< Back to the Main Site

Author Topic: There is no ammo shortage! A guy proved it to me...  (Read 2811 times)

Offline GreyGeek

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 1687
There is no ammo shortage! A guy proved it to me...
« on: March 20, 2013, 08:38:44 PM »
and I was shocked.   All he had to do was tell  me to visit http://www.gunbroker.com/

I did ... and there it was.  All the ammo, primers, powder, bullets, parts, etc... that I could ever want to buy ....  IF ... I wanted to pay 4X or 5X the former market price for it.

Remember that 1,400 rds of .22LR "Bucket of Bullets" I told you about that was at Scheel's for $70?   There were several offering those buckets for $240-$270, IF that is the final price of their auctions.
Want 5,000 rds of 9mm? 
Ammo was in bulk sizes ranging from 250 rd to 50,000 rounds.   
Want 5,000 small pistol primers?  It's there IF you want to pay $286, assuming that's the final bid price.

The  zombies  are staking out the stores and buying up everything in order to sell on auctions for 5X the normal price.


Offline gsd

  • 2013 NFOA Firearm Rights Champion award winner
  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Oct 2010
  • Location: Lincoln, NE
  • Posts: 1831
Re: There is no ammo shortage! A guy proved it to me...
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2013, 08:45:11 PM »
I watched that Bucket O Bullets go for $277.  Great googly moogly thats like 0.18/round.
It is highly likely the above post may offend you. I'm fine with that.

Offline kevins7189

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Aug 2009
  • Posts: 16
Re: There is no ammo shortage! A guy proved it to me...
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2013, 08:52:03 PM »
Greed (Latin, avaritia), also known as avarice or covetousness, is, like lust and gluttony, a sin of excess. However, greed (as seen by the church) is applied to a very excessive or rapacious desire and pursuit of material possessions. Thomas Aquinas wrote, "Greed is a sin against God, just as all mortal sins, in as much as man condemns things eternal for the sake of temporal things." In Dante's Purgatory, the penitents were bound and laid face down on the ground for having concentrated too much on earthly thoughts. Scavenging and hoarding of materials or objects, theft and robbery, especially by means of violence, trickery, or manipulation of authority are all actions that may be inspired by greed. Such misdeeds can include simony, where one attempts to purchase or sell sacraments, including Holy Orders and, therefore, positions of authority in the Church hierarchy.

As defined outside of Christian writings, greed is an inordinate desire to acquire or possess more than one needs, especially with respect to material wealth.

Question is, given the opportunity, would you (or do you currently) contribute to this crazy problem?
“I do not believe in taking away the right of the citizen for sporting, for hunting and so forth, or for home defense. But I do believe that an AK-47, a machine gun, is not a sporting weapon or needed for defense of a home.”  --Ronald Reagan

Offline bkoenig

  • Gun Show Volunteer
  • Powder Benefactor
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2009
  • Location: Lincoln, NE
  • Posts: 3677
  • Aspiring cranky old gun nut
Re: There is no ammo shortage! A guy proved it to me...
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2013, 08:52:24 PM »
**Eyeing the unopened Bucket O Bullets in my basement***

Offline gsd

  • 2013 NFOA Firearm Rights Champion award winner
  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Oct 2010
  • Location: Lincoln, NE
  • Posts: 1831
Re: There is no ammo shortage! A guy proved it to me...
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2013, 09:16:12 PM »
**Eyeing the unopened Bucket O Bullets in my basement***

That would give you an excuse not to sell your Argentine...
It is highly likely the above post may offend you. I'm fine with that.

Offline daleemt

  • Forum Member
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2013
  • Posts: 14
Re: There is no ammo shortage! A guy proved it to me...
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2013, 10:32:07 PM »
I think we are starting to hit the peek, and these guys are getting nervous, My LGS has already started dropping there gouging prices they set two weeks ago.

Offline Bucket

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Location: Bellevue
  • Posts: 172
Re: There is no ammo shortage! A guy proved it to me...
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2013, 10:50:01 PM »
Classic economics.  Demand goes up with constant supply, price goes up.  If prices are artificially kept low, then shortages result (look at Cabelas, there's never anything on the shelf). 

High prices serve to put a damper on the demand and encourage manufacturers to increase production.  However that takes time. 

Several outcomes are possible.  Demand returns to "normal" at which time prices will come back down.  Manufacturers increase production to meet demand and prices come back down.  Manufacturers reach max capacity and there are constraints on further expansion of production and demand stays high, at which point, so do prices (think price of gas). 

I suspect we'll see a combination of the first two.  Demand will slacken a bit when the hysteria dies down, and manufacturers' marginal production increases will increase supply.  Eventually we'll see the bottom drop out then rebound back to normal.

Until then, you'll pay a premium for high demand products.

Offline kevins7189

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Aug 2009
  • Posts: 16
Re: There is no ammo shortage! A guy proved it to me...
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2013, 12:05:22 AM »
Not 'classic economics'.  You cannot compare gas to ammo... the economy would collapse if gas went from 3.50 to 10.50 overnite.
“I do not believe in taking away the right of the citizen for sporting, for hunting and so forth, or for home defense. But I do believe that an AK-47, a machine gun, is not a sporting weapon or needed for defense of a home.”  --Ronald Reagan

Offline camus

  • Steel Benefactor
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2012
  • Posts: 157
Re: There is no ammo shortage! A guy proved it to me...
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2013, 06:52:26 AM »
In this case the demand is rather artificial as it guided by hysteria and speculation.

I doubt we see much or any increase in manufacturing, they can recognize a false shortage. Eventually people will quit stockpiling, they only have some much money. Then the speculative buyers will be stuck when the bubble bursts.

And wow, I haven't spent much time on Gun Broker and have never looked at ammo there, sheesh.

Offline gsd

  • 2013 NFOA Firearm Rights Champion award winner
  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Oct 2010
  • Location: Lincoln, NE
  • Posts: 1831
Re: There is no ammo shortage! A guy proved it to me...
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2013, 07:24:18 AM »
Gunbroker is good for the oddball stuff, i stay away from the mainstream stuff due to exactly what has been stated above.
It is highly likely the above post may offend you. I'm fine with that.

Offline NENick

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 661
Re: There is no ammo shortage! A guy proved it to me...
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2013, 08:06:16 AM »
Classic economics.  Demand goes up with constant supply, price goes up.  If prices are artificially kept low, then shortages result (look at Cabelas, there's never anything on the shelf). 

High prices serve to put a damper on the demand and encourage manufacturers to increase production.  However that takes time. 

Several outcomes are possible.  Demand returns to "normal" at which time prices will come back down.  Manufacturers increase production to meet demand and prices come back down.  Manufacturers reach max capacity and there are constraints on further expansion of production and demand stays high, at which point, so do prices (think price of gas). 

I suspect we'll see a combination of the first two.  Demand will slacken a bit when the hysteria dies down, and manufacturers' marginal production increases will increase supply.  Eventually we'll see the bottom drop out then rebound back to normal.

Until then, you'll pay a premium for high demand products.
I'm hoping that a portion of the panic buying market calms down when supply catches up. Then they'll start needing to pull their money back out of the guns/ammo and create vast surpluses. Plenty of people are throwing every penny they've got at this stuff, and they'll need that cash at some point. I will then fill my basement to the ceiling with ammo. I'll create a horde of ammo that DHS would be envious of.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2013, 08:17:29 AM by NENick »

Offline NENick

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 661
Re: There is no ammo shortage! A guy proved it to me...
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2013, 08:09:47 AM »
.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2013, 08:17:05 AM by NENick »

Offline gwilly

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Apr 2010
  • Posts: 53
Re: There is no ammo shortage! A guy proved it to me...
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2013, 08:37:57 AM »
Yeh, the shortage for the most part has been created by panic buying. More than likely though after the panic has passed supply will improve but I fear prices won't retreat back to the pre-panic binge.....kinda how it works.  :(

On a related topic .......I was looking for some primers & checked out the supply on GB. Plenty to be had there for a price too. What got my attention though is many.....the majority it seems.....are willing to ship them & bypass the hazmat fee & proper shipping requirements. That concerns me more than the price gouging.

Guess I'll wait to find them at a local establishment. (& wait....& wait.....& wait) ::)

Offline CitizenClark

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
  • Posts: 702
  • Live free or die!
    • Silencer News
Re: There is no ammo shortage! A guy proved it to me...
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2013, 08:59:53 AM »
Classic economics.  Demand goes up with constant supply, price goes up.  If prices are artificially kept low, then shortages result (look at Cabelas, there's never anything on the shelf). 

High prices serve to put a damper on the demand and encourage manufacturers to increase production.  However that takes time. 

Several outcomes are possible.  Demand returns to "normal" at which time prices will come back down.  Manufacturers increase production to meet demand and prices come back down.  Manufacturers reach max capacity and there are constraints on further expansion of production and demand stays high, at which point, so do prices (think price of gas). 

I suspect we'll see a combination of the first two.  Demand will slacken a bit when the hysteria dies down, and manufacturers' marginal production increases will increase supply.  Eventually we'll see the bottom drop out then rebound back to normal.

Until then, you'll pay a premium for high demand products.

Heroic post, and absolutely right. There are tons of first-time buyers on the market and panic buyers snapping up ammo. High prices reflect the new level of demand, and, as you say, they encourage new market entrants to dedicate their capital to satisfying this new level of demand.

Offline CitizenClark

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
  • Posts: 702
  • Live free or die!
    • Silencer News
Re: There is no ammo shortage! A guy proved it to me...
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2013, 09:02:36 AM »
Not 'classic economics'.  You cannot compare gas to ammo... the economy would collapse if gas went from 3.50 to 10.50 overnite.


Tell that to my childhood friends in Louisiana.

If prices were actually allowed to adjust freely like that during a disaster, there would actually be a much better chance of desperate people getting gasoline after a disaster. It is the idiotic, commie price-gouging laws that exacerbate shortages and take away a natural market incentive for owners of capital to find its best and highest uses.

Offline GreyGeek

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 1687
Re: There is no ammo shortage! A guy proved it to me...
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2013, 09:23:29 AM »
Guess I'll wait to find them at a local establishment.

That's what  I'm  going to do.   I want local suppliers to remain in business.

Offline GreyGeek

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 1687
Re: There is no ammo shortage! A guy proved it to me...
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2013, 09:30:36 AM »
It is the idiotic, commie price-gouging laws that exacerbate shortages and take away a natural market incentive for owners of capital to find its best and highest uses.

Slightly off topic but exactly on point.  The CVS "body fat" requirement is a classic example of Marxist command and control driving the price  of health care through the roof, adding to the costs contributed by health insurance companies when they tossed out the standard mortality tables to determine rates and began dividing the population into groups: young & healthy on one end and old & sick on the other.  Then they gave the healthy ones cheep rates and extorted the old & sick.  A free market would amortize the costs over the entire population.   My wife's mother lived with us for 20 years, till the day she died.  In the latter years I handled her financial matters.   It amazed me to learn that the health insurance companies,  with their "coordination of benefits" scheme, were colluding to let Medicare pay first (and THEY were the brokers) and then they'd pay only the difference between what Medicare paid  and the plan's copay.   It was welfare to the corporations.

Offline CitizenClark

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
  • Posts: 702
  • Live free or die!
    • Silencer News
Re: There is no ammo shortage! A guy proved it to me...
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2013, 09:59:20 AM »
Slightly off topic but exactly on point.  The CVS "body fat" requirement is a classic example of Marxist command and control driving the price  of health care through the roof, adding to the costs contributed by health insurance companies when they tossed out the standard mortality tables to determine rates and began dividing the population into groups: young & healthy on one end and old & sick on the other.  Then they gave the healthy ones cheep rates and extorted the old & sick.  A free market would amortize the costs over the entire population.   My wife's mother lived with us for 20 years, till the day she died.  In the latter years I handled her financial matters.   It amazed me to learn that the health insurance companies,  with their "coordination of benefits" scheme, were colluding to let Medicare pay first (and THEY were the brokers) and then they'd pay only the difference between what Medicare paid  and the plan's copay.   It was welfare to the corporations.

Yes, this is essentially always the result of "regulation" of big business: regulatory capture by the big players, something which comes at the expense of the consumer and smaller, newer market entrants who want to compete.

Offline GreyGeek

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 1687
Re: There is no ammo shortage! A guy proved it to me...
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2013, 10:02:43 AM »
regulatory capture by the big players

Well put.    The regulations make the barriers to entry so high that only the big players can enter or stay in the game.

Offline Bucket

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Location: Bellevue
  • Posts: 172
Re: There is no ammo shortage! A guy proved it to me...
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2013, 08:10:03 PM »
Well put.    The regulations make the barriers to entry so high that only the big players can enter or stay in the game.

Exactly!