NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
General Categories => General Firearm Discussion => Topic started by: ILoveCats on September 04, 2015, 12:23:48 PM
-
As a "real guns only have wood stocks and glossy bluing" kind of guy, it pains me to admit this. I handled and shot a friend's AR recently (short barrel so technically an M4 maybe... whatever...) and it was pretty neat. Not a lot of tacticool rails and lights and sirens and stuff stuck all over it; nice and basic. And lighter than I expected. My son just passed his hunter safety and may want to get a deer this year, and I couldn't help but think with it's light weight and adjustable stock, it might not make a bad first deer rifle.
I always thought, nah, that caliber is too light and a hunting with an AR is just kinda ... gauche. Maybe I was wrong. I keep hearing of more and more younguns who do a fine job getting their first deer with that caliber and 'platform'.
So, without getting too much into the discussion of whether the caliber is enough for deer, what do you all think of the new breed of budget ARs that have cropped up in the last couple years? Some co-workers have recently bought the S&W "sports" and Ruger's new budget offering, and seem to like them very much. Are they all they're cracked up to be? Do they typically come with a rifling twist that would work for heavier-bullet loads one would use for game? Any brands to stay away from?
I'm just starting to surf the 'web and read up on all this since I'm not even fully fluent on the difference between 5.56 and .223.
-
Start out 556 is hotter then 223. You can shoot 223 in a 556 chamber but not 556 in a 223 chamber. Then you have 223 wylde that can shoot 556.
The trend right now is going with a 1:9 twist becuase it stablizes the lighter 55 gr bullets. Slowly 1:8 twist is coming popular since it is in the middle of the 1:7 and 1:9. Anything over 64gr is not recommend in a 1:9 but have seen reports that it works. 1:7 twist works for your 70'sgr well.
Quality of rifles vary a lot.... mainly in the trigger and barrel quality. Chrom lined barrels are often bottom barrel any more. Melonite and other coatings are trending to high end. I would guess that the M&P is 1:9 twist possibly same with Ruger(never looked). If you go budget your going to get budget. Is it fun to shoot yes. Will it be minute of dear yes. Will you want to upgrade it more than likely.
-
Thanks. Looked at the Ruger over lunch. Barrel on that was 1:8. The rest seemed to be 1:9. The Ruger was nice but the front sight seemed to be pretty permanently attached, so not sure how that would work with optics.
If you go budget your going to get budget. Is it fun to shoot yes. Will it be minute of dear yes. Will you want to upgrade it more than likely.
Well I figure you can always use a budget AR kicking around, right? That's why this would not be "the kid's deer rifle" but "Dad's rifle that you can borrow 'til you get a job and buy your own gun."
-
1:8 would work great with some TSX bullets.
If it has the standard site post on it that can be removed for a low profile gas block. Ar require a lot more riser then a bolt rifle does. I have never shot a rifle with a iron site and a scope but if you have the scope high enough (1/3 cowitness) because of the focal point the site post disappears. Someone else would have to chime in on that.
-
The DPMS Oracle comes with no sights- "optics ready"
Watch Palmetto State Armory, you can assemble and upper and lower of your choice pretty inexpensively.
-
DEGuns usually have some Oracles in stock and on sale:
http://www.deguns.net/DPMS-Oracle-5-56-AR15-60531-dpms-oracle-for-sale-p/60531.htm (http://www.deguns.net/DPMS-Oracle-5-56-AR15-60531-dpms-oracle-for-sale-p/60531.htm)
Now the AR snobs will balk about DPMS, but frankly, they've been in the game a while and I've never had a problem with any of mine, and one of them as been thru hell (Afghanistan) and back.
-
Congratulations. Not to muddle things for you too much but AR's also come in other (more deer appropriate) calibers too. My current 'go to' deer rifle is a 6.8spc AR (from Palemtto State Armory as mentioned before). It's very accurate and has been quite effective.
-
Congratulations. Not to muddle things for you too much but AR's also come in other (more deer appropriate) calibers too.
Yep! I did at least know that much, and it's kind of the appeal. If I go and buy a youth-size bolt gun, I forever own a youth-size bolt gun. If I buy an AR then I can turn it into a whole lotta things based on the "mission".
(Some web surfing has taught me that if you're going to own an AR you have to grow a goatee and use the words 'mission', 'platform' and 'system' a whole bunch.)
-
+1 on the Palmetto State Armory stuff. They're pretty good quality for the money. Not top of the line, but pretty decent.
-
If you want to make it really special, build the rifle with your son. Then you both get the satisfaction of him taking his first deer with something you built together. Building it yourself also allows you to get the exact rifle parts you want from the start, so in the long run it's cheaper as you are not replacing parts someone else used to build the rifle.
-
If you want to make it really special, build the rifle with your son. Then you both get the satisfaction of him taking his first deer with something you built together. Building it yourself also allows you to get the exact rifle parts you want from the start, so in the long run it's cheaper as you are not replacing parts someone else used to build the rifle.
That's a really great idea. I've certainly got a lot of reading to do about these guns.
-
You don't want an AR. You NEED an AR! And an SBR and can.
Also Labor Day sales are going on now!
-
Goatee? I have a beard thank you:)
I've built, rebuilt, overbuilt and wrongly built enough ARs in the last few years. Feel free to Pam me any questions you may have, I'll be glad to help.
-
Don't forget "Operate" and "Run". You don't shoot AR's, you Operate or Run them, depending on whether you're an Operator or a Gamer.
:)
-
Take a look at AR15.com. They have a section that will walk you through all the things you need to know about the platform. It also explains the 556/223 question.
Plus their general discussion forum is a hoot ;D
-
Take a look at AR15.com. Plus their general discussion forum is a hoot ;D
That's one way to describe their forum. :D
Like Dave, I've built quite a few AR's over the last several years. In fact, right now there is a series of articles on my digital magazine, trektechblack.com, that details the build of my Run and Gun AR (not operate and gun) used in the Oklahoma Run and Gun.
I'm also happy to answer any questions ... in PM or open forum.
-
Congratulations. Not to muddle things for you too much but AR's also come in other (more deer appropriate) calibers too. My current 'go to' deer rifle is a 6.8spc AR (from Palemtto State Armory as mentioned before). It's very accurate and has been quite effective.
+1 on 6.8 sweet little round.
Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk
-
That's one way to describe their forum. :D
Like Dave, I've built quite a few AR's over the last several years. In fact, right now there is a series of articles on my digital magazine, trektechblack.com, that details the build of my Run and Gun AR (not operate and gun) used in the Oklahoma Run and Gun.
I'm also happy to answer any questions ... in PM or open forum.
IMHO...you are better off using the expertise available on this forum. I never got my butt chewed on AR15.com, but I read plenty of posts where someone was chewed up and spit out for asking a question. That left me with a poor impression of their forum. Seemed to be too many internet tough guys over there.
Fly
-
IMHO...you are better off using the expertise available on this forum. I never got my butt chewed on AR15.com, but I read plenty of posts where someone was chewed up and spit out for asking a question. That left me with a poor impression of their forum. Seemed to be too many internet tough guys over there.
Fly
Tech forums strict rules against butt chewing. General discussion you better pucker up. you have to be a ARFcom high prestige like BK. If a person sticks the tech your safe read the stickies at the top of the page they are full of info. Oh yeah don't mention your wife.
Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk
-
Thanks again to all. Much reading to do. May reach out with questions if I decide to build, but I don't want to rush it and have to have a frantic, gotta get it done by deer season pace. May buy a cheap one to get familiar with the design first, then that's something that I could trade off as a project gun comes along later.
-
Feralcatkiller, an AR is a great hunting rifle, no matter what anyone tells you. I would recommend getting a 1/7 twist. You will be able to shoot anything from 55 grain all the way to 77 grain with no issues. It also doesn't sound like you will shoot more than a few hundred rounds a year. If that is the case, don't bother spending the extra money for hammer forged barrel or even chrome lined barrels. Very few people use their rifle enough to see the benefits of either. Standard chrome moly barrels have a potential to be slightly more accurate as well. As far as hunting goes, it's all about bullet construction. As long as where you are hunting doesn't legally prohibit the use of .22 center fire on deer, you're good to go. Barnes TSX is one of the best bullets for your application, and if you aren't hunting with it, get some cheap FMJ and have fun with it. Be careful though, because once you have had a taste for shooting an AR15, you will buy five more. ;D
-
Guess witch rifle is the deer rifle. Hint: They both are. The icky black rifle is an AR in 7.62x39. It is just as accurate as the Browning BLR in .308 next to it and I doubt that the deer would know the difference between the two when it goes down. ;D When not being used as a deer hunting tool it makes a great fun gun shooting cheap AK ammo. 8)
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/GuzziRider/20150313_104612_zpszsuaeoma.jpg) (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/GuzziRider/media/20150313_104612_zpszsuaeoma.jpg.html)
-
Is there a limit on magazine capacity for a deer hunting rifle imposed by Nebraska? I thought I heard awhile back that there was.
One that hasn't been mentioned yet is the .223 Wylde, which can shoot .223 and 5.56 both. I got a Colt AR with that chamber because it was on sale at CDNN, and it seems to be accurate enough (though I haven't done any formal testing with it yet). I don't know if there is any practical difference between .223 Wylde and 5.56, so I suppose you just go with whichever you happen to find.
-
Is there a limit on magazine capacity for a deer hunting rifle imposed by Nebraska? I thought I heard awhile back that there was.
Yes, any auto loading rifle is limited to a mag that only holds five rounds. You can have one in the chamber for a total of six loaded rounds. Mag must be limited by some means that cannot be easily changed or just simply only holds five rounds.
-
Is there a limit on magazine capacity for a deer hunting rifle imposed by Nebraska? I thought I heard awhile back that there was.
One that hasn't been mentioned yet is the .223 Wylde, which can shoot .223 and 5.56 both. I got a Colt AR with that chamber because it was on sale at CDNN, and it seems to be accurate enough (though I haven't done any formal testing with it yet). I don't know if there is any practical difference between .223 Wylde and 5.56, so I suppose you just go with whichever you happen to find.
I brought up wylde in my orginal post. This chamber design is somewhere between 556 and 223 dimensions and something with a difrebt throat depth. It was deveoled for precision long range shooting. You can have high pressure loads with a higher precision chamber compared to a standard 223 Remington.
Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk
-
Quote from: barmandr on September 04, 2015, 06:04:32 PM
If you want to make it really special, build the rifle with your son. Then you both get the satisfaction of him taking his first deer with something you built together. Building it yourself also allows you to get the exact rifle parts you want from the start, so in the long run it's cheaper as you are not replacing parts someone else used to build the rifle.
That's a really great idea. I've certainly got a lot of reading to do about these guns.
I saw this topic a while back and didn't comment....however, I remembered it as I was looking through the PSA site tonight and found this build kit for cheap ($300): http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/daily-deals-new/ptac-16-m4-5-56-nato-slick-side-1-9-rifle-kit.html (http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/daily-deals-new/ptac-16-m4-5-56-nato-slick-side-1-9-rifle-kit.html) now add a lower for $60 and you have a very nice home project for cheap that will get the job done and you have some bucks left to apply on a scope. http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/10445/category/4282/ (http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/10445/category/4282/)
* PTAC isn't a well known super-high-quality brand, but their stuff works as one would expect.
-
I saw this topic a while back and didn't comment....however, I remembered it as I was looking through the PSA site tonight and found this build kit for cheap ($300): http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/daily-deals-new/ptac-16-m4-5-56-nato-slick-side-1-9-rifle-kit.html (http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/daily-deals-new/ptac-16-m4-5-56-nato-slick-side-1-9-rifle-kit.html) now add a lower for $60 and you have a very nice home project for cheap that will get the job done and you have some bucks left to apply on a scope. http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/10445/category/4282/ (http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/10445/category/4282/)
* PTAC isn't a well known super-high-quality brand, but their stuff works as one would expect
Cool. So that's all you need right there, huh? I'm beginning to see that the real appeal behind AR "builds" is that you can spread the purchases out and your wife doesn't realize you bought another new gun.
-
Cool. So that's all you need right there, huh? I'm beginning to see that the real appeal behind AR "builds" is that you can spread the purchases out and your wife doesn't realize you bought another new gun.
For those of us without this "Wife" you speak of, it also makes it easier to build over time, $50 here, and $50 there, before you know it you have a rifle.
-
And since there are no power tools needed, your child can be involved in all aspects of the build.
-
... If that is the case, don't bother spending the extra money for hammer forged barrel or even chrome lined barrels. Very few people use their rifle enough to see the benefits of either. Standard chrome moly barrels have a potential to be slightly more accurate as well. ...
Any thoughts on stainless (dis)advantages, other than corrosion resistance? And the fact that they're purty?
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/review/product/list/id/17477/category/4459/?p=2 (http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/review/product/list/id/17477/category/4459/?p=2)
-
Stainless works fine. Not as durable as a chrome lined barrel, but it'll still last many thousands of rounds.
-
Any thoughts on stainless (dis)advantages, other than corrosion resistance? And the fact that they're purty?
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/review/product/list/id/17477/category/4459/?p=2 (http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/review/product/list/id/17477/category/4459/?p=2)
They are shiny in the dark and reflect in the sun... 8) ...if you are around a salt-spray environment then stainless may be for you...otherwise, not a lot of benefit.
-
They are shiny in the dark and reflect in the sun... 8) ...if you are around a salt-spray environment then stainless may be for you...otherwise, not a lot of benefit.
See there you go. I wasn't thinking "tactical" enough, dang it. I guess I could always throw some camo tape on there in case zombies attack or Obama declares martial law. Would that count as a "mod"? Apparently I'm supposed to start "modding" stuff, if I understand the parlance.
-
The PSA Freedom Rifle kit has arrived!!! To the untrained eye it looks a lot like an AR-15 that dad bought as a range toy, but it will really make a superb youth deer rifle.
Looks pretty straightforward, but I may reach out to those of you who generously offered build advice or support, if I get stuck.
So... a question about lubrication and cleaning:
I'm a Froglube fanatic for plastic pistols and stainless revolvers. They seem to work slicker than snot on the stuff, and clean up just by wiping them off. Anyone used Froglube on an AR, or does it need to function a bit more "wet", i.e. something with a bit more greasy residue?
-
For AR15's I use Slip EWL and run the bolt/carrier wet
-
The PSA Freedom Rifle kit has arrived!!! To the untrained eye it looks a lot like an AR-15 that dad bought as a range toy, but it will really make a superb youth deer rifle.
Looks pretty straightforward, but I may reach out to those of you who generously offered build advice or support, if I get stuck.
So... a question about lubrication and cleaning:
I'm a Froglube fanatic for plastic pistols and stainless revolvers. They seem to work slicker than snot on the stuff, and clean up just by wiping them off. Anyone used Froglube on an AR, or does it need to function a bit more "wet", i.e. something with a bit more greasy residue?
Depending on what you have for coatings on the rifle Frog Lube will mess with the finish.
-
you'll get a zillion replies on lube. i use Crisco... i mean FireClean since I shoot pretty much 100% suppressed. i like it a lot. i use Hoppe's #9 or RemOil or CLP for general/basic cleaning, then FireClean for storage and shooting lube. basically, just use something!
-
you'll get a zillion replies on lube.
This is so true. Myself, I break in a new firearm by first cleaning and applying a good petroleum based gun oil like Ultra-Klenz or RemOil. After an initial shooting session, I do a thorough cleaning and then apply Froglube (paste). Some folks like it and some don't. I've also heard good things from folks using synthetic motor oil. I think after a good cleaning any lubrication will work & protect to a certain degree....its just that some will provide better long term solutions than others. It's ultimately your decision on what you like to use for your firearms. As for Froglube discoloring the finish on a particular firearm...I've not experienced that problem so far. One way to know for certain is to first try a little dab on a small inconspicous place and see what it looks like...if you don't like what you see use some sovent to take it down. Key thing I found with Froglube is initially apply it twice (under heat) and wipe the surfaces down after they are cooled off. I don't like to leave any visible residue on any parts. One will see it working when things begin to heat up. Good luck and have fun with your new purchase.
-
Thanks again.
-
you'll get a zillion replies on lube. i use Crisco... i mean FireClean since I shoot pretty much 100% suppressed. i like it a lot. i use Hoppe's #9 or RemOil or CLP for general/basic cleaning, then FireClean for storage and shooting lube. basically, just use something!
Haha when I saw that arrival I thought about you. Just curious have you tried crisco yet?
Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk
-
Haha when I saw that arrival I thought about you. Just curious have you tried crisco yet?
Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk
Nope! i notice the similarities but i'll stick to my overpriced cooking oil. :)
-
Background on the Crisco / Fireclean thing: http://www.vuurwapenblog.com/general-opinion/lies-errors-and-omissions/ir-spectra-fireclean-crisco/ (http://www.vuurwapenblog.com/general-opinion/lies-errors-and-omissions/ir-spectra-fireclean-crisco/)
Redditors cheekily posted about a "99% off bulk Fireclean" sale which was Amazon's product page for Crisco. But the comments had a bunch of smart-sounding science people debating the analysis and stuff, so it seems worth reading too if you're interested: https://www.reddit.com/r/gundeals/comments/3kt43b/bulk_package_of_fireclean_99_off/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/gundeals/comments/3kt43b/bulk_package_of_fireclean_99_off/)
-
We got it done. Built 100% by the boy and test fired all in one day. Super easy!
So easy, I might actually need another one, in fact. ;)
The iron sights are OK but I have a 2x7 Leupold sitting here, NIB from a inline muzzleloader project that never got finished. That might be really nice for his deer hunt.
-
It's called Black Rifle Disease for a reason. Buy now. Market is flooded.
-
It's also time to start adding the much desired/needed accessories.... ;)
-
We got it done. Built 100% by the boy and test fired all in one day. Super easy!
That's fantastic. I can imagine how great he felt to be able to do it. It'll make taking his first deer even that much more special and memorable. Now you need to have him log on and post some specs and pics so he can be congratulated.
-
That's fantastic. I can imagine how great he felt to be able to do it. It'll make taking his first deer even that much more special and memorable. Now you need to have him log on and post some specs and pics so he can be congratulated.
What he said!
-
Pictures!