less loud probably significantly but with ear plugs in and headphones on I didn't catch it. 

[Dan W]

It #6 did extract a spent casing which is why I didn't recognize the issue right away and #7 chamber.

If the bullet was stuck just beyond the chamber, I wonder just how there was any gas to operate the action.

You are really lucky that upon the next cartridge firing, it did not grenade your rifle

[M7025-06]

Sounds like you need to crimp to keep the bullets seated.  I had the same thing happen with my first AR reloads, so I picked up a Lee Factory Crimp Die.  That solved the problem.

I'm glad you lucked out today...that could've been very bad. 

 

[Dan W]

Crimping IS NOT a fix all for insufficient neck tension.

If bullets can be pushed back into the cartridge on feeding, there is an issue with the sizer ball on the full length resizer die.

Good neck tension requires an inside the neck dimension after resizing of  .002-.003" under the diameter of the bullet (.221-.222") Bullet should be .224"


If you have a .003" interference fit you will not need any crimp (with the exception full auto use)

If you can insert a bullet into a resized case and then push the bullet into the neck with pressure against a wood block, your neck tension is too low to maintain COL on feeding

[M7025-06]

Crimping IS NOT a fix all for insufficient neck tension.

If bullets can be pushed back into the cartridge on feeding, there is an issue with the sizer ball on the full length resizer die.

Good neck tension requires an inside the neck dimension after resizing of  .002-.003" under the diameter of the bullet (.221-.222") Bullet should be .224"


If you have a .003" interference fit you will not need any crimp (with the exception full auto use)

If you can insert a bullet into a resized case and then push the bullet into the neck with pressure against a wood block, your neck tension is too low to maintain COL on feeding

I understand that.  I had 1 round where the bullet pushed back into the casing and decided a light crimp would give me a little piece of mind.  The measured inside dimension of my cases runs anywhere from 0.220''-0.222'', so you're right in where I probably don't need to crimp...but like I said, it gives me a little piece of mind.

[Dan W]

Just as long as we don't rely on a crimp to overcome a sizing error, I am fine with it. I use the Lee FCD too when I want to apply a crimp

[Oleshome]

Can you clarify that Dan?  I don't understand what you by "issue with the sizer ball."  Remember i'm a newbie to reloading so I may be missing something totally obvious.  I was really really careful to follow the instructions with the die, online videos from Hornady and numerous others on how to set up the sizing/decapping die.  Even so, I've probably missed something and i'd like to recheck.

Ole

[Dan W]

The sizer ball resizes the neck when it pulls back out of the case.

The die squeezes the neck down on the downstroke to about .219-.220" then in the upstroke the ball is pulled back through to set the final neck size of .221-.222"

The problem could be that the sizer ball is too big and leaves the neck dimension .224" or the same size as the bullet...result? no tension to hold the bullet in place.

This is not an adjustable thing. It is either right or it is wrong. I would measure a few necks after the full length resize operation.

If they are too big (.224") then your sizer ball is defective ( too large ) If it is just a bit too big they can be polished down to the correct size.

As you can see .001" can be the difference between go and no go

[Dan W]

I would also measure some of your bullets to make sure they are not undersized

[00BUCK]

Just as long as we don't rely on a crimp to overcome a sizing error, I am fine with it. I use the Lee FCD too when I want to apply a crimp

+1000
You cannot compensate for bad neck sizing by crimping, you are just asking for MAJOR trouble doing so.
Measure your bullets with a GOOD digital micrometer that measures to the thousandths (.000) they should be .224
If they are the you need to take your sizing die apart and measure the expander ball and make sure it is .223 or a little less.
The way the die works when you resize / decap the brass is this:
As the case is pushed into the die the expander ball passes through the case mouth, beyond the neck and into the case - the neck is then compressed down to about .220 ID. As the case is being pulled out of the die the expander ball passes through the neck and will expand it to about .221 - .223.

I have to ask, when you resized your cases did you make sure to lube the inside of the case neck? If not the extra drag created by the expander ball in a "dry" case neck can actually open the necks too much.

[Oleshome]

So, I did measure the Nosler bullets i'm using.  I looked at 20 and every one came out at 0.221.  I'll have to open other boxes after work since i ordered 1000 of these.  Yes, i did lube the interior of the case necks too.  I used Hornady One Shot Case lube to spray them all before I dumped them into the case feeder. 

[Oleshome]

Here is the pics of the rounds that failed.  Notice one of them is NOT a reloaded round.