General Categories > Carry Issues
Pulled over by Nebraska State Patrol
rudy:
IANAL, but I would consider the LEO running the serial number of your pistol to be in a grey area. I think it is an illegal search under the 4th amendment, but there could be an argument made that the serial number of the firearm was in "plain view" (depending on its location, of course--a s&w revolver with stocks over the butt would preclude this) and would thereby be fair game for a check through the database.
As established by RRS 29-829, a LEO can take possession of a firearm during questioning, the line, I think, is whether or not reading the serial number constitutes an additional search. In the case of Arizona v. Hicks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_v._Hicks), LEOs entered an apartment after a shooting and saw expensive stereo equipment. One of the officers moved the stereo equipment to find the serial number and record it. The stereo was stolen, but the evidence was thrown out because it was an illegal search. The officer's entry into the apartment was lawful given the emergency presented by the shooting, but the Supreme Court ruled that moving the stereo equipment to find the serial number was an additional and illegal search as there was no warrant and the search of the stereo was unrelated to the reason for which the police were present.
There is a thread on another forum on which a poster suggested placing black tape over the serial number so that it would no longer be in plain view. He went so far as to contact the BATF to make sure that placing black tape over the serial number wouldn't be considered defacing, removing or altering the serial number, which would be in violation of federal law. The BATF responded that black tape over the serial number would not be a violation of federal law. http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/general-firearm-discussion/148688-placing-black-tape-over-serial-number-federal-violation-print.html
Ultimately, i think the question is whether or not the serial number being in plain view constitutes an additional search or not. I guess you could place black tape over the serial, and if it is removed, try to be a test case?
just_me_mongo:
To quote Sidearm1:
" 'I know I shouldn't but:
29-829 the pertinent section: 'If the peace officer finds such a weapon or any other thing the possession of which may constitute a crime, he may take and keep it until the completion of questioning, at which time he shall either return it, if lawfully possessed, or arrest such person. For purposes of this section, peace officer shall include credentialed conservation officers of the Game and Parks Commission.' "
This is a good point that Sidearm1 brings up. Let me refer to this specific section:
If the peace officer finds such a weapon or any other thing the possession of which may constitute a crime...
He was pulled over for a license plate issue = traffic infraction.
Open carry = legal in the state of NE (not legal in certain cities in NE)
There was no crime - no crime had taken place.
My belief is that the LEO had no cause/right/reason to run the serial number.
Again, I think is a valid point that Sidearm1 brings up. I am not a lawyer but I am just reading it for what I see.
Bucket:
Anyone have any LEO contacts? I'm sure the procedures differ between jurisdictions, but I'd be curious to see if any Police departments and Sheriffs have any published guidelines, procedures, or specific training on an issue like this.
That's not to say the procedures would be constitutionally sound, but it makes me wonder if the guy was acting as he was trained or working under his own initiative.
2guns:
I think the guy was just being big bad Barney fife. I did call the state patrol head quarters and complain but I'm sure that got filed in the trash. We do however learn from these experiences and begin to flex our constitutional rights. I'm just saying more of us need to do it so Leo don't even give that firearm on the dash a second thought, I know the game wardens that have checked me for fishing license have never asked about my firearm while fishing in July. That's the way it should be!
shovelhead69:
You have committed no crime by open carrying in your vehicle and contrary to the "reasonable suspicion or probable cause" comment owning/possessing a firearm is NOT RS or PC! Therefore no he should not have ran the serial number but makes me wonder exactly how you worded the custody of your firearm to him?Yes, some depts have a database that they record all contacted serial numbers and attach to each individual's log. Black tape over serial number is legal and not PC RS.
A police officer will do any and all things with or without your help to make an arrest and generate revenue.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version