NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
General Categories => General Firearm Discussion => Topic started by: MattW on February 14, 2013, 01:34:47 AM
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Well I did not find out until recently that is completely legal to manufacture your own firearms for personal use as long as you do not sale or transfer these weapons to another person (and obviously as long as you do not make banned weapons, for example fully automatic weapons).
I have been doing more research on this and have found that you can buy 80% AR-15 Lower Receivers (paperweights) because these are not considered firearms until you cut out the rest of the receiver. The rest of the milling can be done with a drill press, the right bits, and some patience. You also can order (and will most likely need to) order a jig to make the process easier. Me and my friend are looking at each doing one or two of these this summer.
Have any of you done this before, or know somebody that has?
Here is site where you can buy one of these 80% lower receivers:
http://aresarmor.com/store/Item/TACMHL15 (http://aresarmor.com/store/Item/TACMHL15)
Here is a guide I will likely use to complete mine:
http://www.cncguns.com/projects/ar15lower80tutorial-2.html (http://www.cncguns.com/projects/ar15lower80tutorial-2.html)
The 80% receiver usually costs around $80, the jig can range anywhere between $100-200 depending on how good it is.
I know many people would say why do this when you can just buy an already made lower receiver for less money?
Well honestly it is a pretty good feeling knowing that you put some hard work into building your gun and also the satisfaction of owning a completely unregistered, unserialized, etc... gun that the government is completely clueless to its existence, and it is all 100% legal to do.
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I wish my husband had all of his machine shop stuff (cnc machine, lathes and such). It would be so easy for him to do ar-15 lowers and possibly the uppers as well. If the government had their way like they'd like that would probably be the only way to even have your own guns is to make them yourself. I'm sure there are blueprints on the net and elsewhere you could actually make your own or even make a blueprint from a gun that's already in service. Great idea with making your own.
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Don't forget to include the cost of coating the receiver when thinking about overall cost.
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I've always wanted to do this, but I don't have a mill. I would think using a drill press would give you some pretty rough results compared to a real mill.
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I recently talked to a guy that had access to a CNC machine etc. that had bought just a billet of the correct aluminium and he compel made his own, using a friends lower as a pattern.
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Home anodizing is actually not hard to do, from what I have read.
I need to buy a blank forging just so I have an excuse to buy a mill.
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(http://www.cncguns.com/images/AR15%20Jig%2080%25%20Lower%20Receiver%20Tutorial_3247.JPG)
I've always wanted to do this, but I don't have a mill. I would think using a drill press would give you some pretty rough results compared to a real mill.
Here are the results the guy got using just a drill press and some finishing touches with a dremel
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I recently talked to a guy that had access to a CNC machine etc. that had bought just a billet of the correct aluminium and he compel made his own, using a friends lower as a pattern.
You should tell him about this site www.cncguns.com (http://www.cncguns.com) they have 3D CAD models for all sorts of lower recievers and alot of other firearm related stuff.
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(http://www.cncguns.com/images/AR15%20Jig%2080%25%20Lower%20Receiver%20Tutorial_3247.JPG)
Here are the results the guy got using just a drill press and some finishing touches with a dremel
That's impressive. How do you thread the receiver extension area? That would be a big, expensive tap.
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Zero percent castings are also available for about $25. Then you do all the machining. A mill helps but is not absolutely necessary. I've done zero percenters on my manual mill. Nothing like the satisfaction of doing it yourself AND no paperwork.
Check out this site if you're interested in building your own firearms. These guys build a variety of guns and have some impressive results. You'll have to register but it's worth it. There is a lot of valuable information to be gleaned there.
http://www.weaponsguild.com/forum/index.php (http://www.weaponsguild.com/forum/index.php)
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That's impressive. How do you thread the receiver extension area? That would be a big, expensive tap.
Not as bad as you think... about $50-60 bucks. Many of the 80% lowers now come with those threads already cut so you don't need the tap.
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receiver extension area
That part comes done hence the 80% receiver part.
This is the part you buy and you cut the rest of the stuff out for the trigger grouping etc, no paperwork required.
(http://www.tacticalmachining.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/1/0/10004_600x600.jpg)
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Greetings all. I’m glad to see this post; I’m pretty excited about completing 80% lowers, and hope a lot of fellow Nebraskans are too!
I moved here 2 years ago from San Diego; I had to escape Kalifornia. And of course I’m a gun nut.
I visited the San Diego area last month; and completed my 80% lower at a ‘build party’ on a pair of CNC machines (it turned out great! Unanodized, so I'm going to Ceracote it...). There were about 25 other people that were completing their 80% lowers that day. It’s becoming really popular to build your own gun in Kalifornia.
What I’d like to do is get together with someone who has a CNC machine, who is a fellow AR enthusiast, and set up a program that would facilitate 10 people a day completing the milling on their lowers. In Kalifornia, the going rate for renting the CNC machine to complete your lower is $65. Cash. No names, just usernames. I’ve put a lot of thought into the logistics of the operation, and am even considering renting a space and buying a CNC machine to do it myself. But I’m a perfectionist, and would like to have some expert guidance to be able to turn out a perfect lower from the beginning rather than struggle with the learning curve of the machine and the programming.
Some of the things I’ve learned:
Ares Armor took my money for three 80% lowers in December. I have no idea when I’ll get them. About mid-January, I called them to cancel the order, and was told I would be able to cancel if I wanted, but they were going to be able to fill my order pretty soon. It’s been a month since then…avoid.
Tactical Machining: I’ve had a completed lower on order with them for 2 months. Lousy customer service; you can’t even talk to a person on the phone…avoid.
Elite Tactical: try them for a basic jig and for 80% lowers. I just sent them an email, and haven’t heard back…too soon to tell.
I just ordered two AR-15 complete lowers from Shadow Ops Weaponry…$125 each…but shipment won’t be until July. It'll be July before we know it...
Gunbroker has quite a few 80% lowers ‘in hand’…but expect to pay at least $300 for one.
CNCGuns has a jig that looks really good; I’m seriously considering buying one. This jig is made to be able to use just a drill press to complete a receiver to 100%. I’ll bet it works great; but I bet it’s slow. And it would be great for the ‘do-it-yourselfer’…but I’d like a CNC machine that my kids could use to do their own on too, in a relatively short amount of time (plus those 10 people a day I mentioned earlier…)
Sherline has a full CNC controlled milling machine that’s made in the USA; cost is about $2,600. It looks perfect for this. Anybody want to share on the cost?
EBay has instructional videos and drawings that might be helpful.
Now for the heavy/legal stuff. The ATF says it’s legal for an “unlicensed individual” to make a firearm; copy and paste, then scroll down: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/firearms-technology.html (http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/firearms-technology.html)
It states: “Individuals manufacturing sporting-type firearms for their own use need not hold Federal Firearms Licenses (FFLs).”
But it also mentions (referring to the import ban) “nonsporting features were the ability to accept a detachable magazine; folding/telescoping stocks; separate pistol grips; and the ability to accept a bayonet, flash suppressors, bipods, grenade launchers, and night sights.” So if I want to build a “non-sporting” type firearm, is that legal? Or is it legal to build just a sporting-type? Help anybody?
On a good note, if you’re making your own firearm, and you engrave “made in Nebraska” on it, our state legislature has a bill pending that should make you smile. Read Section 4 of LB 602: http://www.legislature.ne.gov/FloorDocs/103/PDF/Intro/LB602.pdf (http://www.legislature.ne.gov/FloorDocs/103/PDF/Intro/LB602.pdf)
So in summation: anybody that has an interest in turning 80% lowers into completed lowers (especially if you have a CNC machine!!!), please post or let me know.
Thanks for reading!!!
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If someone had the equipment I would be very interested in an 80% group buy and build party,
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Down for a group buy myself!
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So in summation: anybody that has an interest in turning 80% lowers into completed lowers (especially if you have a CNC machine!!!), please post or let me know.
HELL YES!
Fly
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Down for a group buy myself!
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Here's a good link for doing your own with a CNC machine. http://www.pagunblog.com/2011/11/17/cnc-machining-an-ar-15-lower/ (http://www.pagunblog.com/2011/11/17/cnc-machining-an-ar-15-lower/)
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Put me on the list for a group buy and party build. :D
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I will go in on a group buy also
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if and when you do a group buy, let me know. i'll make up my mind at that time.
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Hi Guys! Sorry I haven't been on in awhile. Glad to see there is interest in this! College and job has been pretty crazy for me lately but I have plans to do something like this, this summer. There is some CNC conversion kits for mills that can significantly reduce the cost of this project that I will be looking into. Chances are though I will be doing it by hand with the drill press which isn't honestly that bad just takes more time. Ill try to update when I figure out more. It may be sometime in May after classes are over before you hear from me next though :laugh:
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I would be interested in a group buy. Why is the CNC being treated as such a Holy Grail, the small amount of work lelt on a 80% receiver could be done easily on a conventional mill.
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I am in.
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IMO CNC only makes sense if you want to crank out a lot of work. For one off and limited production manual machine tools should be faster since you don't have to program it.
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I was going to do the 80% route...the the "paper weight".....like everything else firearm lately, no stock most out a year or more (one place was at four years). Then there is the basic shortage of parts to finish things out (not horrible, but still subject to speculator prices and availability). Then the problem with ammo.
Found a 3-D model that can be used to CAM to CNC from billet, but then there is the fixturing to build.
Would be OK for a keep-it-to-yourself build, but have seen plenty of issues with government attention when you try to share.
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I had a friend buy a few 80%ers from ares around thanksgiving and he just got them about 2 weeks ago. There were a few people at my work that bought them from there and they all had the same problem. Most of them canceled there orders and found them elsewhere.
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i keep seeing 80% lowers on rockethub.com. i want to jump in but afraid of the risks and being scammed.
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I'd be interested, too.
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http://aresarmor.com/store/Item/billet-ar15-80percent (http://aresarmor.com/store/Item/billet-ar15-80percent)
I did order and GET an 80% billet receiver from ARE about 10 days ago. Their site shows inventory and claims if it shows inventory..it ships. Took a chance and it took only a few days for the receiver to show up. The machine work appears to be very good quality. The price is a little excessive.
I saw over a dozen receivers in a case at the recent Sioux City gun show. There was something wrong with each of the receivers as far as machine issues...so, the $125 price tag was not worth the problems (errors in pivot/takedown holes. Incorrectly machined bolt release...etc.
Unless you have a milling machine (or access) finishing an 80% will require a drill press and a receiver specific drilling fixture (maybe another $125+). Almost $300 before a usable receiver plus labor is very expensive. It appears some of the parts places are starting to get a few things here and there.
Doing the finish work with a drill press would get the job done...put not particularly pretty and there will be a bit of a learning curve. I have done enough real machine work to understand some skill and experience would help with the drill press route.
Guess what I am saying is...weight your options and know your limitations. I am looking forward to doing my machine work, but I have a few years of experience and my own milling machines. Check out the videos on youtube and ignore the CNC vids unless you have a CNC machine.
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http://aresarmor.com/store/Item/billet-ar15-80percent (http://aresarmor.com/store/Item/billet-ar15-80percent)
I did order and GET an 80% billet receiver from ARE about 10 days ago. Their site shows inventory and claims if it shows inventory..it ships. Took a chance and it took only a few days for the receiver to show up. The machine work appears to be very good quality. The price is a little excessive.
I saw over a dozen receivers in a case at the recent Sioux City gun show. There was something wrong with each of the receivers as far as machine issues...so, the $125 price tag was not worth the problems (errors in pivot/takedown holes. Incorrectly machined bolt release...etc.
Unless you have a milling machine (or access) finishing an 80% will require a drill press and a receiver specific drilling fixture (maybe another $125+). Almost $300 before a usable receiver plus labor is very expensive. It appears some of the parts places are starting to get a few things here and there.
Doing the finish work with a drill press would get the job done...put not particularly pretty and there will be a bit of a learning curve. I have done enough real machine work to understand some skill and experience would help with the drill press route.
Guess what I am saying is...weight your options and know your limitations. I am looking forward to doing my machine work, but I have a few years of experience and my own milling machines. Check out the videos on youtube and ignore the CNC vids unless you have a CNC machine.
This is why we are/were hoping that someone like you would step up and let some of us guys interested in this use your mill/s. :D
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This is why we are/were hoping that someone like you would step up and let some of us guys interested in this use your mill/s.
Well...I am located near So. Sioux City (NE corner of NE). I don't mind sharing some machine time if someone is in need. Although I have a lot of machine experience...this is my first AR. I have collected a bit of data but am no expert on AR work.
I have a receiver that needs the FCG pockets machined, trigger pin, hammer pin and safety holes drilled.
First step will be making a mill/drill jig to hold the receiver. My receiver is a machined billet version and is a little different from the typical forging. Need to at least make the jig fit my receiver and possibly figure it out to work with forgings. My CNC mill is an older unit and does not have a tool changer (requires manual tool changes). Will need to program the machine operations. Ultimately want to cut an entire receiver (for no other reason than....cuz I can).
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Pic of ARE 80% receiver. PSA LPK (lower parts kit). Magpul CTR stock. Buffer tube ordered. Still don't know what the upper will look like (most likely M4 style), barrel size/type...etc, etc.
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I'm interested in a 80% or two for the right price (~$50 shipped seems fair).
Not really something I need at the moment, but would be nice to have a couple around. There are plastic ones for sale too: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/06/05/80-ar-15-polymer-lowers-polymer80/ (http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/06/05/80-ar-15-polymer-lowers-polymer80/) $70 is more than I'm willing to pay for a polymer 80%, but a cool idea.
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Im thinking about ordering soon from http://www.advancedrifles.com/ (http://www.advancedrifles.com/)
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I'm necromancing this thread to see if any more progress has come of this. I have found 2 places that have polymer 80% lowers that would theoretically be easier to machine. Just curious if anybody is still interested.
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I've tabled this idea for the time being. We can get blem lowers including parts kit for $110.
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Hello, My name is Brenden and I am new to the forum and this will actually be my first post. I have also been looking into the 80% receivers however I am thinking of building a .308 in the DPMS platform.
i keep seeing 80% lowers on rockethub.com. i want to jump in but afraid of the risks and being scammed.
I am in the same boat as you prices on rockethub especially for 308 stuff is unbeatable I've been following these guys for awhile http://www.rockethub.com/profiles/118904-northwest-precision (http://www.rockethub.com/profiles/118904-northwest-precision) and they have already shipped to their first customer and seem to be legit but I am still skeptical.
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I decided to take a chance and funded this one:
http://www.rockethub.com/projects/29659-ar-15-80-lower (http://www.rockethub.com/projects/29659-ar-15-80-lower)
If it falls through I'll be PO'd but it's not the end of the world.
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Well i went ahead and ordered one from Northwest Custom precision on rockethub now only time will tell!!
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I decided to take a chance and funded this one:
http://www.rockethub.com/projects/29659-ar-15-80-lower (http://www.rockethub.com/projects/29659-ar-15-80-lower)
If it falls through I'll be PO'd but it's not the end of the world.
Curses! That's a pretty good deal- I would have jumped on the Jig & lower for $90! Oh well- if anyone sees any other solid deals let us know.
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have a receiver that needs the FCG pockets machined, trigger pin, hammer pin and safety holes drilled. First step will be making a mill/drill jig to hold the receiver. My receiver is a machined billet version and is a little different from the typical forging. Need to at least make the jig fit my receiver and possibly figure it out to work with forgings. My CNC mill is an older unit and does not have a tool changer (requires manual tool changes). Will need to program the machine operations. Ultimately want to cut an entire receiver (for no other reason than....cuz I can).
I know this is an older post, but I live just down the road from you in Emerson, Ne. I would be very interested in meeting up and cutting a lower from a block of aluminum. I don't have a ton of machining experience, but I did go to community college a few years ago to become a machinist. Turned out it really wasn't for me (as a career anyway), but I am pretty good at drawing up plans on Solid-Works and several other CAD programs. I'd be willing to pay for the supplies to do a couple lowers if you wanted to give it a go.
I have put together a bunch of lowers, and even did an 80% with my friend using a jig bought from Brownells (we used a 2hp drill press and it turned out great). Think it would be pretty cool to get some guys together and give it a whirl.
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I know this topic is old but its what got me interested in joining the forum in the first place! For what its worth I own a business that distributes and makes Professionally Powder Coated 80% Lower Receivers for both AR15's and AR10's. I remember seeing someone ask about powder coating being effective so I thought I'd share! I'm new the Forums so forgive me if I'm breaking any etiquette!
Thanks!
www.powdercoatedar15.com (http://www.powdercoatedar15.com)
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So are you lowers mag wells larger for the extra build up form the powdercoat?
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I have an aluminum 80% however do not feel as if I can safely finish it out by myself, wondering if any of you in Omaha have the experience and maybe the tools to help me. Or would be willing to trade for an EP Armory 80% where I wouldn't need all the tools I would need for an aluminum one.
also anyone looking for an aluminum 80% on Omaha Gun Trader facebook page a guy bought like 12 of them during the whole "gun scare" and is trying to get rid of them. I got mine by trading some ammo and a little bit of cash to him.