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Marc MacYoung on training

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JTH:
I'll give a better response when I have more time, but for now I wanted to respond to this point:


--- Quote from: AAllen on April 29, 2013, 01:47:17 PM --- I also agree that sparring does nothing to test the real use of power being delivered on target in martial arts, but does using the race guns truly test the students reactions with a common self defense firearm. 

--- End quote ---

You know, I hear that type of comment all the time, and I don't really understand it.  I mean, I know that some people DO shoot tricked-out raceguns in USPSA competitions...but:

The PRODUCTION division is not only the fastest growing division nationally, it happens to be the one of the (continually) largest divisions locally.  And in Production, we don't use raceguns.  Matter of fact, on a local level, most people use stock full-size duty pistols.  (We aren't ALLOWED to use raceguns.  Nor are we allowed to use race holsters.)

Yes, some people fiddle with them a bit more than simply leaving them stock--but there is a limit on what can be done in this division.  As an example---my carry gun IS a former competition gun of mine.  I used to shoot a Gen 4 G17 in Production division, and for that I just changed out the sights, smoothed the trigger out (both things that everyone should do with their Glock no matter how you plan to use it because the stock sights suck and the trigger needs work) and changed out the recoil spring for one that made it shoot flatter. 

That's it.  And you know what?  Works great for self-defense AND competition.  Won 1st Master at several major matches with it in competition.  Just as reliable for daily carry.

So, please, folks--don't give me the "but race gun!" excuse.  You don't have to shoot a race gun.  If you do---have fun!  You know, for driving, some people like to drag race instead of road rally---I don't believe we tell those people that it'll harm their defensive driving capability, do we?  It just doesn't add to it.  Race guns don't hurt anything, as long as you also practice with your defensive choice of weapon.

As for Production division--I currently shoot a G34 in competition.  Perfectly good home defense gun.  (A bit too long for me to carry.)  Changed out the sights, smoothed the trigger, different recoil spring---just like my carry gun.  (I did put in a KKM barrel because the Glock factory barrel wasn't grouping small enough at 50 yards, and it made a significant difference in accuracy, but that isn't going to change the reliability with factory defense ammo, and doesn't make it any different for self-defense purposes.)

Don't tell me that I'm shooting a competition race gun, and that it won't prepare me for shooting a "real defense weapon".   This is a real defense weapon---and competition tests my shooting skills with it.

Doesn't EVERYONE change out their Glock sights?  If not, why not?  Do you like having plastic sights that shear off given minimal trauma, and a rear sight that slides to the side if you bash it on something, and that isn't tough enough to use to rack the slide? 

Doesn't everyone smooth out their trigger?  WHY NOT?  The stock Glock trigger pretty much sucks.  Sure, you can shoot it decently--but give it the 25-cent trigger job and a minus connector, and it'll feel like a completely different gun, which you WILL be able to shoot more accurately.  And don't tell me "the minus connector makes it into a hair trigger!" ---seriously?!  No, it doesn't.  Put it on a trigger scale sometime.  It brings it down to 4 or 4.5 pounds.  This is a perfectly decent self-defense trigger, and you will be able to shoot it better.

THIS is a racegun:


Here is what *I* shoot:


(I'm wearing my multigun gear, so ignore the AR mag and the basepads on the pistol mags.  In Production division, we shoot with standard magazines.)

AAllen:
I'm sorry I think my comment was taken a little more broad than it was meant to be, yes many people compete with normal self defense guns and can be quite successful.  But there are also people in martial arts that study in a self defense based system that go to tournaments and are also very successful.  It's not because the system is necessarily so great, its because the trainer teaches fundamentals and how to build upon that.  A good instructor and lots of practice makes the shooter and the martial artist better in self defense and in competition.

JTH:

--- Quote from: AAllen on April 30, 2013, 08:20:45 AM ---I'm sorry I think my comment was taken a little more broad than it was meant to be, yes many people compete with normal self defense guns and can be quite successful.  But there are also people in martial arts that study in a self defense based system that go to tournaments and are also very successful.  It's not because the system is necessarily so great, its because the trainer teaches fundamentals and how to build upon that.  A good instructor and lots of practice makes the shooter and the martial artist better in self defense and in competition.

--- End quote ---

No argument with the point in italics.  However, the original contention was that competition shooting was just like competition martial arts, and my point was that there was a significant difference---specifically, that competitions in martial arts do not test all fundamentals (the specific example I gave was power) and that competition shooting DOES test all fundamental shooting skills.

That isn't a function of the instructor.  And while students who learn martial arts from good instructors can also do well in point-sparring tournaments, that isn't a function of the tournament--that is a function of how the individual practices. (After all, a person can do very well in a point-sparring tournament without good fundamentals, too.)

In a similar fashion, for shooting, how the person practices will be the determining factor.  Except the main difference is that in competition shooting, you still have to have good fundamentals to do well.  If you don't have good fundamentals, your scores will show that directly.

I also note that "yes many people compete with normal self defense guns and can be quite successful" while true, it is a little misleading.  It makes it seem as if people compete with normal guns against raceguns, and they can still do all right---and what is actually true is that there is an entire division devoted specifically to full-size duty pistols who compete solely against each other.

In other words---people who dismiss competitions because people are supposedly using raceguns are dismissing the second-largest division in USPSA.  And in Nebraska.  (Some days, Limited has more people, some days, Production has more people.  Limited has the edge slightly, but not always.)

In terms of people who are classified (meaning they shoot fairly regularly in that division, on average), here is what it looks like both on a National and on a local level:


The extreme racegun division (Open) is quite a bit smaller than the Production division.  (Single Stack isn't included because USPSA doesn't have records by state for that division, for some weird reason.  Nationally, Single Stack is at 12%, and locally is it probably similar--between revolver and L-10.)

So---in many martial arts competitions, not all technique fundamentals are tested.  In a shooting competition, all shooting fundamentals ARE tested--and for many people, they are tested using perfectly normal duty/carry weapons.

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