Apparently I am not the only one "out of the loop"...

[GreyGeek]

It appears that a suit at Forbes is asking the same question:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphbenko/2013/03/11/1-6-billion-rounds-of-ammo-for-homeland-security-its-time-for-a-national-conversation/

It IS time for a national discussion.

Spending money this way is beyond absurd well into perverse.  According to the AP story a DHS spokesperson justifies this acquisition to “help the government get a low price for a big purchase.” Peggy Dixon, spokeswoman for the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center:  “The training center and others like it run by the Homeland Security Department use as many as 15 million rounds every year, mostly on shooting ranges and in training exercises.”

At 15 million rounds (which, in itself, is pretty extraordinary and sounds more like fun target-shooting-at-taxpayer-expense than a sensible training exercise) … that’s a stockpile that would last DHS over a century.  To claim that it’s to “get a low price” for a ridiculously wasteful amount is an argument that could only fool a career civil servant.

The suit is wrong about how long 15 million rounds would last.

Here's the  "About" page for the FLETC: http://www.fletc.gov/about-fletc

*The FLETC serves as an interagency law enforcement training organization for 91 Federal agencies.
*The FLETC also provides services to state, local, tribal and international law enforcement agencies.
*The FLETC is headquartered at Glynco, Ga., near the port city of Brunswick, halfway between Savannah, Ga., and Jacksonville, Fla. In addition to Glynco, the FLETC operates two other residential training sites in Artesia, N.M., and Charleston, S.C. The FLETC also operates a non-residential in-service re-qualification and advanced training facility in Cheltenham, Md., for use by agencies with large concentrations of personnel in the Washington, D.C., area. The FLETC has oversight and program management responsibilities at the International Law Enforcement Academies (ILEA) in Gaborone, Botswana, and Bangkok, Thailand. The FLETC also supports training at other ILEAs in Hungary and El Salvador.

It's primary facility is Glynco: http://www.fletc.gov/about-fletc/locations/glynco/

Glynco is the headquarters facility for the FLETC. It is situated on 1,600 acres in southeast Georgia with modern conventional facilities such as classrooms, dormitories, and administrative and logistical support structures, including a dining hall capable of serving more than 4,000 meals per day. Additionally, Glynco has 18 firearms ranges, including a state-of-the-art indoor range complex with 146 separate firing points; and eight highly versatile semi-enclosed ranges with 200 additional firing points. Other training assets include a sprawling complex of driver training ranges, a physical techniques facility, explosives range, fully functional mock port of entry, and numerous other structures which support the entire training effort.

Personally, I wouldn't object to the FLETC getting 15 Million rds per year for training.  Assume, for grins and giggles, that there are 360 shooting  stations at Glynco.  That's about 42,000 rounds per station, or 3,500 rds per month per station, which would give 35 people 100 rds of practice ammo per month, or 5 rds per day for a 20 working day month.  That's not much ammo for serious practice.  Even 10 times that amount wouldn't be serious.   Glyco trains folks from all around the world.  They  are probably busy at least 2080 days per year. A good practice session could burn 250 rounds.   360 shooting stations burning 250 rds in 2080 days would amount to  about 190 million rounds.

After being trained I'd be surprised if DHS, FEMA, ATF or the SSI spent more than  150 rds per month per officer target practicing, which would be less than 1 million rounds per year.

So, the Administration has to be TRANSPARENT, according to its  campaign promise, and explain why 1.4 Billion rounds of hollow point ammo  is a necessary purchase.  National security isn't a valid excuse any more because the implications of an INTERNAL police force needing that much ammo, even over the next 15 years, gives rise to serious concerns about what their goals are.

[Hank]

This among other things have been a bit of concern to me. Not afraid to admit that.
I also know that `too much worry`, could be unhealthy.
IMO- stay aware of what is going on, prepare for the worst, hope/pray for the best. (better include, educate yourself and VOTE)
Another opinion; nothing wrong with posting such things grey (regard to reply in another of your post)

[ILoveCats]

Grey, don't take the out of the loop thing too personally.  Everybody here is probably experienced in something, and if I posted something saying "I don't own a rifle and am new to shooting but I know that a .30-06 case is 3.494" long because I found a web page that says so." then someone who is a reloader corrected me, that would be great.  But if I contradicted him based on web findings and no first-hand experience, that would make me a .... well, I can think of lots of euphamisms for that. 

You're not quite so far off base this time there are some actual facts here.  At 150 rounds rounds per officer, though, you're still way on the low side of what it takes to qualify.  That said, I'm all about fiscal conservatism and cutting back wherever possible, but the qualification regimen isn't out of line with private training of the sort.  E.g., Gunsite's courses require the student to bring 1000 to 1500 rounds along, per course.

Also, you're still omitting many of the 22 components that make up just this one agency.  One component alone is one of the five US armed forces, which has even had ships assigned in the Persian Gulf for nearly a decade 'though most people aren't aware of that.  And the Coasties have some weapons that can go through a LOT of ammo in a very short amount of time.

[Dan W]

Reopening contentious topics after they have been locked by the Admin will get you booted on most forums.

With that in mind I will allow this discussion to go forward only as long as it remains civil. Turn it into another pissing match and you may not be around long

[Gary]

Reopening contentious topics after they have been locked by the Admin will get you booted on most forums.

With that in mind I will allow this discussion to go forward only as long as it remains civil. Turn it into another pissing match and you may not be around long

I would very much like to participate in this discussion, but as you are warning everyone, you really do not appreciate this thread, I will let it go.   I did not see the first thread, that I remember.

[Ronvandyn]

My 2 cents worth:

When I was in the Security Police armory at RAF Upper Heyford in the UK we had 100,000 rounds of 5.56 on hand, another 100,000 of 7.62, and about 1,000 40mm, in the armory itself.  In a bunker located in a secure area of the base we had more than 2 million 5.56, another 3 million of 7.62, and I don’t remember how much 40mm HE, all were war reserves.  And this was an AIR FORCE base, not marine or army.  And the Air Force really does not shoot all that much.  The war reserves were expected to last less than a week, so similar caches were available at every base in Europe. 

The USCG, a segment of DHS, is shooting all the time and I can’t even conceive of the number of round they go through annually.  And one must remember that the 2.4 billion rounds is contracted to be delivered over the next 10 years. 

Honestly, it’s not really all that much.  Given the number of actual shooters that DHS employ’s I don’t find it at all suspicious that they are asking for such a huge number of rounds.

Ron