NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
General Categories => General Firearm Discussion => Topic started by: bgrizzly98 on March 16, 2016, 11:52:35 AM
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I currently have a Taurus PT111G2, and within a week or two I'm going to be purchasing another handgun.
My budget has gone up significantly, and I'm leaning towards Glock or a 1911 as long as its under $1000.
I'd be getting a 45cal 1911 or a 40s&w or 45 glock.
If you've shot either or, or both, which did you prefer and why?
I'm torn because I've read about the article from Lee Vickers stating that if you want a 1911, be prepared to become your own armorer. Basically meaning it's much more maintenance and upkeep than a Glock would be, and that a Glock even in a 45 would have much less recoil than a 1911 would because of the barrel height.
This would be used for concealed carry as well, but doesn't have to be my primary.
Any info from you guys that have way more experience than I do will be greatly appreciated.
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Id go with the 1911 so many different barrel sizes and add ons, but I might be a little bit bias, I have 28 of them!
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I have Glocks. I have 1911's. Glocks are (generally) cheaper. Glocks are stupid-simple. Glocks aren't as heavy as a steel-framed pistol making them more comfortable to carry concealed.
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Depends on what you want it for. The 1911 is a very good pistol but as you probably know it was named after the date it came into use by the military. That was over a century ago. Newer designs make it obsolete, though there are many who still prefer it. Some still prefer the old single action revolver in fact. Even a flintlock pistol will work, just not as well as a newer design.
After the Glock came out it redefined the state of the art; anti-gun bigots waged one of their famous big lie campaigns just to try to get it outlawed. I believe more police carry Glocks than any other pistol, and even than all other pistols combined. I don't know if any still carry the 1911 but I doubt many do.
The .45 round was very well respected in its day and it still is. There are various opinions over what constitutes stopping power and the most common opinion now seems to be that size doesn't matter. Size can matter though when it comes to how well you can control your weapon, and the biggest factor in stopping power is shot placement. Size also determines how many rounds can fit into a magazine, and more rounds means more chances to hit a vital organ. For those reasons 9mm and .40 cal. are probably a better choice, if self defense is your purpose. Or if you want a lot of power you might look into a 10mm, though ammo for it will be harder to find and more expensive.
9mm ammo costs substantially less than .40 and is more common. That makes practice more affordable, and practice is far more important than any difference in bullet energy.
The Glock should be able to digest any factory ammo you feed it. I believe it even works fine with 9mm NATO, which is loaded hotter than more standard 9mm and should not be used in some 9mm pistols. (If I'm mistaken about that hopefully someone will correct me.)
I think a Glock compact or subcompact in either 9mm or .40 caliber is probably the best carry pistol for self defense for most people. But having a weapon you feel confident in is important too. So if you just really like the 1911 .45 that might be the best pistol for you. Otherwise, go with the Glock.
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Glock 30S
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I have zero personal experience with Glocks. From what I have read, unmodified ones are about as reliable as a hammer. However, I have witnessed failures with examples whose owners had installed aftermarket parts.
Thirty years ago, I bought a Colt Gold Cup. Out of the box, it was reliable with everything but semi-wadcutters. Cylinder and Slide fixed that for me. As long as I clean and lubricate the gun every couple hundred rounds, it's 100% reliable.
From what I have read, 1911 reliability varies from brand to brand. Rock Island and Springfield are supposed to be good; Kimbers not so much. Some expensive, custom guns don't do very well, either. Small 1911s, with short barrels, are notoriously unreliable. You should stick to a full sized model or a Commander. The weight of steel guns makes them pleasant to shoot.
Cylinder and Slide has a good reputation. Since they don't post prices on the web site, I don't know how much they want for a basic 1911 with a good trigger and sights and just enough tweaking to make it reliable.
What is your purpose for a new gun? If it's just to have a .45 for fun, a 1911 strikes me as more rewarding than a Glock. If your purpose is self defense, consider something in 9 mm. The best current thinking is that, with the possible exception of .357 mag and .357 Sig, there is no significant difference between the popular self defense calibers. Long ago, when a solid slug with a round nose was the only ammunition available, .45 was more effective than .38. Modern hollow point ammunition makes shot placement and multiple hits more important than caliber. With 9 mm, you get more rounds in the same sized package and faster repeat shots because of lower recoil.
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Buy a Glock 22 police trade in for around $350. You can then get a 9mm conversion and 357 sig barrels for it. Mags are easy to find and reasonably priced. Holsters are everywhere. Aftermarket products are very well represented. I even found Glock 21 trades for a good price. I am trying to find the money to get one of those and convert it to 460 Rowland and 10mm.
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Glock21 or a Glock 17. I'm not a fan of 40sw snappy and over pressure imo.
I also prefer the gen4 over the gen3.
Thunder alley in Lincoln has used models all the time. Give time a call for there exact inventory.
For around $1000 you could buy 2 used glocks and holsters. :)
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9mm NATO, which is loaded hotter than more standard 9mm and should not be used in some 9mm pistols.
You are correct. The 9mm NANO I used to own had a warning in the manual about using +P rounds.
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Glock21 or a Glock 17. I'm not a fan of 40sw snappy and over pressure imo.
I'm not a fan either but I keep buying them, lol. I can buy a G22 and a conversion barrel cheaper than I can find G17s. I have not had any problems using the conversion barrels.
My brother and I shot some 40 last weekend. I must be getting used to them because I enjoyed it quite a bit. He is now buying one.
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I'm not a fan either but I keep buying them, lol. I can buy a G22 and a conversion barrel cheaper than I can find G17s. I have not had any problems using the conversion barrels.
My brother and I shot some 40 last weekend. I must be getting used to them because I enjoyed it quite a bit. He is now buying one.
Yep the 9mm retain there value unlike the 40sw. Trying to find a used 9mm is hard. The amount of police forces that use the 22 are much greater than the 17 or 21.
The conversion barrels are cheap enough. I just sold one for my dad since he picked up his 17 and didn't feel the need to have one for his 31c.
Short story buy the Glock :)
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Since you already own a sub-compact 9mm you might as well get a different caliber and frame size.
Take a close look at a 1911 in. 45 ACP, and you will own something worthy of passing down to further generations.
With a full size 1911 in .45 the recoil is very manageable, and has been used as a concealed carry firearm for over 100 years with many a different holster available.
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Yep the 9mm retain there value unlike the 40sw. Trying to find a used 9mm is hard. The amount of police forces that use the 22 are much greater than the 17 or 21.
The conversion barrels are cheap enough. I just sold one for my dad since he picked up his 17 and didn't feel the need to have one for his 31c.
Short story buy the Glock :)
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I know, it is crazy how many people have used 9mms for sale for more money than I can buy a new one for. ;)
I think one factor is that the G22 is their number one selling firearm, by far, and them being traded in as large lots. G23s usually bring about the same as 9mms. I can sometimes find G17s for good prices as well but are usually sold out fast.
I bought 2 G22s recently. The first one was $333 shipped with night sights, box, 2 mags (1 new). I was a lil disappointed that the sights were dim and had considerable holster wear but the internals were like new. I think it was a factory refurb.
The other one was $355 shipped with nightsights, box, and 3 mags. It will be here tomorrow so hoping it is great. I bought from the same place and they said it is really nice.
I saw your barrel for sale. He should have kept it as it is always good to have another option.
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This new gun is going to be a secondary concealed carry for when I feel like carrying something different, for range/fun use and if I ever decide to get into competitive shooting, it would be for that too.
I think I'm leaning more towards the G 41 right now. I kind of like the idea of having a different caliber and it will be a full frame as well.
I'm not dead set on Glock, I'm open to other brands but as far as availability of aftermarket things like sights, magazines, holsters and pretty much anything you can think of is nice.
I've thought about getting another 9mm like the 17.
I think the biggest determination for me will be which one feels right when I hold it. If I decide I don't like the weight of the 41, which is lighter than the 21 I may end up just getting another 9mm in full frame.
And about those police trade ins. Where can I find info on those? I'd definitely be interested in that.
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This new gun is going to be a secondary concealed carry for when I feel like carrying something different, for range/fun use and if I ever decide to get into competitive shooting, it would be for that too.
I think I'm leaning more towards the G 41 right now. I kind of like the idea of having a different caliber and it will be a full frame as well.
I'm not dead set on Glock, I'm open to other brands but as far as availability of aftermarket things like sights, magazines, holsters and pretty much anything you can think of is nice.
I've thought about getting another 9mm like the 17.
I think the biggest determination for me will be which one feels right when I hold it. If I decide I don't like the weight of the 41, which is lighter than the 21 I may end up just getting another 9mm in full frame.
And about those police trade ins. Where can I find info on those? I'd definitely be interested in that.
The nice thing about the 41 is your can use you existing small frame glock holsers. So say you have a OWB with a open muzzle the 41 will be a perfect fit where a 21 your will have to get all new holsters for it. As for CC i wouldnt want to stuff anything longer than a 17 in a iwb and owb for cc requires a longer shirt. Nothing that says you can just it is going to be long!
Thunder alley had a 41 the other day. I didnt notice if they still had one or not when i stopped in tonight.
As far a surplus guns go TA gets them time to time. HealthMart gets them also i think. AIM surplus gets a lot but many of them are gen2 19 or 17. maybe Mntman can fill us in!
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I won't give up my best fishing holes but wikiarms.com is a good start.
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I currently have a Taurus PT111G2, and within a week or two I'm going to be purchasing another handgun.
My budget has gone up significantly, and I'm leaning towards Glock or a 1911 as long as its under $1000.
I'd be getting a 45cal 1911 or a 40s&w or 45 glock.
If you've shot either or, or both, which did you prefer and why?
I'm torn because I've read about the article from Lee Vickers stating that if you want a 1911, be prepared to become your own armorer. Basically meaning it's much more maintenance and upkeep than a Glock would be, and that a Glock even in a 45 would have much less recoil than a 1911 would because of the barrel height.
This would be used for concealed carry as well, but doesn't have to be my primary.
Any info from you guys that have way more experience than I do will be greatly appreciated.
I would not buy a new 1911 that costs less than $1K. I would not buy one that costs less than $2K frankly. You just don't know what you're going to get. I want a gun that will run. I'm not interested in shipping it back and forth, trying to get it right. It is not realistic to expect a sub-$1K 1911 to run well.
Larry Vickers will tell you straight up, buy a Glock. 1911's, on the whole, take more upkeep and care. You have to be a bit of a mechanic IMHO, to keep one running. They're more reliable than they're given credit for, but you have to start with a good one. And that means $$$$$. Glocks are so much more forgiving of lackadaisical maintenance and in general, they simply work right out of the box and keep working with little fuss. You can gunsmith a Glock with a rock and a toothpick. Sights are easier to replace as well.
40 S&W is going the way of the dodo, as is the 45. 9mm will do everything you need in an SD oriented handgun. More BB's in the tank and ammo is much cheaper to buy. The 9 is easier to shoot and easier to shoot faster.
My advice, as always, buy a G17, spend the rest on ammo and training. And a good holster and belt. Maybe two G17's. Maybe even a G19 if you intend to carry, although folks carry the G17.
What is your intended purpose for your handguns? Carry? Competition? General range use?
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When Lorimor starts recommending buying Glocks, you know "something is definitely amiss at the Circle K" .... what next, Donald Trump as the POTUS ???
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When Lorimor starts recommending buying Glocks, you know "something is definitely amiss at the Circle K" .... what next, Donald Trump as the POTUS ???
I noticed some dogs and cats living together down the street. :)
It's just real, real, REAL, hard to beat a Glock. Folks can take a box stock Glock and run it, real, real, REAL well. Just hard to beat them.
And now that they're offering a backstrap that better protects hands from slide bite (current production Gen4's), they're a bit friendlier to us high grippers. :)
(Man, this has been painful as a 1911 toter to write.)
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This one will be used for just about everything. From a secondary conceal to range, to competitive shooting if I ever decide to get into that.
Like I said earlier, I'm leaning towards a 45 or 40 because I already have a 9mm, but it's a subcompact, so I haven't ruled out the 17 since I do want a full frame as I already have a subcompact.
This won't he my last handgun purchase, but it will be the last one for a while.
I'm going to go see all of them I can in person today and tomorrow, and I think I'll make a decision after that.
But right now it's going to be a Glock unless something profoundly comes up and talks me out of it.
I may have to make a trip down to thunder alley. Living in Omaha, I don't get down to Lincoln very much.
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http://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/products2.cfm/ID/161338 (http://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/products2.cfm/ID/161338)
Buy a Lonewolf conversion barrel for $100 and you have 2 guns. 9 mm mags are $15-20.
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Many manufacturers make .40s and .45s. To give just two examples outside the 1911 and Glock boxes:
- Walther makes the PPQ in .45. It has a better trigger than any Glock.
- Browning Hi Powers come in either .40 or 9 mm. At the Council Bluffs gun show two weeks ago, I came across a 50 year old, 9 mm Hi Power with adjustable sights, a very nice trigger and a Commander style hammer.
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Yeah I know almost every manufacturer makes those calibers, but as I said before, I like all the customization offerings and aftermarket things for Glock.
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Buying a conversion barrel might be a good option too.
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http://www.glockstore.com/ (http://www.glockstore.com/)
Lots of accessories here...
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i must be the weird guy in the NFOA. i've never tried a Uplula mag loader, i don't like Glocks or 1911's very much.
i like M&P's w/ Apex Tactical trigger, RAM, and sear upgrades with different sights. my M&P 40S&W shoots 9mm w/ a drop in barrel and different mags. i've also heard the full size parts can be used a in compact versions, but they look weird doing so.
but carry on....
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I'm still new to hand guns - firearms in general, but I've fired a number of them and held even more. My first centerfire handgun will be a Walther PPQ. It has the best trigger I've tried and the best fit in my hands. I did not care for the Glock 19 grip in my hands - just me and fit. The Springfield XD has been my 2nd favorite I've tried. I haven't fired an H&K but did hold one at Cabelas sales counter. The trigger didn't feel quite as good as a PPQ but I would like to try it sometime at a firing range. I'm biased a bit toward paddle mag release so take that into consideration on my view - My Walther will be a paddle release version (PPQ M1 series in 9mm for me)
btw - don't laugh too hard but I did put a few magazines through a Hipoint C9. By far the ugliest gun I've laid eyes on and unreasonably heavy (especially for a gun that only holds 8 rounds) - BUT it actually ran pretty good, no malfunctions right out of the box (5 different magazines with cheap bulk ammo) and I got reasonable groups at 7 yds ... FWIW a gun that can be bought $150 (or less) new. I'm not going to buy one but I was surprised, it's not *that* bad.
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Best of both worlds?
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160318/2860039be4820008bfb53d579b310278.jpg)
Haha
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Personally, I am not a fan of Glocks because of the grip angle. It just feels off when I handle one, but otherwise they were very nice. My father has a 1911 that I do like, but the are generally out of my budget so I don't have one.
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Don't worry jschenck, when I first went to seriously look at buying my first handgun I held a Hi Point because of the price, but as soon as I felt how heavy it was I put it back. Lol
I'm still fairly new to the handgun world too, as I just bought my first one last summer, but spent 4 years in the Army so firearms themselves are not really new to me.
Right now I'm seriously leaning towards the g23,22 or the 17 or 19. I love the idea of being able to drop a different barrel into a 22 or 23 and being able to fire 357 sig or 9mm. It would be essentially having 3 guns in one, and since I do want to be able to carry this as well, the 19 and 23 are leading the way due to their size, even though both are still bigger than my current subcompact 9mm.
I'm being very indecisive on the model, but I have ruled out the g41. I went to scheels yesterday to hold one and was amazed at how light it was, but the grip felt a little to big for me. I held the 22 and felt comfortable.
I'm going to check out some others today, but I'm not gonna be buying this for probably another week or two. So I still have time to make a final decision, but I know I can't really go wrong with all Glock. I think a 1911 will have to wait a few years until I can get one I either build myself, or spend a fair amount of money on.
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Sounds like you already decided on the glock style, but I was gonna suggest the S&W line of M&P pistols, or even the Ruger pistols. They seem like a good value from what I've seen. All American made, if that is a deciding factor.
Although I think most Glocks are US made now too. (If not all of them.)
Haven't seen much about the CZ-75 series or their family lately or their clones, EAA. Might be worth a look. The gun press doesn't write much about them unless they are introducing new models.
Doh! Forgot to add what I have: an old G17 that I probably paid way too much for. (2nd gen I think)Bought it used during the Clinton crime bill years, came with 2 17 round mags is why the price was so high. I felt it was worth it then.
FYI I believe it was a police trade in, showed lots of holster wear but didn't seem to be fired a lot. Had the "black"internal parts and plastic recoil spring guide rod.
Haven't shot it much lately but keep it around for self defense and the occasional GSSF match when I have the time and money. I don't think I'd fare well trying to trade it for the latest generation of frames, but I sure would like to try a gen 4 and see how it fits my hand. Always has felt just a little "off", if ya know what I mean.
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The practice pistol I use the most is a 9mm Glock (Glock 19). It was a used police trade-in when I bought it. I've easily run well over 20,000 rounds through it and it works fine. I had a breakdown a few years ago and had to replace a pin (cost under $10); I had been using dry-lube instead of oil and maybe that had something to do with the pin breaking (just a guess). I had a trigger return spring break too and it didn't cost much to replace. That's been at east a few thousand rounds ago and it's functioned flawlessly ever since. Given the amount of use it's had that's pretty good I think.
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Kinda Odd That No One So Far Has Mentioned Carry Mode:
Glock:
Pull from Holster, Point, Pull Trigger.
1911:
Choose carry mode from Condition Zero, Condition One, Condition Two.......YadaYada.......Condition n.....
I understand nostalgia, tradition, living in the past, past glory, the need to mow down bolo-wielding Moros, the great design legacy of John Moses Browning, all that..........
I even understand the utter fascination 1911 Folks have with their firearms: grip safety, thumb safety, wicked cocked hammer, heavy handgun heft, all that...........
I understand the sheer delirious beauty of the 1911 form and shape, all that.........
But I can't ever, ever, never understand the method of carrying that Big SOB fully cocked and locked so that it's ready to go when needed.
Especially now that all you have to do with a Glock is draw, point, and pull trigger.
And That's All I Know About That.
sfg
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SemperFiGuy
The 1911 was designed to be Condition 1 carried with its double safeties. A Glock is basically in Condition 1 whenever a round is chambered. I do not see much difference between a 1911, grab grip safety take off thumb safety pull trigger Bang vs a Glock design with it's passive "Safe Action System" pull trigger safety thus trigger Bang! You tell me which is safer.
Some prefer to carry in Condition Three but when nano seconds count, if you have a free hand and if ever in a gun fight the last thing that I want to be dong is racking the slide on my hand gun.
Col. Jeff Cooper's Conditions of Firearm Carry
Condition Four: Chamber empty, no magazine, hammer down.
Condition Three: Chamber empty, full magazine, hammer down.
Condition Two: Round chambered, full magazine, hammer down.
Condition One: Round chambered, full magazine, hammer cocked, safety on.
Condition Zero: Round chambered, full magazine, hammer cocked, safety off.[/
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The 1911 was designed to be Condition 1 carried with its double safeties. A Glock is basically in Condition 1 whenever a round is chambered. I do not see much difference between a 1911, grab grip safety take off thumb safety pull trigger Bang vs a Glock design with it's passive "Safe Action System" pull trigger safety thus trigger Bang!
I agree that there isn't much difference. That being said, even a cursory reading of people's experiences (and observation at action pistol matches) will show you that an amazing number of people screw up the draw stroke and don't take off the safety under stress. (Or sometimes accidentally knock the safety upward under stress while shooting, after a reload, etc.)
While the common reaction to that is "then they should have practiced more" (to which I agree) that doesn't change the fact that people DO seem to have issues with it.
That isn't an argument against 1911s, by the way. It just means that if there are additional controls, people who plan on relying on those handguns need to practice it until they can't get it wrong.
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[quote]You tell me which is safer[/quote]
In the USMC at Camp Pendleton we group showered. Altogether naked, of course. Such behavior happened to fit right in with the Southern California culture at the time.
One day while in the shower I noticed that one of the corporals had a Huge Scar running all the way down the outside of his right leg, upper hip to ankle.
Being terminally curious and unduly nosy, I asked, "What's that scar all about??"
He said that while he was in Korea he was leader of a heavy machine gun crew, in which case his duty weapon was a .45ACP Browning M1911 semi-automatic pistol.
One day while he was holstering it in his leather US flap-top holster, it discharged. Hence the long, ugly scar down his right leg..
The courts-martial awarded him six months in the USMC brig and reduction in rank to Private, period. Took him a while to make it back to corporal.
Now, on the other hand, a few months ago I read of a State Trooper who was holstering his Glock .40S&W. One of those little round plastic squeezie thingies on his jacket caught on the Glock Safe Action trigger and the Trooper is now a Blood Brother with the USMC Corporal.
Guess if you can do it with an M1911, you can do it with a Glock.
Guns are Dangerous.
All of my guns are dangerous.
All of Yours are, too.
sfg
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A Glock is basically in Condition 1 whenever a round is chambered.
NOT TRUE!
A Glock striker dies not have the spring energy required to ignite a primer until the trigger has been pulled far enough to the rear to load the spring and release the striker blocking safety and finally moves far enough to release the striker.