NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
General Categories => General Firearm Discussion => Topic started by: HogDog on November 05, 2009, 09:29:21 PM
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This happened a few days ago, but I'm still PO'ed enough I just need to vent. I was stopped for speeding (57 mph in a 50 mph zone). I knew I was and was willing to take my medicine. When the officer - a county deputy - walked up to the truck, I immediately told him I was licensed to carry. Without even getting into the speeding issue, he said "Why are you carrying a gun? Are you expecting trouble"?, in a very smart ass tone. I answered with a simple "No, sir" but his comment struck me so wrong that I turned bright red and could feel my my blood pressure zooming upward. He obviously noticed my reaction and backed up a bit and asked me if I had a problem. Again, a VERY polite "No, sir".
He took my license, etc. and went back to his car for a while, came back and immediately asked me what I was carrying (a Sig P245). His reply: "Awful big gun to carry, isn't it?" I did not reply at all this time; just kept my hands on the wheel. He handed me back all my paperwork, gave me a warning (I thanked him), and it was all over.
I'm a fat old man and certainly don't believe I pose much of a threat to anyone, but feel strongly in my right to legally carry and protect myself and mine. He was in his mid-50's and for the life of me I do not understand why he obviously believed that no one should have a gun but him. This was in rural area and certainly not unusual for guys to carry guns.
I very much support our law enforcement folks, but I sure don't like them having this kind of attitude.
HogDog
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"The old sheriff was attending an awards dinner when a lady commented on his wearing his sidearm.
'Sheriff, I see you have your pistol are you expecting trouble?'
'No ma'am. If I were expecting trouble, I would have brought my rifle."
Sorry Author Unknown
Understand your reason for being pissed off at the Deputy. He must have not been to opposed to CCW or you would have received not only a Speeding Ticket but also a request to hold your firearm while your driver license went through the NICS check.
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You are upset because he stereotyped and made assumptions about you, and you did the exact thing about him. If you review exactly what was said nothing bad or wrong was said but you both assumed you knew how to read between the lines of what the other said.
Without knowing either of you, I am assuming that you both have a chip on your shoulder, so now I am just as guilty.
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I don't take the privilge of the ccw for granted by all accounts we are to be at best law abiding in ALL things while we are carring or not carring and knowing any and all stimiga to those who believe they are the only ones to perform protection for the people can jump to conclusions in and from both parties just look at the Ft. Hood ordeal the media exploits the whole gun issue and the current political party wants any and all things to prove that gun ownership is only required for the trained nationwide or armed forces. I can understand you need to vent but we must also see if from the point of those not envolved your remark of just a f.. old man. It is amazing to have hindsight after the deed is done when we anylaze the matter by saying I would have never thought He/She was capiable of pulling the trigger. Anyone is capiable of evil given the right circiumstances and they justify it by one's selfish desires at the moment. I don't put myself above the thinking never me usually thats when I exploit someone else. And thanks to those who share the trials of their lives in everyday as we walk through this journey called life. Thanks for at least making us aware it is always important to obey the law in all things.
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I did do some some checking and this deputy does indeed have a reputation for strongly believing that only law enforcement folks should have guns. Fortunately (for now), he may not have his wish and God help us if he ever does.
I hope I did not in any way give the impression that I have a problem with LEOs. I do not. I know some cops very well and would not want their job. What I do have a problem with is ANYONE that feels they have more of a right to defend themselves than I do. This guy did. He just happened to be a cop.
The question is, does the LEO while in an official capacity (such as stopping an old fat man for speeding) need to adhere to a different standard than your average citizen who believes the same way?
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I had my first experience with a LEO today after I was pulled over for passing on I-80 in Lincoln, I missed that I was in a section with a solid white line.. Anyway the trooper came up to my car and I let him know that I was a permit holder and that I was carrying. He was very professional, asked for my permit, license, registration and the location of my weapon, which happened to be on in a comparment other than the glove box. He asked me to come to his vehicle. While in his car he asked when I took my training and who my instructor was, seemed more curious than anything. He said that he appreciated the fact that I told him that I was carrying and that he knew that I had a right to carry. He said that he has come across others who didn't disclose that they were carrying right away and that he wished they would just. I told him that I understood his concern and that is the duty of permit holders to immediately disclose to LEO's when officially contacted. Overall my experience with the trooper was very positive.
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Wow Roper, I had a different experience saturday evening.
Got pulled over right where it switches to 65. My buddy has a CCW permit, I do not. My friend tells him he is carrying, and we both got patted down (he copped a feel on the boys), they ran the serial number and searched my truck, too. Real bunch of criminals he pulled over, an FFL dealer and a security alarm technician.
He asked if their were any other weapons in the truck, and I could not honestly tell him yes or no. He was not concerned with my pocket knife, just ran serial number on the gun. He tossed the truck for 5 minutes. I guess I am lucky he didn't take the seats out.
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Hey, LitlRat
Did he ask of he could search you and the truck? Did he tell you why he wanted to search? Did he ask for your friends permit? I don't understand what gave him probable cause to even want to search? It was a traffic stop! Just my opinion he was being a d*ck. ;D What he did would make anybody feel like a criminal or you were at a rest stop. :o Oh, did you get a ticket?
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...damn speeders
::)
;D
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NSP pulled my wife over for speeding some time back. She wasn't carrying but told the officer she had a ccw permit anyway. The officer asked her why she wasn't carrying and gave her a hard time about not being armed. In his own words he couldn't be there for every one and that she was her own best first line of defense. Wish they all felt that way.
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Realuity is that everyone has an opinion on CCW, including LEO's. Be upfront and defend your right to carry if its questioned. But realize that there are a lot of LEO's who support our cause!
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I would think that as CCW owners that we (I don?t have mine yet, got class this weekend) would be hyper-vigilant about the law and if we are breaking one or not. Anyone else feel this way? The last thing I would want is a confrontation, good or bad, with a law enforcement officer, and would go far out of my way to avoid even bending a law when I was carrying.
I work closely with law enforcement in my job, and yes they all have their opinions, but they have a valid concern about the individuals they are dealing with being armed. Not so much the law abiding citizen with a CCW permit specifically, but anyone carrying a weapon. It?s a nervous profession, and all the training and experience in the world just cannot prepare an officer for absolutely every possible situation, which they inevitably will run across sometime in their career.
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IMHO, NSP is a professional organization that, if confronted appropriately by CCW holders will act appropriately.
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Hogdog, "I thanked him". Why? :P
Rat, Why did you consent to a search? Am I missing somethin' here?
I'm against disclosure. If it wasn't law, I wouldn't do it for just these reasons.
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Wow... it must be "pull over a CCW permit carrier" week or something.
I got pulled over last night (sheriff's deputy) coming home from work around 12:15 am. I have a CCW permit, but had the gun in a lock box in the trunk, magazine in the glove box. It was unusual, because I usually do carry when I leave work late (in downtown Omaha). Couldn't really tell you why I wasn't last night.
Deputy came up to the passenger side of the car, I held up my license, registration and insurance card... first question after "good evening, sir" was "do you have a weapon in the vehicle?"... so you can be sure they see that on their screen. And he had EVERY bright light on that car on... it was lit up like a Christmas tree.
I have no problem with any of that. I said, "sorry, should have said that right off the bat. I do, and I do have a CCW permit... the gun in a lock box in the trunk, loaded magazine in the glovebox." I motioned to the open glovebox (it was open since I'd pulled out the registration and insurance card) and he saw the magazine.
He said, "okay, that's fine." I asked if he needed to see my permit, or the gun... he said, "no, as long as it's in the trunk, no big deal."
Took my info back to his car, came back in about 5 minutes with a warning ticket(speeding). Glad I just got the warning, but happier that I did okay in my first LEO encounter with the gun in the car. I thought we both handled it well.
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You were not carrying. You had no duty to inform. You had a duty to answer truthfully when asked if there are firearms in the vehicle, but not to disclose up front. You were transporting, not carrying.
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As I reread the law once stopped by LEO's I MUST INFORM THEM IN FIRST FIRST RESPONSE AND SUBMIT MY THE CCW CARD...regardless of the preceeding transpiring topic of questioning....
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As I reread the law once stopped by LEO's I MUST INFORM THEM IN FIRST FIRST RESPONSE AND SUBMIT MY THE CCW CARD...regardless of the preceeding transpiring topic of questioning....
Yes, if carrying. The post I was responding to had the firearm encased in the trunk. That is not carrying...it is transporting. No duty do disclose; duty to be truthful when asked. Here is the relevant provision:
A permit holder carrying a concealed handgun who is officially contacted by
any peace officer or emergency services personnel must immediately inform
the peace officer or emergency service personnel of the concealed handgun
unless physically unable to do so.
Please note that I am not suggesting anything was wrong or that the person posting should not have responded when asked....clearly he must. I was just pointing out that the poster made no error and need not (in a legal sense) feel the need to apoplogize. I have been stopped with a gaggle of guns in the trunk...securely stored, not carried. If I were asked about firearms the only answer is "yes...securely stored in the trunk". If I am not asked, I have no duty to disclose, and I would not.
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Wow... it must be "pull over a CCW permit carrier" week or something.
I got pulled over last night (sheriff's deputy) coming home from work around 12:15 am. I have a CCW permit, but had the gun in a lock box in the trunk, magazine in the glove box. It was unusual, because I usually do carry when I leave work late (in downtown Omaha). Couldn't really tell you why I wasn't last night.
Deputy came up to the passenger side of the car, I held up my license, registration and insurance card... first question after "good evening, sir" was "do you have a weapon in the vehicle?"... so you can be sure they see that on their screen. And he had EVERY bright light on that car on... it was lit up like a Christmas tree.
I have no problem with any of that. I said, "sorry, should have said that right off the bat. I do, and I do have a CCW permit... the gun in a lock box in the trunk, loaded magazine in the glovebox." I motioned to the open glovebox (it was open since I'd pulled out the registration and insurance card) and he saw the magazine.
He said, "okay, that's fine." I asked if he needed to see my permit, or the gun... he said, "no, as long as it's in the trunk, no big deal."
Took my info back to his car, came back in about 5 minutes with a warning ticket(speeding). Glad I just got the warning, but happier that I did okay in my first LEO encounter with the gun in the car. I thought we both handled it well.
The Deputy likely asks the weapon question up front to anyone.... CCW Permit information is NOT obtained when running license plates, the deputy would have had to have your drivers license and run your name.
When stopped, it is a good idea to put your hands on the steering wheel, inform the officer you are carrying, and let them request the documents. Having your license and permit in hand when the officer comes up to the car is NOT A GOOD IDEA... WHY????? Because you were fumbling around digging in your back pocket, glove box, etc... while the officer was stopped behind you, and he is back there wondering what all your movement is about.
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So, if guns are unloaded and neither it nor ammo are within reach there is no obligation to show your carry permit??
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Here is my two cents worth:
I remember being told I should inform the officer that I have a CCW permit whether I have my handgun with me or not. When he runs my license and discovers I have the permit, he will probably wonder what else I might be keeping from him. I believe it sets the stage for open communication.
I enjoy asking officers what they think about different aspects "carrying" but I don't wait until I get invited to the side of the road. These are really a bunch of great guys doing their job so let's engage them in friendly conversation wherever you can.
I don't have many dollars to spend but I really enjoy picking up the tab of an officers meal when I can...often they eat half price :-)
Wilson
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So, if guns are unloaded and neither it nor ammo are within reach there is no obligation to show your carry permit??
Loaded or unloaded has nothing to do with it in Nebraska.... The NE laws don't say anything about loaded or unloaded status.
If the gun is "on or about your person" meaning if it is somewhere nearby you in the vehicle then you have to inform the officer. If it is locked in the trunk then you would not have to inform them.
You do not have to "SHOW" an officer your concealed carry permit, unless the specifically ask you to do so. You DO HAVE TO TELL THEM THAT YOU ARE CARRYING THOUGH if you have the firearm on or about your person and it is concealed.
I always recommend to people in my concealed carry classes that EVEN IF YOU ARE NOT CARRYING, IT IS VERY WISE TO ADVISE THE OFFICER THAT YOU ARE A PERMIT HOLDER, however you ARE NOT CARRYING at the time. This way they aren't left "wondering" when they run your drivers license. You DO NOT HAVE TO TELL THEM ANYTHING IF YOU ARE NOT CARRYING, but it is wise to do so.
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Tks for the thorough responses. If contacted in an official manner I would simply hand over my permit under current law. However I would support changing the disclosure status to "optional" as well as reducing the permit costs involved or doing away with renewal costs altogether. Baby steps.....
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my luck will require that i have a run-in with a complete douche my first time around. and I most certainly WILL say something stupid.