NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
General Categories => General Firearm Discussion => Topic started by: brandingman on August 30, 2013, 02:47:53 PM
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Does anyone know, is the new arena posted or what is their official firearms policy?
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Good question. I'm going to a concert there in a couple of weeks so I'd like to know as well.
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Well it is city of Lincoln property, or is it University of Nebraska property, it does not matter both entities would post it. But if it is considered University property it is most likely considered automatically a no gun zone and they may not post, and you would get caught and the rest well we do not want to here that story.
I would put Pinnacle Bank Arena on the off limits list.
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It is owned by the city of Lincoln, not the University. My reading of the state preemption law is that a city cannot post it's property or ban carry in a facility other than one of those listed in the statutes (law enforcement buildings, court houses, police stations, etc.). Accordingly, I think it should be legal to carry there unless it was being used for what I call a "prohibited purpose" like a university athletic event.
This is, of course, my personal opinion and is worth what you paid for it. So, unless you want to be a test case, don't carry there.
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The area has a dress code, so not only do you have to be worried about what is under your shirt, you have to worry about what is printed on it.
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Im wiring the building across the street. I can check next week. I do know that the parking garage just southwest of the arena is posted.
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The area has a dress code, so not only do you have to be worried about what is under your shirt, you have to worry about what is printed on it.
??? I 'spose you can only wear red?
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Probably more of a no baggy pants, etc rule to keep out the gangbanger wannabes. They did that at the Power & Light district in KC.
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I think he dress code entails - No profanity on clothing, no sleeveless shirts or tank tops, no chain wallets that could be used as a weapon, no exposed underwear. lol
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I think he dress code entails - No profanity on clothing, no sleeveless shirts or tank tops, no chain wallets that could be used as a weapon, no exposed underwear. lol
WOW! Well that would pretty take care of any of my friends going. ;)
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WOW! Well that would pretty take care of any of my friends going. ;)
Which part would stop them? The "No exposed underwear"? ;D
Fly
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I was there two weeks ago for the graduation ceremony, I didn't notice any signs but they also weren't finished with the building.
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Which part would stop them? The "No exposed underwear"? ;D
Fly
Actually, I was thinking everything, but...
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While at the Pinnacle Bank Arena this past weekend, I finally saw where they have a notice of no weapons of any kind (including firearms) are allowed. The posting is in writing (no sign) and is very hard to see, let alone read.
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Does anyone know, is the new arena posted or what is their official firearms policy?
City code. Pinnacle Bank Arena IS a City Facility.
9.36.130 Possession of Firearms and Dangerous Weapons in City and/or
County Facilities; Prohibited.
(a) It shall be unlawful for any person to knowingly possess or cause to be present a
firearm or other dangerous weapon in a city and/or county facility.
(b) This section shall not apply to possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by:
(1) An officer, agent, or employee of a state or a political subdivision thereof who
is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution
of any violation of law, while in the lawful performance of official duties.
(2) Licensed shooting galleries or archeries.
(3) Any range operated, supervised, or maintained by the State of Nebraska or
any political subdivision thereof when in connection with an educational or training program.
(4) Authorized shows, performances and/or exhibitions displaying or using guns
and/or knives. (Ord. 18794 §1; August 21, 2006).
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City codes and ordinances are preempted for valid CHP holders, so only state law applies here. In my opinion conspicuous signage would be required except for school related sports events, political rallies and fundraisers
http://www.sos.ne.gov/rules-and-regs/regsearch/Rules/State_Patrol/Title-272/Chapter-21.pdf
see section 18 for state prohibited places
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City codes and ordinances are preempted for valid CHP holders, so only state law applies here. In my opinion conspicuous signage would be required except for school related sports events, political rallies and fundraisers
http://www.sos.ne.gov/rules-and-regs/regsearch/Rules/State_Patrol/Title-272/Chapter-21.pdf
see section 18 for state prohibited places
Will save you some time Dan. Opinion Jon Bruning 2008
3. It is our opinion that the provision found in § 69-2441(1)(a) of the Concealed Handgun Permit Act that prohibits even permitholders from carrying concealed handguns “into or onto any other place or premises where handguns are prohibited by law, rule or regulation” means that permitholders may not carry concealed handguns in a location “where the simple possession, let alone the carrying of a handgun, is otherwise prohibited.”
AGO Opinion 09001
http://ago.nebraska.gov/ag_opinion_view?oid=4133
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________________________________
3 Were a county, city or village to ban the possession or carrying of handguns throughout its geographical territory, it might run afoul of U.S. Const. amend. II and/or Neb. Const. art. I, § 1. See, District of Columbia v. Heller, __ U.S.__, 128 S.Ct. 2783 (2008) (holding municipal law that totally banned possession of firearms in the home unconstitutional as violative of Second Amendment right “to keep and bear Arms”).
permitholders will not be permitted to carry concealed handguns in or on that place or premises. On the other hand, where there is not and cannot be a valid law or rule or regulation prohibiting handguns, whether concealed or not, from a particular place or premises, then permitholders may carry concealed handguns in that location unless some other exception applies.
Therefore, it is our opinion that the exception contained in § 69-2442(1)(a) of the Concealed Handgun Permit Act barring permitholders from carrying concealed handguns “into or onto any other place or premises where handguns are prohibited by law, rule or regulation” does not grant cities and villages the authority to ban the lawful carrying of concealed handguns by permitholders.
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Taken together, I think those provisions mean that a city cannot outright ban the possession or carrying of concealed handguns within its geographical boundaries. However, it may ban the possession of handguns in certain locations (i.e. the PBA), and if the possession of handguns is prohibited, so too is the carrying of concealed handguns.
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Believe you are correct. As I read the opinion in 3 parts dealing with 3 diffrent scenarios. The city uses that opinion and your interpetations.
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Believe you are correct. As I read the opinion in 3 parts dealing with 3 diffrent scenarios. The city uses that opinion and your interpetations.
So how does your opinion jive with state preemption?
18-1703 Cities and villages shall not have the power to regulate the ownership, possession, or transportation of a concealed handgun, as such ownership, possession, or transportation is authorized under the Concealed Handgun Permit Act,except as expressly provided by state law,and shall not have the power to require registration of a concealed handgun owned, possessed, or transported by a permit holder under the act. Any existing city or village ordinance, permit, or regulation regulating the ownership, possession, or transportation of a concealed handgun, as such ownership, possession, or transportation is authorized underthe act, except as expressly provided under state law, and any existing city or village ordinance, permit, or regulation requiring the registration of a concealed handgun owned, possessed, or transported by a permitholder under the act, is declared to be null and void as against any permit holder possessing a valid permit under the act.
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So how does your opinion jive with state preemption?
From state patrol web site
018.010
A place or premises where the person, persons, entity, or entities in control of the property or employer in control of the property has prohibited permit holders from carrying concealed handguns into or onto the place or premises.
As usual on this site, If someone passes on information garnered from fighting the city of Lincoln on this area due to a city park being built abutting my entire back property line I am told that state law preempts. The City of Lincoln does not share your view and as usual I get chastised. The opinion I stated was given to me by 2 city managers and the City attorney. Just because I was told that I couldnt carry a firearm past my back proprty line legally due to this park means nothing. Also as usual what is written on the web site of the state patrol and the legislature containing the above prohibitation/exception also does not apply to the city of Lincoln or the PBA JPA that controls the PBA cannot do this.
Also as usual you get snippy and lash out at anyone who trys to tell people to proceed with caution on city of lincoln property including parks as this is thier interpretation of the posted statutes. The CHP act will not protect you in the PBA. If you want to push it go ahead and be the guinea pig as I am sure that the NFOA will pay all legal fees and get the ticket or arrest expunged from your record. NOT as Nebraska does not expunge those records.
You should put on the rules that no personal experience on carry issues and regs should not be posted as they are completely inappropriate.
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018.010
A place or premises where the person, persons, entity, or entities in control of the property or employer in control of the property has prohibited permit holders from carrying concealed handguns into or onto the place or premises.
You think this is snippy??? Debate much?
018.01O requires conspicuous signage as I previously stated... see 18.04
City of Lincoln is not the last word on concealed carry law, as Omaha found out the hard way
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Dan, What is state law on signage?
Didnt mean to get your undies all bunched up.
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State law does not mandate a specific requirement for a sign other than that it be conspicuously posted, the Nebraska State Patrol strongly suggests that a standardized format be utilized. The standardized form should contain a four (4) inch circle with a slash covering a handgun and text giving notice that carrying a concealed handgun anywhere on the premises is prohibited. A form will be available on the Nebraska State Patrol website which can be downloaded for printing. The Nebraska State Patrol also strongly recommends that a place or premises wishing to prohibit concealed handguns post the sign at normal eye level at each public entrance to the place or premises. Normal eye level is considered to be between 54” and 66” from the floor.
No state law mandateing a specific sign. Just be conspicuous.
Suggested sign by State Patrol but not required.
Suggested that sign be put at each entrance but not required by law. Sign in lobby and on Internet should comply.
Suggested to be at eye level, but Not required by law.
Since there is no LAW stating what sign, where it has to be posted, size of posting, or anything else. So I guess that by that I could find an employee with a nice ass and put the sign there and just have her walk around the store entrance all day and still be in compliance.
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Didnt mean to get your undies all bunched up.
No undies bunched up here, just a desire to present the laws as written rather than as interpreted by the anti-gun administration that is the City of Lincoln. The City is aware that it's ordinances are in conflict with state law where valid CHP holders are concerned
and yet they attempt to enforce them as if they were not
Chapter 69 Section 2441
69-2441.
Permitholder; locations; restrictions; posting of prohibition; consumption of alcohol; prohibited.
(1)(a) A permit holder may carry a concealed handgun anywhere in Nebraska, Except Any:
1 Police, Sheriff, or Nebraska State Patrol station or office
2 Detention facility, prison, or jail
3 Courtroom or building which contains a courtroom
4Polling place during a bona fide election
5 Meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or other political
subdivision
6 Meeting of the Legislature or a Committee of the Legislature
7 Financial Institution
8 Professional or semiprofessional athletic event
9 building, grounds, vehicle, or sponsored activity or athletic event of any public, private,
denominational, or parochial elementary, vocational, or secondary school, a private postsecondary
career school as defined in section 85-1603, a community college, or a public or private college,junior college, or university
10 Place of worship
11 Hospital, emergency room, or trauma center
12 Political rally or fundraiser
13 Establishment having a license issued under the Nebraska Liquor Control Act that derives over one half of its total income from the sale of alcoholic liquor
14 Place where the possession or carrying of a firearm is prohibited by state or federal law
15 the law in question A place or premises where the person, persons, entity, or entities in control of the property or employer in control of the property has prohibited permit holders from carrying concealed handguns into or onto the place or premises
16 Into or onto any other place or premises where handguns are prohibited by state law.
If a person, persons, entity, or entities in control of the property or an employer in control of the property prohibits a permitholder from carrying a concealed handgun into or onto the place or premises and such place or premises are open to the public, a permitholder does not violate this section unless the person, persons, entity, or entities in control of the property or employer in control of the property has posted conspicuous notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited in or on the place or premises or has made a request, directly or through an authorized representative or management personnel, that the permitholder remove the concealed handgun from the place or premises
Source
Laws 2006, LB 454, § 15;
Laws 2007, LB97, § 1;
Laws 2009, LB430, § 12.
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Thought you wanted to debate?
Nice Democratic end around! Cite the same statutes that I previously quoted. Your argument doest hold up due to the fact that you didnt mention the that there is no specified signage law.
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Your argument doest hold up due to the fact that you didnt mention the that there is no specified signage law.
While there may not be a specific sign requirement concerning size or type of images "conspicuous notice" is required by law and has a legal definition (see definitions 002.013) and the rules and regulations in the administrative code lay out the guidelines to meet the conspicuous notice requirement.
The Administrative Code Title 272 Chapter 21 definitions state:
002.013 "Posted Conspicuous Notice" shall mean a clearly visible sign at each public entrance to a place or premises that clearly state that concealed handguns are not allowed in the place or on the premises. A recommended format for the sign can be found in section 018.04 of these regulations.
Administrative Code Title 272 Chapter 21 regulation 018.05 spells out the "strongly recommended" locations for the signs "at each public entrance" and "at eye level"
State patrol says the following language is required
Carrying a concealed handgun is PROHIBITED in or on this place or premises.
Those in control of this property have prohibited permit holders
from possessing or carrying a concealed handgun on these premises. Unless otherwise authorized by law, violation of this prohibition is a criminal offense.
Posted Pursuant to the Nebraska Revised Statute §69-2441
https://statepatrol.nebraska.gov/vnews/display.v/SEC/Services%7CConcealed%20Carry%20Permits%3E%3EConceal%20Carry%20FAQ#Question:%20%20How%20will%20I%20know%20what%20places%20are%20prohibited?
Question: I have noticed signs on some buildings. Are these the only places I can't carry my concealed handgun?
Answer: No, a sign is not required for places listed in the statute where carrying concealed handguns is prohibited. Individuals, businesses and entities can post their premises if they wish. There is no specific sign required but the Nebraska State Patrol strongly recommends that the standard sign be used for this purpose as it contains the language required by the statutes and it will be readily recognized. The recommended sign can be downloaded from the Nebraska State Patrol website on the Conceal Carry webpage. You can access the Conceal Carry webpage through the NSP homepage.
Question: My place of business wishes to post the premises prohibiting concealed handguns. Where can we get signs to accomplish this?
Answer: The recommended sign can be downloaded from the Nebraska State Patrol website, concealed carry page under forms/documents. There is no specific sign required but the Nebraska State Patrol strongly recommends that the standard sign be used for this purpose as it contains the language necessary and it will be readily recognized.
Question: If my place of business wants to prohibit concealed handguns, do signs have to be placed on the parking lots as well as the buildings?
Answer: Your business should post signs at all public entrances to your building. Permit holders who visit your business do not violate the law by leaving their concealed weapon in their vehicle while visiting your business even if you post your parking lot.
So your assertion "that there is no specified signage law" is simply wrong.
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You just keep going round in circles. Losing this debate arent you.
We ask all guests to arrive early and travel light, as you may be subject to search, which includes metal-detecting hand wands upon entry. For safety reasons, prohibited items include but are not limited to:
Alcohol, drugs, illegal substances or any paraphernalia associated with drug use
Audio/Video recorders, professional cameras, tripods
Cans, bottles, coolers or other similar containers
Fireworks
Flags/Signs with poles
Laser pens/pointers of any type
Noisemakers such as air horns
Outside food or beverages
Oversized bags, backpacks, duffel bag
Pepper spray/Mace
Weapons of any type, including chains, knives, firearms and spiked jewelry
Any other item deemed unacceptable by event/building management
If an item is revealed during a search, patrons may dispose of the item or they may return the item to their vehicle. Pinnacle Bank Arena does not safeguard any personal belongings or items of any type.
So They reserve the right to kick you out before you even enter. That is established law, the right to refuse service to anyone. Go figure. A flat out blanket ban on all weapons they dont want. Took 2 secs of Google Foo to find that on PBA's web site.
City of Lincoln policy
(a) It shall be unlawful for any person to knowingly possess or cause to be present a
firearm or other dangerous weapon in a city and/or county facility.
Seems like another blanket ban and one that has been in place and advertised since 2006 (Ord. 18794 §1; August 21, 2006).
Now I didnt have the money too pay an attorney to sue the city over their policies and /or the exact way that they do things. Until maybe someone like the NFOA can find the gumption and a way to sue the city of lincoln over this its not going to change PERIOD. If you are so right than maybe you should take up the point position on this and file a complaint with the State Patrol or the State Attorney Generals office that they are violating the law. (I can tell you what they will do NOTHING except to get told if you think your rights have been violated then sue. BTDT
All I tried to do is pass on info garnered from a 14 month fight over their policy and as usual someone just jumps in says THATS AGAINST THE LAW, But the city does not share that view and I get chastized by those who say its the law but will do nothing to change how Lincoln interprets it.
So tell the person who believes that ITS THE LAW gets told to walk back 10 or so blocks to lock up his firearm and misses the event they have paid to see just tell them again THATS AGAINST THE LAW.
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You keep circling back to Lincoln policies and ordinances that are clearly preempted by state law.
Can you at least admit that is true?
I am not arguing that anyone blindly follow me, but I feel compelled to correct the record as to Lincoln powers to regulate the ownership, transportation, possession or registration of a handgun carried by a valid concealed handgun permit holder. They have no power to do so.
Lincoln can post their property with "conspicous notice" as legally defined or they can directly notify you at the door ...all in compliance with state law, if they so desire.
When Lincoln attempts to enforce invalid ordinances against a valid CHP holder and a case should present itself, NFOA and The Second Amendment Foundation stand ready to fight and in the mean time NFOA works diligently to extend state wide preemption to all firearms owners
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You keep circling back to Lincoln policies and ordinances that are clearly preempted by state law.
Can you at least admit that is true?
I am not arguing that anyone blindly follow me, but I feel compelled to correct the record as to Lincoln powers to regulate the ownership, transportation, possession or registration of a handgun carried by a valid concealed handgun permit holder. They have no power to do so.
Lincoln can post their property with "conspicous notice" as legally defined or they can directly notify you at the door ...all in compliance with state law, if they so desire.
When Lincoln attempts to enforce invalid ordinances against a valid CHP holder and a case should present itself, NFOA and The Second Amendment Foundation stand ready to fight and in the mean time NFOA works diligently to extend state wide preemption to all firearms owners
Dan that is the ultimate cop out. I am a valid CHP holder and they did try to enforce this on me. You did nothing.
The City of Lincoln does not care. you and nobody eles would help since the 2 attorneys I had talked to gave me little to no chance of winning. My guess is that your attorneys have said the same thing. The City of Lincoln cares less about the 2nd amendment than they do the first.
Case in point
"A federal judge has denied a request to temporarily lift limits on leafleting and other activities outside Pinnacle Bank Arena.
Larry Ball was arrested last year and again in March for handing out religious leaflets there and filed a civil rights lawsuit against the city, the mayor, police chief and arena operator contending the restricted area is public.
Preventing him from leafleting there violates his free speech, he said.
The city says the area is quasi-public and it has the right to limit protests and leafleting there.
Ball had asked the judge to block the city from enforcing its policy while the lawsuit is pending but the judge rejected the request Wednesday, saying Ball has not shown his lawsuit is likely to succeed.
ACLU of Nebraska said it will continue to fight.
"We are disappointed the court failed to grant emergency relief to our client," Executive Director Danielle Conrad said in a statement. "As a result, he and other citizens will face continued risk of criminal prosecution if they engage in peaceful free speech activities in the public space surrounding the Pinnacle Bank Arena."
She also called on Mayor Chris Beutler to help settle the issue, saying the policy has "real and chilling effects" on free speech rights and religious freedom."
End quote
The constitutions First Amendment failed to stop the city from arresting and jailing this man even as he cried how legal it was for him to do this activity. Now you say just because its THE LAW that they cannot and will not enforce their ordnances on me.
Ultimate cop out. Yell its illegal all the way to jail.
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Dan that is the ultimate cop out. I am a valid CHP holder and they did try to enforce this on me. You did nothing.
I was unaware of your case. Can you give me the docket and case number and the charges filed against you so I can forward the information to the NFOA Board ?
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PBA is going to get walk-through metal detectors.
http://journalstar.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/walk-through-metal-detectors-coming-to-pinnacle-bank-arena/article_06a63a5e-8911-5f5a-b708-30b82da99cf3.html
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The do have "no weapons" signs posted at the entrance. Kind of hard to see though. I've tried contacting them a couple times for more info, but they do not return messages.
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Would been a much more useful thread were it not for the douchey behavior and projection which really makes it hard to consume the information. It appears someone is trying to win the internet instead of simply passing information back and forth.
Good on you Dan for maintaining composure and calmness.