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When bad guys shoot back
sjwsti:
Everyone remember the old guy in the casino shooting at, and chasing off, a couple of BGs? I took some flak for criticizing his complete focus on shooting with no attempt to use cover, because if the BG shoots back your an easy target. And you should always assume that a BG with a gun will shoot back.
The following video shows the possible consequence of a complete focus on shooting and the abandonment of cover. A lot can be learned from this video. The good guy is an off duty LEO. All three died at the scene.
Things to be learned;
Feign compliance; It looks like the LEO initially tries to leave and is pushed back into the store.
Stealth draw; We all should be practicing this. I see it in a lot of civilian SD shooting videos. The guys that carry without a round chambered, how will you pull this off?
Attack aggressively; 100% commitment. Closes distance to BG for a contact shot. Why? Possibly to avoid hitting the clerk...
Failure to use cover; Sometimes BGs shoot back, even after they have been shot. I was told by a member of the Israeli Yamam, a veteran of numerous firefights, "Always attempt to use cover. Even if cover is not available find something, anything to get behind. You never know what a bullet will do when it hits something. It may be deflected or may be slowed enough that you survive. Very often people will only shoot at what they can see and anything between you and a bullet is better than molecules of air."
I see this a lot in FOF drills, no attempt to use cover or even running away from cover in order to shoot better. It is usually the most experienced shooters with the least amount of tactical training that are the most guilty. When asked why they didnt use cover the answer is always " I didnt think about it, I was completely focused on shooting". How are you training? What are you programming into your subconscious mind?
Single hand point shoot ; This is very common in real gunfights and should be practiced regularly. Every shot fired by both parties were one handed.
Shot BG in high chest; Excellent shot placement, but the BG wasnt impressed. The LEO should have stayed focused on the immediate threat and shot him till he went down, then moved to cover and continued to check him. There are no "one shot stop" guarantees whatever the caliber.
What about a headshot at this distance? Very easy to do and this is the highest percentage stopping shot to use (no guarantees though, I have seen a number of people shot in the face and head who were up and moving) BGs wearing a helmet, shoot through the face piece. Are you prepared to contact shoot someone to the head if you have to?
Sprint to outside bad guy; Why? It looks like motorcycle guy tries to get it in gear and leave on the first shot but the LEO gets on him too fast. Find cover and fight from inside the store if you have to. If the LEO had done that he may have seen that BG #1 was still up and fighting and had a better chance of fighting them both.
- Shawn
bullit:
I agree with your analysis. The one comment/question I have (more rhetorical) is why did the LEO engage? I know I am playing Monday Morning QB, but did not appear he or anyone else in immediate danger in the sense of no shots being fired by BG(s). I would have (I hope/think) gone to cover with my drawn firearm and observed until they were gone or forced to fire i.e. they start shooting. Tough call in that regard. Otherwise, as I said, like your analysis. Sphincter tightening moment to say the least particularly as early in the evening as the time stamp indicates.
sjwsti:
--- Quote from: bullit on April 16, 2013, 02:10:53 PM ---I agree with your analysis. The one comment/question I have (more rhetorical) is why did the LEO engage?
--- End quote ---
Cant be 100% sure but this did happen in Brazil. Having met a former LEO from there he stated that the criminal element that operates in Brazil is extremely violent. Maybe he believed that they would start shooting anyway and decided to go on the offensive. The former LEO also stated that if you are off duty and are found out by these guys they will kill you on sight or kidnap you and burn you alive. He said he was in gunfights nearly everyday. He had finally had enough, came to America and was driving a truck for a living.
- Shawn
GreyGeek:
The video certainly answers the question of "knock down power". There's next to none. Just poking holes and bleeding. It appears that the LEO assumed the first person he shot was out of the engagement and ignored him from then on. Fatal mistake.
That video also exemplifies why I don't consider my concealed carry weapon a permit to be used for law enforcement or for the deterrence or apprehension of criminals. Property can be replaced, and that's what insurance is for.
It's different when someone is wanting to hurt you personally, and in your own defense one shot is not enough.
Lorimor:
You can perform magnificently and still get killed. -- Clint Smith
People tend to shoot you because you let them see you. -- Clint Smith
Want my wallet? Here. Want the keys to the car? Here. Want my wife? Now it's going to get loud. -- Clint Smith
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