NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
General Categories => General Firearm Discussion => Topic started by: Wesley D on April 21, 2011, 05:28:54 PM
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So there I was, out in Broken Bow last weekend, and I had the thought planted in my head about this round... so now I'm considering getting into the 300 AAC Blackout caliber (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/300_BLACKOUT).
The advantages seem to be the ability to still use 223 bolt and pmags with a round that's got a lot more ka-pow than the 223, with ballistics similar to a 7.62x39. Plus the 220gr subs are easy to suppress.
Anyone else looking at this round? Has Koenig started building a project gun in this caliber yet?
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Not if I want to stay married. Besides, I have to be home long enough to get my 6.8 to run reliably before I could think about another project. Work travel pays for new guns but doesn't leave much time to shoot them.
I talked to a guy who was building one and he showed me a cartridge. It's different looking, the exposed part of the bullet looks about as long as the case. It would be a fun gun to shoot with a can.
Now that I think about it some more I may be thinking of the .300 Whisper. Not sure what the difference is though.
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Yeah, it reminded me of the 300 Whisper, too. You ever read Sniper's Eyes? That was the first time I had heard of that round.
The thing about the whole suppression... I'd almost have to Form 1 a lower to make it a manageable length. Guess that's what happens when you take up stamp collecting as a hobby?
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Philately will get you nowhere? :D
Time to go update my forum info for my interests to add philately... :laugh:
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Yeah, even a 16" AR with a can gets kind of unwieldy. Plus the longer the barrel the more I assume it will flex with a suppressor mounted and change the point of impact. That's why I opted to Form 1 a lower first. I figured if I ever got a can I would want it on an SBR. Still waiting for CMMG to come out with their 5.5" 22LR upper so I can get a can for that......
How are the ballistics with the Blackout in say a 12.5" barrel? I've read you don't want to go shorter than 11.5 on a centerfire with a can because the muzzle blast will eat up the baffles.
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I believe guys are running cans on 9" barrels with the 300 BLK subs.
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This one looks fairly nice... 8)
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=118&t=867322 (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=118&t=867322)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/operator45/300blk1.jpg)
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You know that getting an obscure caliber means you have to start reloading, right? And you might as well just do that right and buy a Dillon RL 550. No sense in going half way ;D
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In for a penny, in for a pound...
So how'd you sell the deluxe press purchase with your wife Brian?
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I wish. I'm still making do with a Lee turret press. Works great for pistol, not so much for rifle. I have problems with consistent seating depth due to the slop in the turret.
I've heard good stuff about the Hornady Lock & Load too, and they're a local company. If I was starting out handloading for the first time I would probably get a Lee single stage press to learn on and upgrade later.
I did some reading on the Blackout and apparently you can form the brass from .223. That's a huge advantage over the 6.8. Buying new Hornady or SSA brass is expensive. The 6.8 has a tad more range for hunting purposes but it's more expensive to get into. I also read that while the Blackout is supposed to use standard AR mags in the real world guys are having feeding problems with the standard mags unless they modify them. Probably not a big deal if you're handy.
If you decide to build an upper let me know and you can borrow my tools. You don't really save any money by building from scratch but you can set it up exactly the way you want it.
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The difference between 300 Blackout and 300 Whisper or any other wildcat cartridge is it is a SAAMI caliber that manuf. is supported by any ammunition company that wants to manuf. it. So it is not a wildcat.
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Well, it's not an SBR upper, but AIM has complete 16" CMMG .300 AAC uppers for sale:
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XCMMGM3001603R (http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XCMMGM3001603R)
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Tempting, but I still want to sell this AK (http://nebraskafirearms.org/forum/index.php/topic,3569.0.html) before I get into another caliber...
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ooh, they sell the ammo, too:
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=ACMMG300BLKSUB&name=CMMG+.300+BLACKOUT+%287.62x35%29+175grn+Subsonic+200rds&groupid=6 (http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=ACMMG300BLKSUB&name=CMMG+.300+BLACKOUT+%287.62x35%29+175grn+Subsonic+200rds&groupid=6)
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Wesley, did you ever sell that AK to get a start on this? Or is the new addition using up all your gun money? :D
I'm seriously thinking of selling my 6.8 barrel and switching to a blackout. The idea of being able to form cases from .223 brass is really appealing. Plus I'm getting frustrated with the lack of mags, brass, poor bullet selection, etc for the 6.8. Delta Company has nice barrels at a very reasonable price so I could make the switch for almost nothing out of pocket.
I just found out Leupold has a sweet custom bullet drop reticle for the .300 blk, with marks for both supersonic and subsonic loads.
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The little Nugget is going to be using up all the gun project money for a while... I mean, now there's one more person to outfit with rifle, mags, ammo, etc. :laugh:
You should totally switch to 300BLK. That way, I'll be able to get feedback on the barrels and optics when I finally get ready to start. Though, I suppose my first step should be putting a Form 1 to a lower so I can build it as an SBR. ;)
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A 300 AAC Blackout upper is on my purchase list. Now i just need some of my customers to pay up... ::)
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I think it's going to come down to selling the 6.8 for either a .308 rifle or a .300 blk barrel.
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I think it's going to come down to selling the 6.8 for either a .308 rifle or a .300 blk barrel.
That's a tough call. What .308s you considering?
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Either a Savage bolt gun like the NFOA raffle gun or the new CMMG AR10.
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Either a Savage bolt gun like the NFOA raffle gun or the new CMMG AR10.
So you've bought your raffle tickets, right? ;)
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Yes....I need to win so I can afford the logical answer:
Get both.
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Well, I emailed Delta Company last night to see about the waiting list for their .300 blk barrels. I've heard they are really good quality, and you can get a hand lapped barrel for $170 that's supposed to be really accurate. That's dirt cheap, but I've also heard there's a long wait. Like the saying goes, you can have it done quickly, done cheaply, or done right. Pick any 2 of the 3.
For that price I could sell my 6.8 barrel and make the swap for no money out of pocket.
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BK and Wes... hurry up and get your 300 blackouts working, so i can shoot them and test it out. ive been tossing around the idea of a 300 blackout for varmit hunting, it'll work great with a suppressor.
i found out today on the 'net that you can shoot a 300 whisper out of a 300 blackout, but not the other way around.
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I talked to Delta Company this morning:
http://www.deltacompanyarms.com/products/.300-BLK-barrels,-AR%252d15.html (http://www.deltacompanyarms.com/products/.300-BLK-barrels,-AR%252d15.html)
Their supplier is running behind and they don't expect to have any SBR barrels before the end of the year. If you want a 16" they can get that now though. They're not taking orders, so they said to check back at the end of the year.
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OK, I just ordered a barrel from Ole's gun shop in Salem, OR. I was talking with some people on Arfcom and one of the guys there highly recommended them. I found some other good recommendations online so I gave them a call and talked to the gunsmith who produces them. He seemed very knowledgeable and had a lot of good recommendations so I went ahead and placed an order.
I'm going to be getting a 10.5" barrel built off of a Shilen blank, with pistol length gas and 1:8 twist to stabilize heavy subsonic bullets. Apparently if you're going to run suppressed subsonics in a barrel this short you need pistol length instead of carbine to function reliably. Kevin (the gunsmith) asked me to send in my bolt so he could headspace the barrel extension to my specific one. With AR's headspace usually isn't a problem as long as the extension is in spec, but he said proper headspace is critical to accuracy with this cartridge so he likes to headspace each one individually. According to him .5 MOA accuracy is pretty common with a good barrel in this cartridge, with some examples shooting as well as .25 MOA. Good thing I have an extra .223 bolt laying around.
Price should be around $220, which is dirt cheap for a Shilen barrel. He also chambers Green Mountain blanks for about $50 less but for that price I couldn't pass up the Shilen. It's not unheard of to pay twice that.
Guess I had better start working on that stamp for a can.
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Check this out. Pretty sweet. If you're not familiar with the Honey Badger joke just go to youtube and search for it. Honey Badger doesn't give a *#!% ;D
(http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/470/honeybadgersmall.jpg)
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So it's threaded same as a 223 barrel, right? Think that's same as a 9mm piston on an Osprey... ;)
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So it's threaded same as a 223 barrel, right? Think that's same as a 9mm piston on an Osprey... ;)
Nope, it's threaded 5/8-24, same as a .308 barrel. That's to keep you from running .308 caliber bullets through a .223 can or brake.
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Nope, it's threaded 5/8-24, same as a .308 barrel. That's to keep you from running .308 caliber bullets through a .223 can or brake.
That makes sense. While nothing is foolproof, that sounds pretty idiot proof. So you're looking at...
5/8x24 piston: $75
fixed barrel spacer: $45
45 Osprey: $850
Tax Stamp: $200
Add to that a little sales tax and the BATFEIEIO waiting period and you'll be in silent but deadly by next summer!
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I'm actually seriously considering a Form 1 to build my own can.
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I'm actually seriously considering a Form 1 to build my own can.
I'm actually seriously not surprised. :laugh:
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I'm actually seriously not surprised. :laugh:
Some day when I grow up I want to be a gunsmith.
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Some day when if I grow up I want to be a gunsmith.
There, fixed that fer ya. :D
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Got a call today, my barrel is in the mail.
(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080329191652/uncyclopedia/images/3/31/Dancing_Banana.gif)
I need to hurry up and get some dies ordered.
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Sweet. You better get that press running. So does this mean I should order a piston and fixed barrel spacer? ;)
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yes yes, and keep us filled in with build and reloading experiences and notes!
sounds like Ole's gunshop in Salem is awesome, too....
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Now if the ATF would just hurry up and send my stamps. 1 month and counting.
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i want 300BLK sooooooo bad. need to buy a barrel first.
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The barrel came this past week while I was out of town. I still need a pistol length gas tube, but I couldn't resist slapping together what I have so far.
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee412/alemonkey/IMAG0112.jpg)
Not sure what I'm going to do for an optic yet. I really like this 1.5-4x scope and I used it on my 6.8, but Leupold is coming out with a low power (1.5 -4 or so) scope that will have a dual BDC reticle for super and subsonic loads. I bet it will be pricey though.
With no optic or mag it weighs exactly 6lbs.
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that looks awesome! i think ill have to hit them up for a barrel. i can't seem to find a reasonably priced 300BLK barrel.
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I'm going to show my ignorance here, but what is MOA?
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Minute of Angle. It's a way of measuring accuracy. There are 360 degrees in a circle and 60 minutes in a degree. So if you start a cone at the rifle's muzzle and project it out to the target it gets progressively larger the further out you go. One minute is roughly a half inch at 50 yards, one inch at 100 yards , 2 inches at 200, etc. It allows you to consistently describe accuracy regardless of distance to target.
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I'm going to show my ignorance here, but what is MOA?
it is something that i can never achieve. ???
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Brain, what happened to "not if I want to stay married" ,lol. Can you run subsonics and supersonics reliably through the same rifle with no mods or is it pick one or the other? Of course POA, POI would be very different but that's up to the end user.
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Brain, what happened to "not if I want to stay married" ,lol. Can you run subsonics and supersonics reliably through the same rifle with no mods or is it pick one or the other? Of course POA, POI would be very different but that's up to the end user.
It was called selling off the old barrel so I could buy this one ;D
Apparently with pistol length gas in a short barrel you can run both. Worst case scenario is you need an adjustable gas block, but the guy who did my barrel said I should be fine without one.
I would really like a low powered scope with mil dots for this, so I can work out the holdovers for both loads and use the dots to adjust accordingly. I know holdovers aren't what mil dots are for but they do work for it.
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Hmm, maybe the SS SWFA 1-4? $$ though.