NSW Police Commissioner warns of dangers of 3D guns

[GreyGeek]

Did the NSW Police Commissioner deliberately overcharge the bullet that was fired so that it would explode, in order to scare his citizens away from downloading and making the weapon?   

Comparing this video with the one made by Cody Wilson it "appears" to me that Cody's shot did not have the bang that the NSW shot has, but that could be due to the placement of the camera and being indoors.   However,  given the current state of development of the Liberator people would be foolish to attempt to fire this gun, IMO.  We'll soon get an idea of the practicality of this weapon by the number of stories we read about its ACTUAL use by people.   My prediction is that except for scare stories like this one, we won't read of an attempt to use the Liberator in a crime, or of someone being injured by playing with one, for a long time, if ever.

[NE Bull]

We could also question the materials used to 'print' the gun.  There would have to be a certain recipe that would hold up better.  (can you run JB Weld thru a print head? ) )
 

[Kendahl]

3D printers are at the same level as home computers were in 1975. Back then, the only programming languages were assembly and BASIC with line numbers. You stored your programs on tape using a portable audio cassette drive. Your input/output device was a teletype that could only do text. No video monitors or disk drives. No internet.

Right now, the only materials available at the hobby level are forms of plastic. The challenge in building a 3D firearm is managing the forces with such a low strength material. Unstressed parts are no problem. In time, stronger materials will be available and the printers will be both better and cheaper. In 1981, an Epson dot matrix printer cost $800. The four color laser printer I bought in 2005 cost only $400 depreciated dollars.

[GreyGeek]

Back then, the only programming languages were assembly and BASIC with line numbers.

I don't doubt your premise that in time technology will improve 3D printers and the printing of firearms to make them both more reliable and cheaper, but the programming language was not a good analogy.  There were LOTS of languages available to what would become known as the "Personal Computer".

I quit teaching to sell PCs in 1980 after building an analog computer in 1974 and buying an Apple ][+ in the summer of 1978.  There were MANY computers in competition around 1975 and many languages available to them.  I played with several  of them and was paid to use a few of them to write software.    Here are some of the more well known languages:
LISP
Fortran
COBOL (yes, it came on a peripheral card! for the 8080 and 6502 buses)
RPG (which accompanied COBOL as a report generator and eventually a language)
C
SmallTalk (I really enjoyed this language but it was more difficult to program for business solutions than BASIC because the object model of programming wasn't yet well defined)
Prolog (similarly, as the first logic programming language it blazed new trails but didn't lead to practical applications in business.  Looking back, it reminds me more of Neural Nets)
Pascal (I LOVED this language and used it to write commercial and for-hire software)
and my all-time favorite programming language:
FORTH

I could write reams about FORTH.   It didn't catch on because too many "programmers" at the time depended on the line numbering system of BASIC to form their logic in a form of top-down programming.  FORTH is a bottom-up, threaded, class actor type language.  VERY powerful, fast and compact.

I learned FORTH from one of the best books on programming languages that I have ever read:
"Starting FORTH" by Leo Brodie.   An online version is here:
http://www.forth.com/starting-forth/

and here is a downloadable PDF of the book:
http://www.wulfden.org/downloads/Forth_Resources/LB__StartingForth.pdf

gForth  is available for free on most Linux distros.

[unfy]

We could also question the materials used to 'print' the gun.  There would have to be a certain recipe that would hold up better.  (can you run JB Weld thru a print head? ) )
 

For plastic extrusion, mostly it's ABS or PLA filament.

There are plunger based extruders that can put out clay and stuff too... so undoubtedly you could rig up a jb weld squirtums.


I'll have to rant again about the stupidity of the 3D gun media / reaction / etc.

The thing aint practical. A plastic gun built up of layers of melted plastic on cold plastic is also not exactly all that safe.  It's also a single shot... which might be fine for squirrels in a rural neighborhood... if it has any accuracy at all that is.

The cost of a 3D printer is between $400 and $800, typically requiring a week of assembly and calibration.  For those prices you can get a great, dependable, well known firearm.

A citizen is allowed to make... something like 10 or 25 guns a year for their own personal use.  A 3D printer doesn't change those laws.  The above numbers apply to long guns, I know for sure ... dunno about pistols.  Can prolly look up the laws relating to AK47 builds from flats that you have to bend / form yourself.

Granted, if you already have a 3d printer, you could build these printed guns relatively inexpensively.  Practicality is again limited ... and I highly doubt any criminal would give these things a second look... let alone someone looking to defend themselves with this thing. 

Owners of existing printers who wish to print these guns for their novelty aspect do need to be aware of firearm manufacturing laws, though.


These things (printable guns) are a complete non-story.

For $50 or less you can probably go to home depot and buy all of the tools and materials needed to make something to fire 22 rounds.  Hell, it sounds like a fun project.  I'll pick it up in a month.

[NENick]

I agree unfy. I think what this really comes down to is that it's the first. Firearms have stepped into a new realm, no matter how rudimentary. Kind of like when we first tied a rock to a stick.

Think about all of the accessories that we can make. Vertical grips, stocks, polymer pistol frames, polymer mags, etc. Maybe I can 3d print hk USP45 mags so that hk can quit screwing me

[Hank]

No rant, but a single word to sum up how I feel about it; Absurd.

[Kendahl]

There were LOTS of languages available to what would become known as the "Personal Computer".

I agree that there were many computer languages available. Offhand, I can think of three more -- APL, PL/1 and Modula. But how many of them would run on an Altair 8800 assembled from a kit in someone's basement?

Altair BASIC was Microsoft's very first commercial product.

[GreyGeek]

I  saw an ad that linked to a site with 3D printing of stainless steel powder that is sintered by lasers into the real metal with all of its properties.
http://www.solidconcepts.com/technologies/direct-metal-laser-sintering-dmls/?gclid=CJrB8eroxbgCFSdk7Aodu0AAIg

Imagine parts of a working gun made directly from sintered stainless steel powder printed by a 3D printer.   Add some springs, screws and small odds and ends and you have a working pistol or rifle with frame, slide, barrel and other parts made from stainless steel.   

I figured that this technology would come but it was already here when this thread was written and the ability pre-dates the single shot plastic gun that made such a stir.    While the technology is costly, it does, if push comes to shove and the government ignores the 2nd Amendment and prohibits all weapons, allow the easy manufacture of high quality weapons with decades of usability.

[unfy]

NASA and most serious 3d fabrication is done via laser & melting metal powder, aye.

Not exactly for home use yet

[AWick]

I think the big issue people have with the (almost) all plastic gun is the fear that it can go through a metal detector without being detected. The irrational part for me was when the TSA recently floated the idea of allowing small knifes back on planes I saw a commentor say, "I didnt get on a plane so I could get stabbed!" I thought to myself, wow, this lady is delusional and that I hope she never gets on a bus, subway, train or goes outside for that matter because they are all FAR more likely to be places where a person is stabbed. Being on a plane also limits the perpetrators chances of escaping so that threat is basically non existent.

[Kendahl]

NASA and most serious 3d fabrication is done via laser & melting metal powder, aye.

Not exactly for home use yet

Emphasis on the "yet".

[JimP]

The guy looks like he si wearing a surplus Wehrmacht uniform..... just sayin ..... hmmmmm ...."Liberator"

..... Irony and all that. .....

[bkoenig]

Emphasis on the "yet".

THIS.

Give it 5-10 years and you'll be able to print anything you want, in steel.  Yes, a sintered metal part in a printed gun won't be as durable as a properly heat treated part, but when you can print a new one in 30 minutes who care.

I really think this technology has the potential to render an awful lot of government bans ineffectual.  Much of the same can be done today with a desktop CNC mill, but 3D printers have the capability of producing much more complex parts.

[Phantom]

Give it 5-10 years and you'll be able to print anything you want, in steel.  Yes, a sintered metal part in a printed gun won't be as durable as a properly heat treated part, but when you can print a new one in 30 minutes who care.

I really think this technology has the potential to render an awful lot of government bans ineffectual.  Much of the same can be done today with a desktop CNC mill, but 3D printers have the capability of producing much more complex parts

Who's to say that in 5-10 years they won't have a way to quench and harden those printed metal parts using a Microwave quencher?

[bkoenig]

Oh, I fully expect that will be possible as well.  Maybe not as soon on consumer grade printers but eventually.

[GreyGeek]

Yes, a sintered metal part in a printed gun won't be as durable as a properly heat treated part, but when you can print a new one in 30 minutes who care.

The ad claims otherwise.  I have no experience with sintered metal or MIM but I can see how the method of melting the metal powder would make little difference in the final  properties.   The ad gives pictures  of parts which are impellers, gears, etc...  Parts which are the focal points of high  torque, stress and strain.

[JimP]

I really think this technology has the potential to render an awful lot of government bans ineffectual.

As if "Government Bans" were really effective on anyone but the really stupid or those who willingly are Law Abiding ..... The only reason the .gov can "govern" is that those "governed" consent to such ........ I'm thinking most are on the verge of "Losing Their Religion" .... and if the Welfare checks ever stop, or even slow down, a solid majority will say "screw it".....

I have no experience with sintered metal

The lockwork of my Colt Trooper is all "sintered iron" and has held up for 30+ years and tens of thousands of rounds .......

[ProtoPatriot]

Has no one seen the 3D printers that use metal for material?

http://www.3dsystems.com/3d-printers/production/spro-125-direct-metal#.UfXkSxcvaBc
http://www.3dsystems.com/3d-printers/production/spro-250-direct-metal#.UfXl1RcvaBc
http://www.3dsystems.com/sites/www.3dsystems.com/files/sPro-125-250-SLM-Direct-Metal.pdf

We can make full 3D printed metal products....the printers are just probably super expensive (have to get a quote just to find out the cost).

There is even a liquid metal that can be printed for flexible metal products being developed for 3D printers.

http://www.engadget.com/2013/07/10/liquid-metal-3d-print-ncsu/

[JimP]

Any decent machine shop and a bit of know how will make better, more useful guns than a 3D printer (for the moment) .....



https://www.northeastshooters.com/xen/threads/diy-shovel-ak-photo-tsunami-warning.179192/