General Categories > Carry Issues
Carry options for my 18 year old heading to UNL
XDHusker:
--- Quote from: Mudinyeri on May 21, 2013, 02:19:17 PM ---A non-fixed-blade knife is a fairly poor defensive tool, IMO. Very slow to deploy when compared to a fixed blade knife.
Here's a video featuring the Ka-Bar TDI knife that demonstrates the difference in deployment time between folding (auto or assisted opening) knives and the Ka-bar TDI (skip to about 5:44 for the comparison):
I'm not trying to sell anyone on the Ka-bar, but one of the nice things about it is that the blade is short enough that it's not considered a knife based on many municipal codes. [Australian accent] That's not a knife! [/Australian accent] Other, similar short-bladed knives would have the same advantage.
--- End quote ---
I'm with you. I found the Emerson Super Karambit to be the ideal middle ground. I can draw it fully open faster than any fixed blade. I love it for the retention and speed of deployment. Oh and that it's 3.4" so it's not really a "knife". I have a spring assisted SOG Tanto knife as well but it's borderline over 3.5" and much slower to deploy so I rarely carry it.
JTH:
--- Quote from: XDHusker on May 21, 2013, 08:27:55 AM ---My 18 year old son is graduating this week and he knows that I take our family security very seriously and typically have several options within reach.
[snip]
So my question to you guys is, what legal options does he have off campus and what options does he have on campus when he goes down to Lincoln this fall?
[snip]
--- End quote ---
Just a couple of comments based on personal opinion, so feel free to ignore the following. :)
Effectively, if you can't carry a gun, your defense tool choices basically come down to the following categories:
* knife/stabbing object (tac pen, etc)
* flashlight/hand weight/kubaton
* stun gun
* pepper spray
* useless nuisance items like whistles and noisemakers (I'm not going to even bother talking about these)
* comm devices
According to the law, a knife is a lethal-force-level object. As such, if you draw a knife, it is treated the same as drawing a pistol. If you use a knife, it is treated as a lethal-force response, just as if you shot a pistol.
Many people think that a knife is a lower-level response than a gun---but it isn't. So, when thinking about self-defense items and how they are used, that's rather important to know.
If you stab someone with a tactical pen, expect it to be considered a lethal-level response, considering the "stab" part of that sentence, the marketing associated with "tactical pens", and the current legal definition of "concealed weapon".
Knives, kubatons, and stun guns all require you to be within contact distance of your assailant. Stun guns in particular require you to STAY in contact with your assailant for prolonged periods of time, which generally doesn't work hardly at all in actual self-defense. (There is a reason why cops like Tasers a lot more than stun guns. And they tend to only use the contact application of the Taser when several other cops are holding down the bad guy.)
Don't bother with stun guns. Unless you manage to get directly on the central nervous system, it may not effect the assailant enough. (Yes, it'll lock the muscles in an arm--but if the person doesn't care, they do still have another arm, and if they hit you and your stun gun is no longer in contact with them, then they are back to full usage of both arms.) Heavy coats, people moving, etc---stun guns just aren't much good.
Knives really suck as self-defense weapons. Knives do NOT stop people quickly unless you cause huge amounts of blood loss incredibly quickly (along the lines of cutting multiple arteries simultaneously), knives require you to be in contact range but in general cannot be used to block incoming offensive techniques, and most "knife defense classes" teach knife dueling not self-defense, which is a great way to get 10-20 years in prison. And unless you have been practicing your draw (just like with a gun) accessing a knife under stress is difficult, and takes time. Generally, it takes carrying a dedicated self-defense knife (normally fixed-blade, belt-carried, short blade for legality) and practicing with it to actually be able to use it effectively for self-defense in public.
This is similar to pocket carry for guns. If you pocket carry, chances are your draw is measured in a not-small number of seconds. This means that in a vast majority of situations you will not have time to access your weapon.
Most people won't acknowledge the above, because "I've always carried this way, and it has always worked for me" where the phrase "worked for me" means "nothing has ever happened to me."
That is called talisman thinking, and I strongly suggest people knock it off. Having a self-defense tool does not magically create a force field that keeps bad guys away. HAVING THE TOOL doesn't reduce your chances of assault at all. However, since the chances of getting attacked ARE really small, many people carry various self-defense tools in non-optimum ways with non-realistic training and expectations, and it works completely well for them, because they never get attacked.
This doesn't mean it is a bright idea.
So please bear this in mind for other self-defense tools, too. Having a knife doesn't reduce your chances of being attacked. And just like a gun, it is a lethal-force response, but worse than a gun, it will require you to close with an attacker and be at contact range, where said tool will NOT cause quick incapacitation from a physical perspective.
And that is if you are actually trained in its use. (For example, stabbing tends to be more lethal, BUT slower to stop someone. Slashing someone 15 times in a series as taught in many self-defense classes is a great way to make sure you go to jail.)
Kubatons and other hand-weight items (yes, I know kubatons can be used for more than that) are often carried by people who think "I don't need to know any additional technique, they just make my normal punches much stronger!" ---which is true. Of course, that also means that 1) you have to know how to actually punch, 2) you have to be able to punch, and 3) your punches have to actually connect. All of that means that if you don't have any self-defense technique (empty hand) then hand-weight items won't really be of much use.
And no, most people DON'T know how to throw a punch. (And please, nobody tell me that you do because you've gotten into fights before. Just---don't.)
Out of the entire list of common self-defense tools that are available, in my opinion there are really only three things that will be potentially of actual use to most people: a flashlight, a cell phone, and pepper spray.
And the good thing is that since most people won't ever need self-defense items, people will STILL carry those things because two out of the three are extremely useful all of the time.
1) A small, hand-weight-able tac light (90-150 lumens, make sure it is LED) is cheap, tough, easy to find, if you lose it or break it you can buy another and it is no big deal. If you want to spend more, go right ahead, there are some incredibly bright ones with all sorts of bells and whistles out there, but it isn't necessary.
If you carry a flashlight, you'll find it is handy all the time. And if you need to light someone up you can do it, and once you shine the light in their eyes you can follow it up by bashing them in the face with the bezel. (Everyone can swing a hammer---and the movement is just the same. No extra training needed.)
2) Everyone should always have a cell phone on them. Not so they can text everyone all the time, and not so they can can keep checking their email---but so they can communicate in emergencies. Everyone should always have a charged cell phone on them.
3) And pepper spray? Is an extremely limited-use item, that is really only useful in a limited set of circumstances. However, it is also the only distance weapon out of the set, is legally NOT lethal force, can be used on humans and animals (yes, I know people are animals too), and if you make a mistake the worst that happens is that you have to stand in the shower for a long time wishing you were dead, but you won't ACTUALLY be dead.
If you buy OC, get two identical canisters, then take one out and PRACTICE with it. Mark eyes and mouth on a tree, then try to hit it. Hit it at greater distances. Hit it while you are moving away. (You should be running away, right? This isn't a fight, it is self-defense.) Learn to spray, not squirt. (It is continuous, not a pump.) Learn how to "paint the face" to cover eyes, nose, and throat. Start with the forehead and paint down. Don't bother with the foams, the "marking dyes" are interesting but pretty much never used, and the canister doesn't have to be large. Don't buy the incredibly small ones because they don't have much in them, and won't shoot much distance. Don't buy the huge canisters because you won't carry them. Pay attention to how much the pressure goes down as you use it. Practice deploying, unlocking (does it have a lock mechanism?) and using the spray. Figure out how you are going to always carry it.
Carry the other one. Periodically (once a month or so) shake it up a bit. (Pepper spray separates over time.) Every year, buy another one that is identical, and use your old one for practice again. Shake the new one, and carry it exactly like you did the old one.
The above is just my opinion. However, I often see people talking about carrying knives, tac pens, stun guns, etc---but they don't know how to use those things, don't know the laws about using those things, and in general, won't be able to use those things effectively for self-defense. (And probably will get themselves in huge amounts of legal trouble, particularly with knives.)
Your milage may vary, of course.
I note that the most important self-defense tool for college students is their BRAIN. (And probably the one they use least.) Don't do stupid things in stupid places with stupid people, pay attention to your surroundings, and don't let "it'll be okay, it is only just this once" let you change your decision-making process. And "running away" and "leaving now" are some of the best self-defense choices out there.
The above paragraph is WAY more important for effective self-defense than the rest of this entire post.
GreyGeek:
--- Quote from: jthhapkido on May 22, 2013, 09:01:21 AM ---Just a couple of comments based on personal opinion
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Excellent comment!
Since I found out last Nov 5th that an insane person I helped convict of murder may (or will) be let out of prison, self-defense has become personal and it is for comments like these that I joined this forum. Before Nov 5th I never gave self-defense or CCW a single thought in my entire 72 years of life. Your post has enlightened me considerable on non-firearm devices.
P.S. -- I reviewed some of your previous posts. You are an instructor, right? Do you offer classes?
OleSharky:
I don't know who you are jthhapkido, but that was a great response, and I'm not easily impressed!
XDHusker:
--- Quote from: jthhapkido on May 22, 2013, 09:01:21 AM ---Out of the entire list of common self-defense tools that are available, in my opinion there are really only three things that will be potentially of actual use to most people: a flashlight, a cell phone, and pepper spray.
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Wow, thank you very much for the detailed response. I'm going to have my son read this tonight. :)
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