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General Categories => General Firearm Discussion => Topic started by: Waltherfan on September 22, 2016, 01:01:22 PM

Title: Cop Shot
Post by: Waltherfan on September 22, 2016, 01:01:22 PM
The recent "accidental" shooting of an off duty Omaha policeman has me perplexed. Perhaps y'all can explain to me how it conceivably could have happened.

Their story is that the landowner was "cleaning his revolver" when his acquaintance (the off duty officer) showed up unexpectedly. The landowner didn't realize the revolver was loaded and pulled the trigger, firing it and striking the officer in the abdomen.

Having owned revolvers, if I'm cleaning it, the cylinder is out and it's pretty obvious if there are rounds in the cylinder or not. If I'm done cleaning the inside and just wiping it down, I'm pretty sure I'd remember if I'd put rounds in the cylinder.

I was taught not to pull the trigger if the firearm was pointed at anyone I didn't intend to shoot.

Any ideas on how this happened?
Title: Re: Cop Shot
Post by: depserv on September 22, 2016, 02:11:06 PM
It has always amazed me how many people "accidentally" shoot somebody while supposedly cleaning their gun, since one of the parts you clean is the part where the ammo goes waiting to be fired.  As common as this seems to be, maybe how to unload a gun before cleaning it should be part of the CHP classes. 

Maybe he was trying to run a cleaning rod into a cylinder with a round in it (and he's blind so he couldn't see it) and the cleaning rod, which was a special type of cleaning rod with a small steel end on it, dented the primer, deep enough to fire the round.  The cylinder was swung out of the gun, but the bullet still had enough force behind it to injure the officer, even though it didn't go through the barrel.  I think this is about as likely as any other story about a gun going off while it was being cleaned.   

My guess he was playing with the gun, probably pointed it at his friend and pulled the trigger assuming it to be empty.  Or maybe there was an argument and a scuffle that escalated too far, and after the officer was shot they both decided it would be best to make up a story.  You'd think they could come up with something better than the overused gun cleaning story though.

That's all speculation of course.  My guess is we'll never know what really happened.
Title: Re: Cop Shot
Post by: shooter on September 22, 2016, 02:27:44 PM
 I think that " cleaning my gun and it went off" actually means " I was playing with my gun and it went off !"
Title: Re: Cop Shot
Post by: Mali on September 22, 2016, 03:04:50 PM
Quote from: shooter on September 22, 2016, 02:27:44 PM
I think that " cleaning my gun and it went off" actually means " I was playing with my gun and it went off !"
What he said.  :)
Title: Re: Cop Shot
Post by: SemperFiGuy on September 22, 2016, 05:13:14 PM
All Firearms are Always Loaded.
No such thing as an Empty Gun.

Ever.

Like others up above, I'm thinkin' that all of these "........cleaning my gun........it went BANG!!!!" stories are just that:  stories.

Modern Fables.

Constructed to obviate and frustrate discovery of what actually happened.

Cranky and Occasionally Cynical Guy
Title: Re: Cop Shot
Post by: Les on September 22, 2016, 05:26:08 PM
Brain fart.  It's always loaded......Always.
Title: Re: Cop Shot
Post by: Kendahl on September 22, 2016, 05:42:00 PM
Quote from: Les on September 22, 2016, 05:26:08 PM
Brain fart.  It's always loaded......Always.
If you keep your finger off the trigger until you have made the decision to fire, it still won't go off.
Title: Re: Cop Shot
Post by: CustomSatellite on September 22, 2016, 09:27:32 PM
I don't believe a case can be made for an accidental discharge. Negligent discharge maybe, not accidental. Barring a catastrophic failure of a firearm i.e. think rem 700 faulty fire controls, every discharge not intended can be traced to failure to follow one of the Cardinal rules thus making it negligent.
Title: Re: Cop Shot
Post by: Mali on September 23, 2016, 09:11:56 PM
Quote from: Kendahl on September 22, 2016, 05:42:00 PM
If you keep your finger off the trigger until you have made the decision to fire, it still won't go off.
Problem is there are many handguns that require you to pull the trigger to release teh slide for cleaning. Of course you should have already:
BEFORE pulling that trigger to release the slide. I will actually check the weapon several times before I even release the slide lock and same before pulling the trigger to release the slide. I am VERY diligent to verify it is cleared before doing anything.
Title: Re: Cop Shot
Post by: JTH on September 24, 2016, 07:30:56 AM
Quote from: depserv on September 22, 2016, 02:11:06 PM
As common as this seems to be, maybe how to unload a gun before cleaning it should be part of the CHP classes. 

It is.  Assuming the instructor is actually doing what they are supposed to in terms of having the required curriculum.

Quote from: shooter
I think that " cleaning my gun and it went off" actually means " I was playing with my gun and it went off !"

I think that "cleaning my gun and it went off" actually means "I wasn't paying attention to the gun I was holding and I pulled the trigger."

They don't just "go off."  (I know I'm preaching to the choir here.)  "It just went off!" is code for "I'm too stupid to realize I pulled the trigger."
Title: Re: Cop Shot
Post by: Phantom on September 24, 2016, 10:48:06 AM
Your all forgetting

This is the Media reporting  :o

Do we know that the media actually understands what cleaning a gun means ...
Or is this some buzzword like "an Assault rifle" ;D 
Title: Re: Cop Shot
Post by: BranchMillardian on September 26, 2016, 10:46:59 AM
I remember hearing this on KFAB and the details at the time were pretty peculiar. On the radio they made it sound like the guy was dumping trash and "accidentally" got shot. Here is a write-up I found:

http://www.wowt.com/content/news/Shooting-investigated-near-Bennington-393987631.html

Quote
BENNINGTON, Neb. (WOWT) - An off-duty Omaha police officer was wounded Monday morning in what's being called an "accidental shooting" northeast of Bennington.


An official source said Officer Ben Weidner went to a farm near North 156th Street and Pawnee Road where he routinely goes, with the property owner's permission, to dump yard waste.

Weidner showed up earlier than usual, just before 10 a.m. Jerry Byrnes, 70, had been cleaning a handgun when he unexpectedly encountered Weidner at his door. Byrnes was startled and reacted by squeezing the handgun and trigger. A shot was fired and struck Weidner in the abdomen.

Byrnes believed the gun to be unloaded at the time he was cleaning the exterior frame.

Weidner's mother, who is the nurse, was with him at the time and provided medical attention before he was taken to Nebraska Medicine in stable condition. Douglas County Sheriff's officials said Weidner underwent surgery and is expected to make a full recovery.

Douglas County Sheriff Investigators have interviewed Weidner, Byrnes and a witness at the scene. They said Byrnes and Weidner know each other and are on good terms. The shooting has been determined to be accidental. No criminal charges are expected.

Bold added for emphasis.

That helps a little. So Weidner was at Byrnes' door. Maybe Byrnes was aiming at the door and Weidner popped into view? I don't know. The story still seems a little goofy, but considering they are friends and there doesn't seem to be any foul play...

I guess it goes without saying that the four rules are there for a reason.