NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
General Categories => Information Arsenal => Topic started by: JTH on January 26, 2015, 09:34:33 PM
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The problem with being on various types of social media is that you get to see all too many people make all too many claims about their shooting skills. The NFOA forum here is actually pretty cool, in that people pretty much only brag about what they've actually done (and that we've seen them do) and almost almost no one spouts nonsense about Real Training™ or uses the phrase "on the street"™ or discusses the importance of "stopping power" or "knockdown power" with respect to handguns.
We're in the minority. :(
This week, (elsewhere) I've seen quite a few people here and there brag about their firearms capability, heard others state they don't need classes in certain topics because they have already carried for years, and watched several other folks actually argue that their poor technique is actually the right way, and other people "just don't understand how Real Shooters do it."
So, new blog article on the PRT blog.
Note: This is NOT directed at people who already realize they don't know it all. Nor is it directed at people who know that their gun handling needs work. Those guys already know that there is always more to learn, that there is always someone better---and that being COMPETENT is the important thing. If you carry because you want to keep yourself and your loved ones safe, you can't settle for anything less than being competent.
And so many people don't have any idea.
https://precisionresponse.wordpress.com/2015/01/27/hey-special-snowflake/ (https://precisionresponse.wordpress.com/2015/01/27/hey-special-snowflake/)
This has some conceptual similarities to my How's Your Ego (http://"https://precisionresponse.wordpress.com/2014/10/17/hows-your-ego/") article awhile back, but that one was pretty much limited to competition shooting, and people who give excuses not to do it.
In this case---it really is directed toward people who are all sorts of impressed with themselves and their shooting/defensive skills, without any actual REASON for believing so.
How do you KNOW what you KNOW?
...because competency in defending yourself and your loved ones is too important to leave up to the illusions you have in your mind about your abilities.
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Hey, Special Snowflake, you're unique just like everyone else. :D
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Hey, Special Snowflake, you're unique just like everyone else. :D
Yep.
Of course, so many people think they are SPECIAL Special Snowflakes---EXTRA unique. All those "averages" and "probabilities" don't apply to them.
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I don't need any training to know that if I owned a Taurus Judge I could easily hit an intruder with it from 650 yards away! :D
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I don't need any training to know that if I owned a Taurus Judge I could easily hit an intruder with it from 650 yards away! :D
Exactly right.
Personally, I always suggest the S&W Alaskan in .500S&W for self-defense, since self-defense situations always occur at less than 7 yards, and knockdown power is obviously the most important thing.
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Personally, I always suggest the S&W Alaskan in .500S&W for self-defense, since self-defense situations always occur at less than 7 yards, and knockdown power is obviously the most important thing.
You can't do better than a .50 BMG Barrett converted to an SBR!
All joking aside, good article, and certainly not unique to the firearms world. Most people don't know what they don't know, but think they do, and I see that all the time in IT.
I can say after my first few IDPA matches I am really glad I never had to act in a self-defense scenario (or worse, one with hostages) because competition shooting really showed me my faults. I was floored at how poor my fundamentals became just because of the stress of being on the clock!
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If you aren’t a competition shooter, then you probably aren’t as good at shooting as you think you are. (If you are a competition shooter, that doesn’t mean you are automatically good—but it DOES mean you probably have a pretty good idea of how good you are.)
I wonder if this is why I can't any 'shooters' to do any competitions with me. :(
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I can say after my first few IDPA matches I am really glad I never had to act in a self-defense scenario (or worse, one with hostages) because competition shooting really showed me my faults. I was floored at how poor my fundamentals became just because of the stress of being on the clock!
Stress.
A little makes you default to your level of imbedded training with muscle memory.
A lot makes you make poor decisions slowly along with muscle freeze.
I still believe that the 98% of gun owners ( couch commandos ) have never delt with an adrenaline dump. And that is a dangerously negligent.
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This article makes good points and I agree completely that those who carry should get all the realistic training they can, and practical pistol competition is a good form for that training to take. But the article ignores the fact that a lot of people have had life and death experiences, that involve what it calls an adrenaline dump and having to stay calm and do their best, so they might know more about how they will perform than we think. For example, years ago one of my neighbors tried to commit suicide by hanging himself; his mother came up to his room and saw him hanging; she stayed very calm, cut him down, and called 911. She didn't panic and she saved his life. How many of us have had something happen suddenly when we were driving and had to react suddenly and do everything just right to avoid a crash, and found that we stayed calm and did everything right? I had a scaffold suddenly drop out from under me quite a few years ago when I was about 60 feet up; I caught myself, stayed very calm, and climbed back to the part that didn't collapse; I remember looking back and noticing the difficulty in the climb I had made and thinking at the time how it seemed like the easiest thing in the world. It scared the hell out of the other guys on the scaffold that didn't fall, but the one whose life was on the line didn't get scared. How many of us have had experiences like that? I think they give us an idea of how we'll do under stress in a life or death situation. Competition, on the other hand, is stressful, but it is not life or death.
I don't point this out to suggest that training is not a good thing; I say do all you can, and use competition to make the training as realistic as you can. Ammo is the most expensive hobby I have. But it seems like the concealed carry community is constantly telling us how we're going to be so scared we'll barely be able to move. Saying that gives a person the look of one with wisdom on the subject, so everyone wants to outdo each other about how scared we'll be. I'm not a psychologist, but I think this might have the effect of parents constantly telling their kids that they're stupid or bad or won't ever amount to anything. It's fine to let people know what to expect, but I think it's overdone sometimes. This article didn't overdo it, but other things I've seen did.
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Yep, I can shoot a quarter at 600 yards with my glock 23 open sights. Of course those are head shots. I'm the best. I know it all.
Until you go to a Rock your Glock or any other competition and get your a$$ handed to you on a platter.
Need to go to the ENGC and shoot one of those plate mates. And I know it will be another reality check. Also will also bet that something will be learn which I would become a better shooter.
Like Jimi Hendrix said: "Smart people talk, smarter people listen."
I'm all for listening, specially the people who are a lot better/smarter than me.
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But the article ignores the fact that a lot of people have had life and death experiences, that involve what it calls an adrenaline dump and having to stay calm and do their best, so they might know more about how they will perform than we think. For example, years ago one of my neighbors tried to commit suicide by hanging himself; his mother came up to his room and saw him hanging; she stayed very calm, cut him down, and called 911. She didn't panic and she saved his life. How many of us have had something happen suddenly when we were driving and had to react suddenly and do everything just right to avoid a crash, and found that we stayed calm and did everything right? I had a scaffold suddenly drop out from under me quite a few years ago when I was about 60 feet up; I caught myself, stayed very calm, and climbed back to the part that didn't collapse; I remember looking back and noticing the difficulty in the climb I had made and thinking at the time how it seemed like the easiest thing in the world. It scared the hell out of the other guys on the scaffold that didn't fall, but the one whose life was on the line didn't get scared. How many of us have had experiences like that? I think they give us an idea of how we'll do under stress in a life or death situation.
Stress in a life or death situation, yes---but that isn't the same as a self-defense situation. For example, I know a couple of people (medical folks) who are calm and collected in a crisis. In emergency situations in which people's lives were literally in their hands, they remained level-headed and rational.
Those same people, in a simple straightforward scenario, when faced with incipient direct violence, lost it and completely froze up.
This isn't to say that all medical people will lose it. Or that all people who demonstrate a cool head under stress WON'T keep that under direct threat of violence. Or that all people overall will lose it in those circumstances.
My point is simply that if you haven't dealt or practiced with direct violent threats, you don't know how you will handle it--because other types of stressors aren't the same.
It is like the people who suggest sprinting 50 yards then doing 20 fast pushups prior to shooting for stress training--the argument is that doing those exercises gives you the shakes and gets your heart rate up, the same as what happens during an adrenaline dump, so training that way is as good as scenario training.
But it isn't. That's not to say don't do that training, because anything that stresses you and tries to take your mind away from what is important will be useful practice, if done well.
But it is still NOT the same in terms of stress reactions. And there is a big difference between having a cool head in an impersonal crisis and having to verbally interact with a belligerent person who is potentially escalating to a direct physical altercation while you attempt to decide how to keep yourself safe.
If you haven't done it, you don't know.
Many people claim they know how they are going to react. But if they've never even done a single scenario, how could they know?
Competition, on the other hand, is stressful, but it is not life or death.
Don't believe I claimed it was. The stress aspect is good, but I did specifically mention that the competition aspect is more for rating your technical abilities.
I don't point this out to suggest that training is not a good thing; I say do all you can, and use competition to make the training as realistic as you can.
Personally, I don't consider any form of shooting competition I've seen to be even remotely realistic training for self-defense. I find them useful for all sorts of things---but realism is not one of them.
I realize that IDPA claims to be realistic, but that's really nonsense. When "turn around and walk away" isn't a viable choice, when no verbal interaction or choice-making is possible, and when moving into threats as fast as possible is the best way to win--it isn't realistic.
Don't get me wrong---I love competition shooting. I think it is a great test of shooting skills, and I STRONGLY suggest everyone try it at least once.
But it isn't self-defense training. IMO.
But it seems like the concealed carry community is constantly telling us how we're going to be so scared we'll barely be able to move. Saying that gives a person the look of one with wisdom on the subject, so everyone wants to outdo each other about how scared we'll be. I'm not a psychologist, but I think this might have the effect of parents constantly telling their kids that they're stupid or bad or won't ever amount to anything. It's fine to let people know what to expect, but I think it's overdone sometimes. This article didn't overdo it, but other things I've seen did.
There is a lot of that out there, isn't there? (I'm glad you think I didn't do that.)
A lot of that is bad information where we know better now--but people still trot out the "if your heart goes over 160 you won't be able to think or reason" and other nonsense. In some ways, it is similar to the "OMG! Common substance X causes cancer!" media blurbs we hear, in which factual research is misunderstood and shock/scare blurbs are created that don't actually mean anything, and that people parrot without understanding.
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Yep, I can shoot a quarter at 600 yards with my glock 23 open sights. Of course those are head shots. I'm the best. I know it all.
You have my attention, and I'd like to take your class, sir.
:)
Until you go to a Rock your Glock or any other competition and get your a$$ handed to you on a platter.
It's quite a shock for many people---and many walk away and never come back. They can't take the ego hit that happens.
Need to go to the ENGC and shoot one of those plate mates. And I know it will be another reality check. Also will also bet that something will be learn which I would become a better shooter.
This coming Sunday, Steel Challenge match! Probably the most useful match type in terms of testing the most important self-defense shooting skills, because it is all about drawing and getting accurate fast hits.
And it is a ton of fun. :)
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I realize that IDPA claims to be realistic, but that's really nonsense. When "turn around and walk away" isn't a viable choice, when no verbal interaction or choice-making is possible, and when moving into threats as fast as possible is the best way to win--it isn't realistic.
Have to agree with you there. IDPA is just a different competition with it's own set of rules. But I still enjoy playing the game. Can't touch USPSA matches though IMO.
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I have one Sensai do not disrespect him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp5W4RPDvWw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp5W4RPDvWw)
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I have one Sensai do not disrespect him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp5W4RPDvWw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp5W4RPDvWw)
Awhile back Lorimor posted some videos of that guy, and they were so train-wreck-fascinating that I had to look him up more.
It's got to be the best thing in the world to be that divorced from reality. Where his mind is, he's just about the most amazing person on the planet. Deadly, adventurous, strong, smart, prepared, helping others all the time---given who he thinks he is and what he thinks he has done, he's got to be the happiest person on the planet.
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Personally, I don't consider any form of shooting competition I've seen to be even remotely realistic training for self-defense. I find them useful for all sorts of things---but realism is not one of them.
I realize that IDPA claims to be realistic, but that's really nonsense. When "turn around and walk away" isn't a viable choice, when no verbal interaction or choice-making is possible, and when moving into threats as fast as possible is the best way to win--it isn't realistic.
Who would go to a shooting competition if no shooting was involved? :) We all know avoidance and evasion are the first and best options. :)
I do consider IDPA slightly more realistic as it does at least acknowledge the possibility of incoming fire, i.e., mandating the use of cover. Standing boldly in a doorway just doesn't set well with me. :)