General Categories > Carry Issues
Open Carry...*gasp*
MissMichella:
I really appreciate everyone's replies, opinions, and experiences. I'm kind of a nerd about information collecting when I get stuck on a topic...and the first-hand stuff is fantastic. I was super motivated last night and blogged about it. www.thesnarkyowl.blogspot.com :)
Overall, whether someone conceals or open carries, I'm just glad that there are responsible people doing it. Levels the playing field, right?
--- Quote from: jthhapkido on May 27, 2013, 02:02:24 PM ---Just a couple of things to think about, since you asked for opinions... :)
1) I have yet to see any reliable research data showing that criminals are deterred by open carry. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but unlike the fact that there is research showing that criminals are deterred by areas with potentially large number of concealed carry folks, I haven't seen any showing that criminals (upon seeing open carry) are deterred. I have, however, read a number of specific cases (note: those count as anecdotes, not evidence) in which open carry folks were specifically targeted for their guns.
So: I personally have ever seen any research on any particular deterrence effect of open carry. Do you know of some?
--- End quote ---
I like opinions! I could be wrong, but I have a theory on the lack of data showing criminals are deterred by someone open carrying. The data and focus group of this kind of statistical analysis would be difficult to identify and obtain. I highly doubt that a potential offender would report out that they were going to commit a violent crime but chose not to due to seeing someone open carrying. However, from my interactions with a more...ahem...unsavory sort of people, I do know that most of them have a plan set in place before they set out to commit a crime. When there is someone present who is armed, it adds a variable, and most of them wish to carry out their crime without having to factor in that sort of variable. I'm not naive enough to think that there aren't exceptions, but I OC for the most likely situation I might face. I think most potential criminals will choose the easiest target, and with OC, it's clear that I am not. I haven't heard many stories of open carriers being the first to be targeted, but I concur that it could be possible...but not highly likely unless the planned crime was murder. I assume the risk of a murder charge and manhunt would dissuade most criminals who were only planning a robbery or mugging.
You make a lot of great points though. I will have to look into other holster options...mine is not active retention. I own a Glock 19 Gen4...and I have no idea how I would be able to conceal it without putting it in my purse or waddling around with it strapped to my leg. I do have a heightened awareness about people, situations, and space when I carry, though I think most females do even when they aren't! Can't be too careful about the creepers. Haha!
I understand the problem open carrying in Omaha. I work with law enforcement frequently, and I've had some discussions about the city ordinance issue. A lot of the more seasoned officers say that they don't generally stop people who are open carrying because even if they don't have their CHP, the charges usually fall through in court, but that's all hearsay, and I wouldn't risk it.
I think open carry should be done respectfully and responsibly...definitely in a subtle way. It bothers me when people OC to make a scene or have a huge attitude about it because it sheds a negative light on all of us. I OC mostly in Lincoln, though I have in some of the smaller communities in Nebraska and Missouri as well. So far I haven't run into any huge negative reactions, but only time will tell. I recently noticed that when I OC, I unconsciously smile at people more...no more frowning in line at the grocery store!
One last thing...yes, I'm long-winded...A lot of you mentioned the element of surprise that CC gives. I don't see surprise as a defensive tactic. It seems to be more of an offensive move. Honestly, the last thing I would ever want to do is use my weapon on another human being. For that reason, I do not want surprise on my side after a crime is in progress, I'd rather stop it from happening in the first place. If the knowledge that I am armed and aware doesn't deter a criminal from acting, then I have already lost. The only thing I can do at that point is mitigate further harm and end the encounter as swiftly as possible. That's why I want quick and unobstructed access to my firearm. That all being said...I have no problem with those who choose to CC. I think the best option is whatever you are most comfortable with.
unfy:
--- Quote from: MissMichella on June 04, 2013, 12:08:44 PM ---One last thing...yes, I'm long-winded...A lot of you mentioned the element of surprise that CC gives. I don't see surprise as a defensive tactic. It seems to be more of an offensive move.
--- End quote ---
The surprise is in bringing your firearm into action against a hopefully flat footed assailant - thus saving your life (or family's, etc).
ie:
They've made their intent clear.
You have been dismissed as not being a threat / providing resistance.
You draw your weapon and defend yourself, thus the surprise.
Another way of thinking about it - a counter punch when not expected, or in military terms, a surprise / flaked counter attack.
.... not so much as a 'PEKE AH BUH I R FIGYLANDY!' hehe :)
Mudinyeri:
Nice civil discussion of a sometimes divisive topic.
Michelle, here's a video of a fairly slender woman in fairly form-fitting clothing carrying concealed in a CrossBreed SuperTuck (my IWB holster of choice):
In my opinion, if that young lady can carry concealed in those jeans under that "blouse" ... pretty much anyone can carry concealed.
Personally, I mostly carry concealed but occasionally open carry when I feel the circumstances are right, e.g. hunting, hiking, working on the farm, etc. (typically relatively unpopulated areas). Open carrying in a populated area without a retention holster would definitely make me nervous. Then again, I'm kind of a "nervous" person to begin with. I tend to be a little jumpy with my head on a swivel. I'd rate my situational awareness about 100X the average individual - maybe more.
MissMichella:
Okay...did a little checking because I realized I didn't quite know what active vs. passive retention entailed. Apparently I do carry in an active retention holster (at least according to what I googled). Now I know, and knowing is half the battle.
Bucket:
--- Quote from: unfy on June 04, 2013, 02:16:50 PM ---The surprise is in bringing your firearm into action against a hopefully flat footed assailant - thus saving your life (or family's, etc).
ie:
They've made their intent clear.
You have been dismissed as not being a threat / providing resistance.
You draw your weapon and defend yourself, thus the surprise.
Another way of thinking about it - a counter punch when not expected, or in military terms, a surprise / flaked counter attack.
.... not so much as a 'PEKE AH BUH I R FIGYLANDY!' hehe :)
--- End quote ---
Putting things into military terms, there is clearly a school of thought that promotes OC. While CC can obviously be equated to the ability for a surprise counterattack, OC can serve as a deterrent. I think that's the point Michella is making when she points out that no stats exist to estimate the number of acts by BG's were put off by the presence of a firearm.
It's often referred to as the paradox of deterrence. "We spent all this money on xxx (weapons, guards, surveillance, etc) and we've never had an incident so maybe we don't need all that stuff!" In fact, it may be the presence of all the stuff that deterred the BG from acting. Ultimately we'll never know.
For me, open carry brings the risks of hassle that I don't want. I find that sad for a right enshrined in our Bill of Rights, but I also don't have the motivation to be a martyr for the cause. None the less, if OC gives someone peace of mind, then go for it. I find compelling arguments for either method.
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