NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
Ammunition & Hand Loading => Cartridge and Shotshell reloading => Topic started by: OnTheFly on October 27, 2013, 01:32:06 AM
-
I have been putting the press to good use. I have loaded just under 5K rounds of 9mm with my Dillon XL650 with case feeder. A few glitches here and there. For example, the primer assembly that screws up into the press had worked it's way out after only 1K rounds. That took about an hour of thinking, a call to Dillon, and nearly a dozen crushed primers, but I eventually got to the correct fix.
Other issues have been related to the wrong cases getting mixed in with the scrounged brass. On a related note, I think .380 auto and .380 super comp should be banned from all ranges. ;D
I have been using Federal primers, and I had previously been warned (by Dillon and fellow reloaders) that they are very soft. Tonight I experienced why. Attached are photos of a case that went "boom" when I seated the primer. The odd thing is that I have had several where the primer was snug going into the case, but the one that went boom didn't have any significant resistance. Other than being startled by the bang, and some ringing ears afterwards, nothing happened to me. However, I'm glad I was wearing eye protect in case something did go flying.
Just for fun, I have been timing my reloading and came up with the following averages after pumping out exactly 1,000 rounds in 1 hour 14 minutes 26 seconds.
- 13.42 rounds per minute
- 402.68 rounds every half hour
- 805.37 rounds per hour
The time did not include...
- Case prep
- Primer tube loading
But it did include...
- Pulling the press handle over 1,000 times
- Minor malfunctions (e.g. wrong cases, etc.)
- Replenishing the necessities (Reloading primer feeder, Filling powder drop, Filling the case feeder, Filling the bullet tray, etc.)
I have figured that at pre-panic prices, I will need to load around 8,000 rounds to break even on the cost of my reloading setup. At panic prices, I only need to load 5,000 rounds.
Fly
-
I have been using Federal primers, and I had previously been warned (by Dillon and fellow reloaders) that they are very soft.
Interesting...............
Reloading literature from Lee clearly sez "Don't use Federal primers in our equipment."
Federal's packaging kinda gives a hint: Bigger package w/more room between primers. To keep them from serially exploding, some say.
I'm with you on the .380 Exclusion. You can always tell when you've just de-primed a .380. Press handle goes limp.
Now you gotta go shoot some of that 9mm. Otherwise, you wind up with ice cream buckets full of the stuff. Ask me how I know.
sfg
-
.380 and 9x18 are the devil.
-
Fly, I have used Federal small pistol and large pistol for many years, and despite smashing a few dozen up like the one's in your pics, I have never had one detonate ...yet
-
Reloading literature from Lee clearly sez "Don't use Federal primers in our equipment."
Federal's packaging kinda gives a hint: Bigger package w/more room between primers. To keep them from serially exploding, some say.
Fly is using a Dillon press, but that doesn't make federal primers any harder. If case size is indicative of hardness, CCI must be bricks that case is so small :laugh:
-
If case size is indicative of hardness, CCI must be bricks that case is so small
I've heard stories of some CCI primers not igniting with lighter strikes. I guess I will find out because my next 5K primers are CCI brand.
Fly
-
Hey Fly- If you wouldn't mind, I would love to see a pic or three of your Dillon setup. I have a Rock Crusher and it would take me about 2 days of steady work to get through 1000 9mm. TBH - I am slow and methodical, after loading 100 .223 in over shouldered cases, I really dislike pulling bullets... I am also weighing every other charge or so... My RCBS Powder dispenser isn't known for its consistency. (+/- .4 max swings).
-
Hey Fly- If you wouldn't mind, I would love to see a pic or three of your Dillon setup. I have a Rock Crusher and it would take me about 2 days of steady work to get through 1000 9mm. TBH - I am slow and methodical, after loading 100 .223 in over shouldered cases, I really dislike pulling bullets... I am also weighing every other charge or so... My RCBS Powder dispenser isn't known for its consistency. (+/- .4 max swings).
All the statements above are the reason I decided to go with Dillon, the XL650, and added a case feeder. Here are some pics of my man cave.
Fly
-
Nice looking setup there!
I will have to see what the cost is for something like that. I will also need to do some research so I don't ask questions with easily found answers.
But, I can ask - Does everything work as it should if you do your part? Other than the primer issues, do you see common issues with the feeders and through die powder dispenser? Are the weights accurate?
-
Fly. if you can't resize those pics so that the page displays correctly I will have to delete them
-
Does everything work as it should if you do your part?
Yes. Once everything was put together and tightened, it has been consistent. The biggest problem I have had with the press was the primer assembly, but once I figured it out, it was easily solved and has not occurred again.
I was having some minor issues with quite a bit of powder collecting on top of the powder bar. The fit of the bar was just not tight enough and my ball powder WSF was getting through. One call to Dillon, and a new powder bar that was infinitesimally larger was in the mail, free of charge. Problem solved.
The other issue I had was with snapping of the shell plate snapping into position and slinging out powder. That was kind of messy and annoying. I tried tightening the bolt that holds down the shell plate, but that did not solve the problem. I purchased a bearing ring to place under the shell plate, and most of those problems are solved. If anyone wants to try this, do NOT by the $35 bearing from ebay. You can get it online or maybe even locally for considerably less.
Other than the primer issues, do you see common issues with the feeders and through die powder dispenser?
No consistent problems. I did have a de-capping die come apart on me. The case came out of the die with the sizing ring (at least I think that's what it was) permanently attached. I was using dry lube, and the case was a 9mm, so I'm not sure what happened there. Regardless...I contacted Dillon and a new die was sent to me free of charge.
Are the weights accurate?
Other than the adjustments I made to the powder drop during initial setup, I have not had to adjust the powder drop. I drop 5-10 charges before I begin each reloading session, and it always averages out to the 4.8 grains in my recipe.
Fly
-
Fly. if you can't resize those pics so that the page displays correctly I will have to delete them
Fixed!
Fly
-
Is the purpose of baking the casings to dry them?
-
Is the purpose of baking the casings to dry them?
Yes. I use Hornady's top line sonic cleaner with the larger capacity and dual transducers. I have a pretty dry basement, so if I just throw the wet cases in a towel, agitate them, and then lay them out to dry, I'm confident that in a few days they will be sufficiently dry. However, I don't have a TON of cases, so I got the oven to expedite the drying process just to make sure they will be completely dry.
Brass! It's what's for dinner!
The other benefits to sonic cleaning....
- No dust floating through the air that you are breathing
- I can also clean gun parts, jewelry, small carburetors, etc. if I use the right cleaning solution
- It does a pretty darn good job of cleaning the cases, in my limited experience. Talking to friend who has cleaned a lot of rifle cases with tumbling media, he was impressed with how good of a job my sonic cleaner does
The downside of the sonic cleaner is that it has a very high pitched buzz that can be pretty annoying. However, the case tumblers/agitators can also be pretty loud. Either way, it is something you would probably not want to be in the room for, if you can avoid it.
Regarding the convection oven...I set it on 250 and bake the cases for up to 20 minutes, agitate the cases to expose any liquid, and then bake for up to another 20 minutes. The other benefit is that I can use it for future projects such as heating Kydex, drying gun finishes (dura-coat?), etc.
Fly
-
Makes sense. I had forgotten you are using the sonic cleaner. I use media, and it does well enough for me, for now. While the vibration is loud, the TV can overcome it. Ha.
I'd be interested in knowing what accessories you picked up with it, besides the case feeder (218$!!!!!)?
The heavy duty mount? Special 3 piece dies, or the standard 2 piece sets? Extra bins?
Anyone have an XL650 to trade for a fully setup RockCrusher Supreme? 8)
-
I'd be interested in knowing what accessories you picked up with it, besides the case feeder (218$!!!!!)?
Here is what I ordered through Grafs. I have a dealer discount, so if you are looking to buy, I can get most items for a little lower than list. I believe I saved somewhere around $100 after shipping with my large order.
DILLON 9MM LUGER CASE GAGE
Item Number: DP15161 · Quantity in Cart: 1
DILLON LOW POWDER SENSOR, LIGHT/BUZZER WHEN < 1000g
Item Number: DP16306 · Quantity in Cart: 1
DILLON LOW PRIMER SENSOR, BUZZES WHEN EMPTY
Item Number: DP20302 · Quantity in Cart: 1
DILLON PICK UP TUBE SMALL PRIMER (PER 4 TUBES)
Item Number: DP20049 · Quantity in Cart: 1
DILLON RL650 WRENCH SET AND HOLDER
Item Number: DP11555 · Quantity in Cart: 1
DILLON STRONG MOUNT for XL650 PRESS ONLY
Item Number: DP22052 · Quantity in Cart: 1
DILLON XL650 9MM/38 SUPER /9x21 PRESS w/o DIES
Item Number: DP16944 · Quantity in Cart: 1
DILLON XL650 CASE FEEDER ASSY. 110volt, SML PISTOL
Item Number: DP21079 · Quantity in Cart: 1
GRAF PRIMER FLIP TRAY FOR RIFLE & PISTOL PRIMERS
Item Number: GR35 · Quantity in Cart: 1
HRN BULLET PULLER, KINETIC (HAMMER TYPE)
Item Number: HRN050090 · Quantity in Cart: 1
HRN L-N-L SONIC CLEANER 3 LITER STLSS STEEL 110VOLT
Item Number: HRN043340 · Quantity in Cart: 1
HRN LOCK-N-LOAD BENCH SCALE 1500gr 110/220 VOLT
Item Number: HRN050108 · Quantity in Cart: 1
INLINE FAB DILLON XL650 SKYLIGHT LIGHTING
Item Number: IFLEDSKY650 · Quantity in Cart: 1
DILLON 9MM CARBIDE 3 DIE SET
Item Number: DP14406 · Quantity in Cart: 1
DILLON ALUMINUM ROLLER HANDLE fits: 500/550/650
Item Number: DP17950 · Quantity in Cart: 1
HRN ONE-SHOT CASE LUBE 5.5oz AEROSOL 12/CS
Item Number: HRN9991 · Quantity in Cart: 1
Extra bins?
No. I just have the one that came with the press. For a bullet tray, I just bought a cheap one from Wally World. Works fine.
IMHO, the following are what I consider necessities if you want to crank out some rounds.
- Aluminum roller handle
- Extra primer pick-up tubes
- Low primer sensor
- Strong mount
- Case feeder
- Powder sensor (senses low powder in powder measure/hopper)
The "Skylight Lighting" is an LED light setup that has a strip light and a downwash light that is mounted to shine light on the shell plate. The downwash light fits in the center hole of the die toolhead to shine straight down on the shell plate. That is GREAT for my eyes that can't see in dim light like they used to.
Let me know if you, or anyone else here, would like me to get a quote for products at Grafs. Give me a list of the following...
- Product Description
- Item Number
- Quantity
I can then contact Grafs to find out what the final will be with shipping, and let you know. I don't add any extra for myself because I have to order a specific dollar amount each year to maintain the dealer discount. This helps me in the future when I want to order items for myself at a discount.
To get the best discount and fastest processing, I need to pay them with a money order or certified check, so I would ask you to pay me via pay-pal (method with no fee) or with certified check/money order.
I believe I can have it shipped directly to you since it will be paid in full.
Fly
-
.380 and 9x18 are the devil.
+1000
-
Thanks Fly! I will have to see if I can sell my RCBS Kit before I purchase another.
-
Yes. I use Hornady's top line sonic cleaner with the larger capacity and dual transducers. I have a pretty dry basement, so if I just throw the wet cases in a towel, agitate them, and then lay them out to dry, I'm confident that in a few days they will be sufficiently dry. However, I don't have a TON of cases, so I got the oven to expedite the drying process just to make sure they will be completely dry.
Brass! It's what's for dinner!
The other benefits to sonic cleaning....
- No dust floating through the air that you are breathing
- I can also clean gun parts, jewelry, small carburetors, etc. if I use the right cleaning solution
- It does a pretty darn good job of cleaning the cases, in my limited experience. Talking to friend who has cleaned a lot of rifle cases with tumbling media, he was impressed with how good of a job my sonic cleaner does
The downside of the sonic cleaner is that it has a very high pitched buzz that can be pretty annoying. However, the case tumblers/agitators can also be pretty loud. Either way, it is something you would probably not want to be in the room for, if you can avoid it.
Regarding the convection oven...I set it on 250 and bake the cases for up to 20 minutes, agitate the cases to expose any liquid, and then bake for up to another 20 minutes. The other benefit is that I can use it for future projects such as heating Kydex, drying gun finishes (dura-coat?), etc.
Fly
I wet tumble with stainless media and yesterday I was in a hurry to dry some cases so I laid them out on a tray and hit them with a heat gun for about 5 minutes. I made sure the case mouths were pointing towards me so the airflow would go in the neck and hopefully at least a little bit out the flash hole. After 5 minutes they were too hot to touch but completely dry.
I would never go back to dry tumbling. I wouldn't mind trying a sonic cleaner, but either way I really like the fact that wet cleaning eliminates the dust. I'm sure the dust from dry media is just loaded with lead. Plus, wet tumbling makes my cases look factory new. They don't shoot any better but they sure are pretty.
-
this sounds a little strange, but I have been doing it almost 35 years, if you use a tumbler to clean your brass, and get a lot of dust, I give the media a good squirt of charcoal grill lighter fluid, you wont believe the difference, and it also helps to cut ant grease that might be on the brass,
-
I'm sure the dust from dry media is just loaded with lead.
You are Absolutely Correct on this item. A cloud of lead dust is suspended for a coupla feet above a vibrating tumbler.
ALWAYS keep the lid on w/dry media.
BTW, it's a good idea to get tested for lead every year w/your annual physical. Hardly costs anything extra, and establishes a baseline for yourself, should you ever need it.
And--assuming your BLL is low (under 10micrograms/deciliter)--it will provide a certain Peace of Mind.
sfg
-
this sounds a little strange, but I have been doing it almost 35 years, if you use a tumbler to clean your brass, and get a lot of dust, I give the media a good squirt of charcoal grill lighter fluid, you wont believe the difference, and it also helps to cut ant grease that might be on the brass,
I use 50-50 mineral spirits and NuFinish car wax
-
I use 50-50 mineral spirits and NuFinish car wax
Back when I used to dry tumble I used dryer sheets to keep the dust down.