NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
Gear & Equipment => Holsters & Leather Goods => Topic started by: unfy on November 03, 2014, 02:05:50 PM
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This is a call for info and suggestions or something heh. How to knowledge, tips, or "go take stuff to this guy" would all be considered.
I'd prefer tips / suggestions, but an inexpensive "in town guy" is an option :D.
My crossbreed supertuck has problems. The kydex portion is cracked and missing pieces and stuff. Wearing it 16 hours a day and possibly sleeping on it over the years has taken it's toll.
I've repaired it a few times with epoxy, but it's time to actually get it properly fixed. However, the cross breed folks are swamped...
So. I've picked up some Kydex. 0.080". Wow that's way thick heh.
I've got a toaster oven, the materials to make a kydex "press", and a non contact thermometer will be here by the end of the week.
Don't have any rivets, will probably try hobby lobby or michael's to see if they got rivets and setters. Do have eyelet tools... but... I dunno. Rivets sound better. If I can't find any, I'll head back to ebay for stuff :(
The CB plastic part has an exaggerated front sight section that prolly makes it easier to draw / re-holster. I was prolly gonna whittle a dowel or something to replicate it.
I'm not entirely sure how to properly do a "3d" mold like that.... most things that I've seen all discuss 50/50 molds with a parting line etc.
I suppose I can wrap the hot kydex around the firearm a little and trim off excess to get the front sight guide ?
It may not be necessary for the front sight guide to be 3d ? It's not really gonna provide any captive force after all... This sounds like a good first attempt.
Any suggestions in general ?
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Doesn't Crossbreed have a lifetime warranty?
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Doesn't Crossbreed have a lifetime warranty?
Yes, yes they do.
However... See also:
However, the cross breed folks are swamped...
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I have a press ... and probably everything else you need to fix it. Want me to bring the press and my supply bin on the 10th?
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I have a press ... and probably everything else you need to fix it. Want me to bring the press and my supply bin on the 10th?
Wow :D
That's hard to say no to.
I guess so :)
If I happen to attempt it before Monday evening... I'll be sure to send ya a PM or something.
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This video was very helpful when i got into Kydex.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wntntfsrfEQ&list=PL49D80D54C9E9D4B6 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wntntfsrfEQ&list=PL49D80D54C9E9D4B6)
I have made several holsters for myself and some friends. Looked into starting up a small business but started school instead. I have plans on how to build up a press and all that. I use my guns for the molds. GREEN paper tape. Dowls and some paint sticks.
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This video was very helpful when i got into Kydex.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wntntfsrfEQ&list=PL49D80D54C9E9D4B6 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wntntfsrfEQ&list=PL49D80D54C9E9D4B6)
I have made several holsters for myself and some friends. Looked into starting up a small business but started school instead. I have plans on how to build up a press and all that. I use my guns for the molds. GREEN paper tape. Dowls and some paint sticks.
Yeah, that was one of the videos I was gonna base my stuff off of :). A year ago I was starting to look at it and that video is awesome.
Another video ... somewhere ... shows kydex + leather if I recall correctly (it routs out some wood so that the kydex doesn't go "too far").
I bought some relatively stiff kid play floor foam squares a while back for a different clamping / padding need... which would do just fine for kydex stuff :).
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I stopped by Hobby Lobby on way in, the rivets they had were cosmetic.
Someone suggested Michael's ... I'll give them a try tomorrow possibly.
When I walked out of Hobby Lobby I had a thought to myself.
We truly have become a nation of consumers.
Even HL has mostly just prefabricated things folks mix together to make a creation.
Plenty of the things required to do it yourself from scratch are almost prohibitively expensive if they can be found.
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I stopped by Hobby Lobby on way in, the rivets they had were cosmetic.
Someone suggested Michael's ... I'll give them a try tomorrow possibly.
When I walked out of Hobby Lobby I had a thought to myself.
We truly have become a nation of consumers.
Even HL has mostly just prefabricated things folks mix together to make a creation.
Plenty of the things required to do it yourself from scratch are almost prohibitively expensive if they can be found.
I have rivets and Chicago screws.
If you have time to run around to all the hobby stores, just come by Handyman Joes. I'll toss my supplies and press in my vehicle tomorrow.
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Tandy Leather on 84th and Center has different rivets and Chicago screws.
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Wait
Tandy Leather is LOCAL ?
Or just has a bunch of stores nation wide ?
I've been on their site a few times etc...
Oh, nation wide.
Still -- I'll head up there tomorrow! :D
Thanks sparky.
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Just got into doing some leatherwork. Got some tools from Hobby stores and Michaels, then stumbled on Tandy Leather on 84 and Center. Went over and was quite impressed with their selection of both leathercraft tools and leather hides. Good place to get items to make or repair a holster, belt or whatever.
I do not work there or have any financial interest, just was impressed with what they had.
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I have rivets and Chicago screws.
If you have time to run around to all the hobby stores, just come by Handyman Joes. I'll toss my supplies and press in my vehicle tomorrow.
Well, I've not formed the Kydex yet ... soooo... heh.
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Stopped by Tandy Leather on 84th and Center as per sparky and wcr's suggestion.. They've got just about anything leather tooling related you could prolly want. Dunno about the big boy arbor style press stuff... but they do have a lot. They were nice and helpful folks, too. They also happen to have instructional packs on making kydex holsters :).
Grabbed a small rivet tool set / starter pack thing for $14. I'll grab a steel plate or a some marble or something from somewhere as a working surface.
I'll admit to being a bit nervous about the rivets, I dunno if they're sturdy enough structurally or not. They prolly are... but, just an first impression. The online store also happens to sell chicago screws, dunno about the local one - but it'd be hard to imagine not having it.
Would taking this all to someone that knows better and has a lot of experience be the way to go - such as midwest leather works etc ? Oh yes.
Am I just insistent on getting my hands dirty ? Oh yes.
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Shoot me a PM if you need anything.
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I learned a fair bit Sunday night as I fiddled with kydex.
Ended up standing on my pistol 4 times for about 45min in total.
I think I've got it molded. Need to grab a heat gun and do...... something... to it. Basically -- because it was formed with a piece of foam under the pistol -- if I have the pistol in the kydex and try to lay it on a flat surface, the kydex doesn't rest flat on the flat surface, it's elevated an 1/8th an inch or so.
I suppose I could cut a couple strips of kydex to put under the molded section to act as a spacers, I dunno.
I'll ask folks at the reloading clinic for thoughts.
Otherwise, I'm pretty happy with how things turned out and look forward to posting the series of pics I took.
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Mud was indeed very helpful in suggestions, I learned a good bit from our short talk.
Decided to try reforming the kydex yet again. The current piece just doesn't quite line up with the existing leather holes.
Being unnerved about standing on my pistol enough as is, decided to build a kydex press this go around. Going with a double clamp version instead of a hinged style. Also picked up some different foam to use.
A decent starting premise of the press would be something like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2LaLh3vEJw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2LaLh3vEJw)
My primary change at the moment will be some extra wood to keep the clamps a bit more captive (as well as different style clamps). Cost me about $55 in supplies ... of which I didn't need all necessarily (had some of it already.. but... whatever). The clamps can easily be the most expensive part.
I went with either 24 or 36 inch toolshop quick clamps. I didn't have a pair yet, so it's nice to have for other reasons as well. "Real" clamps (properly branded) would have pushed the cost to $75 easily, possibly $100.
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This was adapted from what I wrote elsewhere, hence the weird tenses etc. Also, my web host appears to be acting funny lately...
(http://www.unfy.org/pmwiki/uploads/Ramblings/cb-kydex4.jpg)
Yeah, it needs to be replaced.
Looking at the CB Kydex, I'd assume they're using a vacuum forming machine. I'll just be going the foam route. The back of their Kydex shows some identification markings and stuff, too:
(http://www.unfy.org/pmwiki/uploads/Ramblings/cb-kydex5.jpg)
Tooling for my initial outset were:
* couple 2 foot lengths of 2x8's as the press top and bottom
* some foam play mat things ($9)
* some eggshell / bed padding foam ($9?)
* fabric markeng pencil ($1)
* cutting mat ($10, fabric area)
* razor blade knife
* non contact thermometer ($15)
* some 2" masking tape
* a flat head screw driver
* toaster oven used only for "shop" things (never food)
* hair dryer (leery of heat gun + firearm)
* gloves (don't have to be real thick)
* Kydex itself (I bought 0.080, the CB might be 0.060)
All of the above can be bought locally. The thermometer might cost ya $35 instead. And the Kydex is available at Tandy Leather, as well.
(http://www.unfy.org/pmwiki/uploads/Ramblings/cb-kydex-tools1.jpg)
(http://www.unfy.org/pmwiki/uploads/Ramblings/cb-kybex-playmat.jpg)
(http://www.unfy.org/pmwiki/uploads/Ramblings/cb-kydex-bedding-foam.jpg)
Most Kydex forming presses / foam is a closed cell stiffer foam. I didn't have any on hand and my first attempt at finding anything failed. So I decided that maybe stacking up a lot of layers of bedding foam would work.
I had the foam play mat things for a different project - they're a great source of some stiff protective foam, but are too stiff to form around the pistol. They could, however, act as a protective barrier to help not damage the firearm with the pressure I was about to submit it to... because, since I lacked a press, I was going to be standing on my firearm.
The sandwich would look like:
Me Standing
wood
playmat
6-8 layers bedding foam
Kydex
pistol
playmat
wood
ground
If ya look at the CB Kydex, you'll see it has an angled channel for the front sight and stuff:
(http://www.unfy.org/pmwiki/uploads/Ramblings/cb-kydex1.jpg)
In order to approximate this, I decided to tape a flat head screw driver to my pistol:
(http://www.unfy.org/pmwiki/uploads/Ramblings/cb-kydex-screwdriver.jpg)
The steps were as laid out in the video. Slowly heat the Kydex in the toaster oven, bumping the temperature knob up 50 degrees every 5min until it hit 250F. At that point, started hitting the firearm and foams with the hair dryer. At 350F, placed the kydex on the firearm, covered with foam and wood, stand on it for 10min.
Standing on a firearm sandwiched between wood is an interesting experience. I don't really suggest it. Oh, and do make sure the firearm is unloaded, but do have an empty magazine in the mag well to add support to it and not crush it.
This worked surprisingly well even if a bit crude. Sadly, the bedding foam wasn't really rigid enough to force the Kydex around the edge of the firearm. The CB Kydex clings to the firearm, and the attaching rivets are placed relatively close to the firearm.
Here's the CB Kydex looking at it head on, note the sharp edges where it flattens out to rest against the leather:
(http://www.unfy.org/pmwiki/uploads/Ramblings/cb-kydex2.jpg)
Here's what my initial attempt looked like, also note how the sight channel wasn't really a channel:
(http://www.unfy.org/pmwiki/uploads/Ramblings/cb-kydex6.jpg)
To address this, I figure'd try cutting out the form of my pistol in the thicker play mat foam and use it to "force" the Kydex the shape to the pistol better. The bottom / trigger guard portion of the firearm was just a straight forward template / stencil cut out.
The slide / sight side of the firearm posed a a bit more of a challenge in that I appeared to need to really get a proper "channel" for retention strength as well as the rivet holes in the leather. Simply butting the play mat foam up against the firearm would not accomplish.
I figured out I could lay my razor blade knife on it's side and run the play mat along the cutting edge to fillet the play mat to a much thinner thickness. This thickness seemed about right for "jamming" the play mat against the hot Kydex to slide it under the screwdriver. I also cut the corners away to avoid alignment problems.
(http://www.unfy.org/pmwiki/uploads/Ramblings/cb-kydex-gun-and-foam.jpg)
Process this time around was:
* heated up a piece of Kydex
* slapped it on the gun
* pressed down the trigger guard foam
* pulled the Kydex a bit to take out some of the slack
* jammed the slide / sight foam on top of the kydex but under the screw driver
* put on the bedding foam / play mat / wood
* stood for another 10 min
The results were pretty good:
(http://www.unfy.org/pmwiki/uploads/Ramblings/cb-kydex-as-pressed.jpg)
And the edges were better:
(http://www.unfy.org/pmwiki/uploads/Ramblings/cb-kybex-better-edges.jpg)
The trigger guard area aint perfect, but it's not too bad. It's also a bit further beyond the mag well than the markings for the CB was.
The problem that soon became apparent was that because I had the firearm resting on some of the play mat foam - the Kydex formed to the elevated level of the play mat.
As seen here, it's lifted off the flat survace a bit on each side:
(http://www.unfy.org/pmwiki/uploads/Ramblings/cb-kydex-good-fit-but-not-flush.jpg)
The CB Kydex on the other hand, is flush:
(http://www.unfy.org/pmwiki/uploads/Ramblings/cb-kydex-on-gun-flush.jpg)
I appeared to have a new Kydex piece!
Appeared to have it, but I still can't quite get the rivet holes to line up.
I'll be making the press over this weekend and hopefully attempting again Sunday or Monday night.
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Looks good! And congrats on a fun diy project.
Menards has a good ~2" thick green foam "seat" pad by their hunting gear that I've used with good success. Also, TexasKnife.com has foam sheets that work really well with kydex.
http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/index.php?cPath=49_37_125_928 (http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/index.php?cPath=49_37_125_928)
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A link to the Menards foam:
http://www.menards.com/main/outdoors/outdoor-recreation/hunting-equipment/tree-stands-blinds/hunting-seat-cushion/p-2180556-c-13885.htm (http://www.menards.com/main/outdoors/outdoor-recreation/hunting-equipment/tree-stands-blinds/hunting-seat-cushion/p-2180556-c-13885.htm)
I should get the press together tonight, and possibly doing attempts. We'll see.
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Lookin' good!
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Again, this was written for someplace else...
(http://www.unfy.org/pmwiki/uploads/Ramblings/cb-kydex-b2.jpg)
So, I've got something workable. Yay!
I made a press that generally follows the idea set forth in the youtube video I had mentioned earlier:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2LaLh3vEJw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2LaLh3vEJw)
For foam, I bought a couple hunting seat cushion things. They're closed cell foam, 1.5" thick, and not bad on price ($5, that link again is:)
http://www.menards.com/main/outdoors/outdoor-recreation/hunting-equipment/tree-stands-blinds/hunting-seat-cushion/p-2180556-c-13885.htm (http://www.menards.com/main/outdoors/outdoor-recreation/hunting-equipment/tree-stands-blinds/hunting-seat-cushion/p-2180556-c-13885.htm)
I didn't drill holes for zip ties but instead glued and screwed in some 1x4 scrap to keep the clamp holstered underneath the press. Does it really work for keeping the press "ready to go" ? No. Does it make alignment a breeze ? Yes.
Note, I used some the cheaper clamps (tool shop brand). One of the clamps didn't want to hold at at high pressure and kept slipping a bit.... so ... I ended up sitting/standing on my press / gun yet again (facepalm):
http://www.menards.com/main/tools-hardware/hand-tools/fastening-tools/24-ratcheting-bar-clamp/p-1497908-c-9135.htm (http://www.menards.com/main/tools-hardware/hand-tools/fastening-tools/24-ratcheting-bar-clamp/p-1497908-c-9135.htm)
(http://www.unfy.org/pmwiki/uploads/Ramblings/cb-kydex-foam-and-stuff.jpg)
After one attempt, I noted that things weren't quite working out around the trigger guard. The Kydex wasn't really forming to the outside of the guard very well, leaving things kinda bulbous. I trimmed up the pink hard foam to a bit of a tighter fit and made it twice as thick. You'll also notice a piece of yellow foam up there in an odd shape:
(http://www.unfy.org/pmwiki/uploads/Ramblings/cb-kydex-trigger-guard.jpg)
This fits inside the trigger guard from underneath. It has room for the trigger, and the lower lip is under the trigger guard housing. This accomplishes two things - it stops the kydex from sinking into the trigger guard too far, and it stops the Kydex from folding up under the trigger guard (it extends the trigger guard down to the table). Both of these help to reduce tension a bit without needing to go back later and add relief with a heat gun.
(http://www.unfy.org/pmwiki/uploads/Ramblings/cb-kydex-b1.jpg)
This area (towards the front sight) is really tight. Getting that screw in there and tightening it down was not fun. The shape of the Kydex was drawn with some yellow to help show it.
The skin tone leather is some veg-tan leather. It was originally meant to be a spacer between the Kydex and leather in my previous attempt - but after trying to align the holes in the leather to the Kydex, it was clear that things weren't perfect yet. With the new piece of Kydex, I've gotten it formed 'closer to the table, eliminating the need of the spacer. When assembling everything, I noted that the screw posts were too long to hold the Kydex tightly. With the veg-tan under the Kydex - there wasn't enough retention - so above the Kydex it is!
There's some concern if I needed to treat the veg-tan any so that it won't fall apart upon moisture or something, I dunno. We'll see.
And the back side, if anyone was curious:
(http://www.unfy.org/pmwiki/uploads/Ramblings/cb-kydex-b3.jpg)
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I've not bought the supplies or built it, but Blue Light Tactical folks have some silicone rubber membranes for sale that come with plans on building your own vacuum former for Kydex.
http://www.bluelighttactical.com/2-Silicone-Membranes-for-BLT-II-PVC-DIY-Build-w-free-Plans-BLT2MBR1826-P.htm (http://www.bluelighttactical.com/2-Silicone-Membranes-for-BLT-II-PVC-DIY-Build-w-free-Plans-BLT2MBR1826-P.htm)
They also provide an hour construction video which is interesting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CynKfMMKYi8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CynKfMMKYi8)
I dunno what kind of vacuum stuff is required for all of this, but it doesn't seem unreasonable to be able to use a 5 or 10 gallon portable air tank, a vacuum source (how strong ? i dunno if a shop vac or modified car tire pump can pull enough), and the required valve works in order to make the 'surge tank' they discuss.
They list $200-$250 as the expense of building it. Buying the membranes from them at least once (you get two) just so you get the plans and show support / thanks for the video is wise. The cost of the magnets is... I dunno. That just leaves the vacuum system. The PVC foam filled board ? Cheap.
There are other folks that have done polystyrene vacuum forming with shop vacs, some wood, and some peg board. Something like that might work out for someone just wanting to toy around. I've tried to come up with other uses for vacuum forming - but nothing comes to mind. I'm not in the costume / prop design market - and although it could be useful for, say, the hoppers to hold brass in the auto brass feeder attachments for progressive presses... I'm still at a loss really.