Powder Coating Lead Bullets

[SS_N_NE]

I have a 15x40 lathe, 9x20 lathe, small mill, large CNC mill, Drill press, CNC 4x8 plasma table, TIG welder and lots of other machines/tools in my back yard garage. Downloaded an AR receiver model in CAD. May have to end one shortage for myself...

Now I may have to add powder coat to my tools.

[DangerousDrummer]

I think Unfy and I have found a kindred soul.

It was actually Unfy's determination to solve the plating challanges that caused me to join this forum. Although I am a Alabamian, i was born in Omaha! And I confess, I like to build stuff, and am not intimidated by complex problems. Here is the last project i did before I got into shooting.

The above is an underwater ROV with a 420p sony camera, 30 lb thrust motor with 6 fwd speeds and 2 reverse, 2 - 800 candlepower LED spotlights capable of depths to 70 ft. I am currently redesigning the steering to use ND magnets to magnetically couple steering thrusters instead of magnetically coupled rudders. I have tested in the pool, but not in the Gulf yet. The pros say "never put anything in the water that you are not willing to lose". I want the steering to work better before I go live!

I have also built a lot of loading tools. I believe in functional art, in other words not only should stuff work, but it should look good too! I picked up a PC gun at Harbor Freight today and will get the Walmart toaster oven tonight. I intend to coat my last batch of Muzzleloader bullets tomorrow, and then will start on my 458 SOCOM 350 gn bullets after I modify my mold base plug to include a pin that will allow me to pin mount my bullets for spray coating and baking.

[DangerousDrummer]

I have a 15x40 lathe, 9x20 lathe, small mill, large CNC mill, Drill press, CNC 4x8 plasma table, TIG welder and lots of other machines/tools in my back yard garage. Downloaded an AR receiver model in CAD. May have to end one shortage for myself...

Now I may have to add powder coat to my tools.

Ooh, 15x40 lathe. Sweet. My 9x20 is not quite big enough to perform barrel work, and my skills are not good enough to trust doing it if it was.

Have you seen the AL reciever "paper weights" for $25? A coworker bought 5, and will give me one if I help him mill/drill one for him. They also sell a jig for setup if you can't do layout.

[bkoenig]

You guys are making me feel inadequate with my little 7x12 lathe.  I'm going to have to go buy a Corvette or a Harley to compensate.

[unfy]

*drool at tools*

One day .  I've considered the tiny $200 table top mini lathe.  But I said 'no' because I knew I would just want a bigger one.

GreyGeek: wonderful thing that internet .  Depending on topics chosen, I'd suggest TOR btw.  Although ya got nothing to hide (a book is just a book after all)... take a step or two to avoid hassle down the line prolly aint a bad idea.

Dangerous: where about in AL are ya ? I lived in Pensacola, FL for many a year, have a few friends in AL, and we do some business/work in AL (yay tech industry).  Also, by all means post pics of PC experiments .

BK/color selection: good idea.  My original thought was indifference to color... it's all just lead.  But blue is actually a wise color to avoid due to civilian typical use for training etc.  Kinda sad that can't do some RWB booooooolits just to be all American and stuff hehehe.

I'm gonna wake up, have a cup of coffee, and then give first stab PC a try with just some aluminum foil.  Sadly, it's nearing 1800 and the BH will be closed so can't go try'em.

[SS_N_NE]

Have you seen the AL reciever "paper weights" for $25? A coworker bought 5, and will give me one if I help him mill/drill one for him. They also sell a jig for setup if you can't do layout.

Have you tried to buy a "paper weight". I can't even find laser ammo to try out my new laser target recorder.

[SS_N_NE]

http://arlower.ray-vin.com/

Has a .pdf "book" on doing the machine work on a blank forging.

Sorry, back to boolits.

[DangerousDrummer]

Unfy: I am 60 mi from Pensacola in Mobile, but grew up in Gulf Shores.

Ss: I did not know there was a shortage of paper weights. I will be glad when 3d printing gets a little cheaper, then we can build anything, or at least until the government bans 3d printing. Have I mentioned that I am not exactly a fan of government bureaucrats?

Off to get an oven.

[GreyGeek]

Depending on topics chosen, I'd suggest TOR btw.

Here's TOR: https://www.torproject.org/
It has "About" and other info which points out its  limitations.

TOR (The Onion Ring) isn't as secure as people think.  I used to run TOR but after researching its insecurities, and the fact that government can control the admin at the exit  server, I decided  it wasn't worth the hassle.  Wikiepedia lists some of the  problems:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onion_routing#Weaknesses
and more than one criminal has been brought down trusting in TOR:
http://www.emptywheel.net/2012/04/16/dea-busts-tor-operated-farmers-market-drug-market-place
http://www.cso.com.au/article/431755/aussie_cops_silk_road_tor_anonymity_guaranteed_/

Here is a tutorial on how to  hijack a TOR network:


Personally, I would NEVER use the Internet to transfer information  I wanted to keep secret except in one circumstance.  Developing a GPG 4096 encryption  key to encrypt stuff I wanted to keep secret and/or transmit to others.  Manually give the public key to those whom I wanted to access the info.  Then I could encrypt the  info and email it to  the person I gave the public key to.  However, if he betrays me ....

As far as owning a book about how to make a machine gun from hardware  store parts, without the need of a lath, I still have the 1st Amendment.   Having the information is not yet illegal.  Making it is,  unless I get a license from the ATF.  Then it is legal.  If that doesn't work then the ball game is over anyway and we have bigger problems.  As far as making them for some clandestine militia ... that's not my ball game.

[unfy]

I did a $30 cheap oven.

Do note, a bigger oven means more bullets cooked at once, or other PC objects .

As a first go, it's more than good enough though.


I'll get pics posted soon.

First run: kinda ugly, but hey... I can't even use a rattle can lol .

I'm impressed so far.

The fillet problem might be more pronounced than we might think, or I used really cheap 'heavy duty' aluminum foil, or my coat was too thick or something.

Pushed a coated bullet through a lee press mount push through sizing die and it didn't care one bit.  I did touch it with just a tiny bit of case lube of course.

Hit the PC finish with a wirebrush by hand and it didn't care.

This looks like a winner so far


edit:

typo correction, heading to work, will discuss more when i get there.

[unfy]

Oh, I figured I was doing a small bit, 20 bullets or so... that ... it wasn't going to be a big deal, but a paint hood or something is wise.  put down some cardboard first or other stuff etc etc etc

[bkoenig]

Did the sizer knock off the fillet?

[SS_N_NE]

I will be glad when 3d printing gets a little cheaper, then we can build anything, or at least until the government bans 3d printing.

Yeah, uhm...search 3d printer seized. Not government, but still. You can make your own guns, just don't look like you might make anything for anyone else. The BATF will come.

[Hank]

I have a 15x40 lathe, 9x20 lathe, small mill, large CNC mill, Drill press, CNC 4x8 plasma table, TIG welder and lots of other machines/tools in my back yard garage. Downloaded an AR receiver model in CAD. May have to end one shortage for myself...

Now I may have to add powder coat to my tools.

Wowza..quite a impressive back yard garage! I think get a wire EDM for doing the mag. well, would make the job easier...might as well

[unfy]

I can strike it if press really hard with a car key, but it's pretty durable stuff.

The buckshot thing was thrown in just for fun ... wouldn't suggest actually powder coating it that way since ya gotta re-melt the sprue which wouldn't be cool with PC on it.

In the second picture, shows fillet problems.

Center bullet shiny surface is aluminium foil that stuck to it.  To the left of that is another bullet that had similar issue.  Slightly below that is a bullet that has a dark spot on the wall.  Dunno what that's about.

[unfy]

So far, some notes:

Safety, blah blah blah.  Powder coat powder aint good for ya, grab some cheap face masks or better yet a proper gas mask / respirator.  Some latex/nylon/nitrile gloves are also a requirement.  Use in a ventilated area.  When ya cure/bake the stuff, it'll smoke a little (not a lot), and it'll be fumey.  Do so outdoors or in well ventilated shop etc.

a) I didn't pick a bullet that had a fillet issue when I sized it (only sized one, was in a rush).  I don't think it'd necessarily strip it off -- the PC is kinda like... well.. slightly rubbery plasticy paint after it's done. Super fine sand paper would prolly get it off without much issue.  I'll go through and size and load them tonight and will report how sizing handles things.

b) taking a sheet of metal and screwing / soldering / whatever bolts or sheet metal heads to it would prolly do fine for getting bullets lifted up off of the 'ground' so that the fillet doesn't form.  this was discussed a lot in the CB thread, dunno if anyone actually did it.  Real simple to do though.

c) spacing might have been fine... there are some that I didn't get a super duper great job on the coating perfectly... but again, i suck at rattle cans so that was to be expected.   I'll assume 1 inch centers will do just fine.

d) with the pictures above, yes i did powder coat some normally-would-reject bullets as well.  was low on cast stuff so just went with it.

e) it's like painting with heavy smoke or with a powdered sugar gun.  you'll want a 3-4 sided bit of cardboard / project board to help keep overspray contained.

f) 20psi worked wonderfully i think, do note: total newb

g) i gave the lead an acetone bath and thorough dry time before doing this to remove any finger oil

h) this was down right easy to do... and not that time consuming.  bigger oven for more curing at once is prolly gonna be in my future much later... and getting some time in actual PC spraying will improve quality of coats etc.

[unfy]

TOR (The Onion Ring) isn't as secure as people think.  I used to run TOR but after researching its insecurities, and the fact that government can control the admin at the exit  server, I decided  it wasn't worth the hassle. 

This is undoubtedly a discussion for another thread... but for two cents:

The Silk Road busts weren't accomplished due to problems with TOR - they were done via old fashion police work and social engineering.

Also, Silk Road operates (or operated? i dunno if it's still up or not) entirely within the TOR network, it doesn't use exit nodes.  There are plenty of tor-only sites.

Many of the issues discussed concerning TOR sites or breaks in them etc are the work of other faulty software, not TOR itself.  This would be idiots that take a link found in TOR and open them in a normal browser, or security holes in browsers/pdfs/etc blah blah blah.

I think the only useful attack against TOR related stuff that I've seen is in relation to packet size / finger printing of common stuff.  Kinda like the wireless encryption breaking stuffs (a common packet repeated enough lets ya break it eventually... ie: you can identify what it's contents are with near certainty due to how common the packet is like a connection open / SYN, then work out the key from there).

Lastly, there's always freenet if ya don't like TOR .

[unfy]

Oh yeah, wanted to post a note.

Federal law has some guidelines on ammo that aint allowed.  A jacket that comprises more than 25% by weight of the bullet, steel (or certain other metal) cores, and things that are basically designed to defeat body armor.

Rifle rounds don't have similar limitations... and my old man joked about getting a 30-06 or 303 round with a tungsten core in it.... I never made such a thing, but it shouldn't be too hard to make heh. 

Annnnnywayyy...

PC bullets don't defeat body armor or anything like that.  They do have lower friction stuff according to the CB thread - people were reading higher chrony values out of PC bullets compared to lubed lead bullets under same charge.  They also showed a PC bullet strike against a metal plate... it didn't do anything fancy or penetrate or anything like that.

So... PC bullets don't run afoul of the federal hand gun bullet limitations.

Just an FYI

[unfy]

Hurry up Dangerous, I wanna hear your take on it .

I'll be going to walmart tonight to pick up some ultra cheap baking sheets to attempt my nose-down jig.... and then casting a bunch of bullets when I get home so that I can continue experimenting tomorrow.

And yes, tomorrow I'll be going to the BH to test fire these things .

[unfy]

First batch loaded.... I must admit it looked weird doing it and it looks weird in the tray

175-185gr of wheel weight lead, powder coated, 6.0gr of unique.

Loaded to jacketed pressures just cause I wanna beat the hell out of it




And now a series of pictures for BK.  In each series (separated by lines) -- First pic = before sizing. Second pic = after sizing.

Didn't knock anything off really.