NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
Ammunition & Hand Loading => Cartridge and Shotshell reloading => Topic started by: OnTheFly on September 01, 2014, 01:12:46 PM
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I posted this in another thread, but it apparently went unnoticed. I am posting it in a new thread because I would really like to hear what others think.
I picked up some once fired 9mm brass at the range that was military surplus with crimped primers. I read that others were able to reload it without removing the crimp, so I thought I would try it. Most primers went in easy, but a couple made quite the crunching noise when I seated it. I had heard/felt this before, so NOW I know what was causing it. Regardless, they all worked.
During this trial, I realized that the soft(er) X-Treme bullet tips were being slightly deformed by my (seating?) die. I don't remember seeing this before on my earlier reloads with these bullets. A few questions.
Has anyone else experienced this?
Does it cause any issues with the accuracy of the bullet?
Are the military surplus cases just more stout causing more resistance than standard factory cases?
ETA: Added a couple pictures of one of the worst dimples, though the others are not a lot better..
Thanks,
Fly
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Fly, I have been using Berry's bullets by the thousands in 9, 40 and 45. Have not noticed any deformation with that brand. Been thinking about trying the X. I doubt a bit of deformation on the tip will effect accuracy any noticeable amount at normal practice and competition distances.
Out past 50 yards I can't say but I think bullet drop would be more of a concern. Just my humble opinion.
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Just my humble opinion.
And a much appreciated opinion. Thanks!
Fly
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I've been using Berry's in .380ACP, 9MM and .45ACP and have never had an issue. I'd say there is something wrong with your seating die. Did you try taking it apart to inspect the innards of it? There might be something in there, or it is broken somehow.
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Which brand of dies are you using for these? Did it comes with a couple different seating stems? Some will comes with two stems to match the profile of the bullet. Maybe you have the seating stem for HP/SWC and hadn't noticed an issue with a harder profile bullet before?
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Which brand of dies are you using for these? Did it comes with a couple different seating stems? Some will comes with two stems to match the profile of the bullet. Maybe you have the seating stem for HP/SWC and hadn't noticed an issue with a harder profile bullet before?
Dillon dies. I Will have to check and see if it came with more than one.
Fly
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Many times seating dies will come with insets for either roundnose or flat nose bullets, my guess is that you are using the flatnose insert combined with a minimal/non-existant belling operation.
I doubt you will notice the difference out of a duty type 9mm
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I reloaded 30 test loads this afternoon did not have any bullets that looked like these. I did get a few crooked going in the case and sheared off the side of the bullet.
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if your shearing the bullet, you may need a slightly larger expander, check the bullet diameter and make sure they didn't make a mistake and the bullets are to big around, this could also cause your dented nose
or your expander is undersized and not making the brass big enough
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I will look at that. I am using a used set of RCBS dies purchased from a show. I will measure some cases tomorrow when get out of class and head to the range to shoot these rounds. I was thinking I needed a bit more of flare. It wasn't on every case but I was struggling with it.
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It wasn't on every case but I was struggling with it.
Different amounts of case mouth flare can result from slightly different cartridge case lengths. Longer cases are flared more; shorter cases are flared less. Slightly different case lengths in a batch often result from mixing different headstamps (manufacturing variance).
And under-flaring the case mouth will often cause bullet shearing. The flare can be increased by turning the expander die stem down in small increments until the desired flare is obtained.
BerrysBulllets usually have enough of a rounded base to seat without flaring the case, which is a very tedious operation in a single-stage press. (Not an issue in a progressive). However, every so often (say 1/100), a "fatter" BerrysBullet caused by a bit heavier plating may be encountered. Those bullets often shear when being seated.
Like most other folks have said here, those dimpled bullets will probably shoot OK within standard handgun hole-punching range, say less than 20 yards.
sfg
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To solve your primer problem, acquire a set of RCBS swageing dies to remove the crimp.
This is as fast as sizing the cases and will totally eliminate any primer seating problems. A slight more flaring will solve your scrapeing problem. At the seating operation shut the flare just enough to make the case straight since all these cartridges head space on the mouth of the case. You will be able to produce very fine ammunition this way :)
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Thanks Shooter, SFG and Poor Man! I will take some measurements tomorrow and increase my flare a bit when I run my next batch. I need to get moving need to have a couple hundred ready to go for the DC Shootout at the end of the month. I also have several hundred 223 extreme bullets to get loaded.
FLY sorry to jack you thread! Glad I wasn't the only one having some issues today! :)
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FLY sorry to jack you thread! Glad I wasn't the only one having some issues today!
I know right?! I'm glad tstuart34 is getting HIS reloading problems solved. :laugh:
Many times seating dies will come with insets for either roundnose or flat nose bullets, my guess is that you are using the flatnose insert combined with a minimal/non-existant belling operation.
I will check the die. If the dimpling doesn't happen with other cases, could it be that these military surplus cases are a bit more stout and it requires more force to seat them? This combined with minimal flaring?
Fly
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The Dillon dies come with both a round nose and a semi-wad cutter into the bullet seating die stem.
From Dillon's website http://www.dillonprecision.com/content/p/9/pid/24469/catid/4/Dillon_Seating_Dies (http://www.dillonprecision.com/content/p/9/pid/24469/catid/4/Dillon_Seating_Dies)
We've incorporated a "flip-flop" seating stem and a clip that enables you to remove the die insert and change the seating stem from round nose to semi-wadcutter without unscrewing a seating stem out of the die body. We've always included both types of seating stems, but the new double-ended design makes it a simple matter to remove a pin,
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The Dillon dies come with both a round nose and a semi-wad cutter into the bullet seating die stem.
From Dillon's website http://www.dillonprecision.com/content/p/9/pid/24469/catid/4/Dillon_Seating_Dies (http://www.dillonprecision.com/content/p/9/pid/24469/catid/4/Dillon_Seating_Dies)
SWEET! Thanks. This sounds a lot easer than I thought it was going to be. That may have saved me from pulling out the Dillon instructions, which is strictly against the man code.
Fly
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"She's got dimples on her BUT(T), she's pretty...."
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Several people (here and on a national forum) have suggested that I check the seating die stem to make sure it was set up for RN bullets. I was thinking about when I set up the press over a year ago, and it started to come back to me. I remember reading about that, but at the time I thought the instructions said the press came from the factory set up for RN. It wasn't. I went back to read the instructions, and it just said to check to make sure it was set up for the correct type of bullet.
So after manufacturing over 7,000 rounds with the wrong die stem, it finally became apparent with a softer (than FMJ) bullet. All of those first reloads were seated straight with a consistent OAL. Not a single one had anything odd about it, and they all functioned fine.
Thanks to all who suggested checking the seater stem.
Fly
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"She's got dimples on her BUT(T), she's pretty...."
Is that like a "Butt(h)er face"?
Fly
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Before I sold my 9mm Nano I reloaded several hundred rounds of ammo with BerryBullets. I always flared my casing and never had any problems seating the bullet and crimping the case. I used the single stage Lee Anniversary press and dies.
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If the dimpling doesn't happen with other cases, could it be that these military surplus cases are a bit more stout and it requires more force to seat them? This combined with minimal flaring?
Fly
Could be, I have noticed that I will occasionally run into a case that takes a bit more oomph to seat than most.
It never bugged me enough to investigate, especially since the brass I am reloading ( 9mm ) has multiple headstamps along with who knows how many loadings.
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Before I sold my 9mm Nano I reloaded several hundred rounds of ammo with BerryBullets. I always flared my casing and never had any problems seating the bullet and crimping the case. I used the single stage Lee Anniversary press and dies.
I had several Berry's skin the plating off when I first started reloading. I thought it was the bullets.
Next batch of Berry's I noticed the bullets were "slicker" like they had been pre lubed. They did not skin at all.
I since have gone to giving them a little spray of Hornady's bullet lube.
Haven't any problems since that first batch and changed nothing else.
I do NOT flare the cases at all. I only use the full length case sizer from Lee.
I then always use the Lee Factory Crimp die.
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I do NOT flare the cases at all. I only use the full length case sizer from Lee.
A few people have told me that shaving off some of the plating is a result of not enough flare, but it is interesting that the lube makes the difference. Just curious, have you ever pulled a pulled to see what is happening under the case rim?
Fly
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A few people have told me that shaving off some of the plating is a result of not enough flare, but it is interesting that the lube makes the difference. Just curious, have you ever pulled a pulled to see what is happening under the case rim?
Fly
Yes and it is smooth as a baby's butt.
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Actually, dimpling the bullets like a golf ball might actually improve ability to maintain velocity, though only the ogive would be dimpled.
Mythbusters showed it was of some significance in increasing gas mileage in a car.
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Actually, dimpling the bullets like a golf ball might actually improve ability to maintain velocity, though only the ogive would be dimpled.
Mythbusters showed it was of some significance in increasing gas mileage in a car.
You know, I guess my choice of words was poor. I don't think what I was seeing could be classified as "dimples". It was more like "nipples". ;D
Fly