NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
Ammunition & Hand Loading => Cartridge and Shotshell reloading => Topic started by: abbafandr on January 11, 2015, 04:40:59 PM
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I load 9mm. So far all I've loaded is plated or jacketed projectiles. What would be different in loading lead bullets. I load on the light end of the specs.
Thanks in advance for your input.
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The process is the same as jacket and plated. Plated is very close to plain lead. Plain lead is generally .001" larger in OD. Obviously the load depends on bullet weight and simply following a reloading guide and working up in the range of powder choice is required (same as jacket and plated).
Are you planning on casting your own or manufactured bullets?
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Manufactured
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sometimes you get little peels of lead that clog up your seating die, be sure to check for that, it will change your seating depth
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Manufactured
As in nearly any bullets, the manufacturer usually has reloading data. However, most reloading data has a "lead" version of bullet grain to start/never exceed with various powders. Often a case of having a lot of manuals or doing some internet research (which should be double checked...for error).
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sometimes you get little peels of lead that clog up your seating die
Yeah......... Lead bullets are more sensitive to this shaving condition because the lead is (obviously) softer than a copper jacket or plating. Good way to deal with it is monitor the cartridge case mouth flaring/belling operation to ensure that it's just right:
(a) Large enough bell to allow the lead bullet to seat without shaving lead and
(b) Not too large, such that the brass cartridge case mouth is work-hardened, leading to case mouth splits.
Like anything fairly important, gotta walk that middle line which combines both sufficiency and moderation.
I load on the light end of the specs.
Also, cartridges w/lead bullets generally are best loaded at low-end velocities (1000fps or less) so that the lead doesn't cook off into the barrel and redeposit when it cools. Which gums up the works. Or--as a minimum--is just plain hard to clean. Nothing removes lead easily, neatly, and well.
FWIW, many reloaders won't mess with making, reloading, and shooting lead bullets because the economy just isn't there. Add to that consideration the significant additional time required to mess w/lead bullet manufacture, breathing lead fumes, scrounging for surplus/scrap lead, etc., etc.
Which is how BerrysBullets got to its prime position in the bullet market.
Nevertheless.......................It's all fun.
sfg
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Yeah......... Lead bullets are more sensitive to this shaving condition because the lead is (obviously) softer than a copper jacket or plating. Good way to deal with it is monitor the cartridge case mouth flaring/belling operation to ensure that it's just right:
(a) Large enough bell to allow the lead bullet to seat without shaving lead and
(b) Not too large, such that the brass cartridge case mouth is work-hardened, leading to case mouth splits.
Like anything fairly important, gotta walk that middle line which combines both sufficiency and moderation.
Also, cartridges w/lead bullets generally are best loaded at low-end velocities (1000fps or less) so that the lead doesn't cook off into the barrel and redeposit when it cools. Which gums up the works. Or--as a minimum--is just plain hard to clean. Nothing removes lead easily, neatly, and well.
FWIW, many reloaders won't mess with making, reloading, and shooting lead bullets because the economy just isn't there. Add to that consideration the significant additional time required to mess w/lead bullet manufacture, breathing lead fumes, scrounging for surplus/scrap lead, etc., etc.
Which is how BerrysBullets got to its prime position in the bullet market.
Nevertheless.......................It's all fun.
sfg
So what you are saying is that I cant shoot a hard cast lead (read Non-swaged) bullet to magnum speeds of say 1400 fps without problems. I find this very interesting.
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you can shoot them faster with gas checks, but you get to a point where the softer lead cant grab the rifling in yor barrel, and they will just blast strait down it, and really lead your barrel bad.
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Understand the gas check, my point is if I shoot a commercial hard cast of 18-21 Bhu then my hard cast lead is actually harder than a Berrys, as they advertise only a 20 Bnh on the jacket, not suitable for magnum loads. I have some 22 Bnh in 41cal that I would have no qualms of pushing 1400 with no gas checks, no leading. BTDT many times, damn good 100 yard deer load out of a Blackhawk.
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Buy a barrel snake cleaning rope for your pistol. (I prefer one slightly over sized myself).
I've done both home done lead and missouri bullet company lead in my progressive.
Be a bit aware of shaving possibilities. As in, maybe add a bit more bell/flare to your case and make a more conscious effort to get the bullet vertical.
That's about it for loading concerns.
Shooting concerns - you'll have to work up a load that suits your gun. By suiting your gun, I'm referring to produces the least lead fouling.
It's by no means a linear graph for powder weight to fouling. Hell, it's a zig zag of a line.
Basically, load up a dozen rounds at a given powder weight. Change it by 0.1 or 0.2 grains and load up another dozen. Do this a few times so that you have, say, 5 or 6 loads to test. Hell, maybe even a dozen. Up to you.
Now that you have your loads boxed and labeled. Pack up your cleaning snake and head to the range.
1) make sure your barrel is clean (field strip and inspect)
2) shoot a couple rounds
3) inspect barrel, make note of condition. use a cell phone to take a pic maybe ?
4) shoot the rest of the rounds for that recipe
5) inspect / note / pic
6) run that cleaning snake through a bunch of times and get her clean.
7) switch loads and start over again
If you feel that your first magazine is at unfair (dis-)advantage, you could always make up two magazines of them and run them again at the end of your sessions to inspect again etc.
You'll note that things can be 'ugly', 'not so bad', 'purty', 'hideously ugly', 'not bad', 'hideously ugly', etc. Don't expect your results to make any sense.
At then end of a lead shooting day, I'll usually put a few plated rounds through in rapid succession and give'er a good snake'in quickly while things are hot.
You'll want something like:
(http://www.alhadaf-kw.com/uploaded_files/2013/18/7705af95c5dc497994311878bfb425f1.jpg)
Be careful with bluing though (it can be hard on it). You can also just get the paste and make your own etc etc etc.
But on a stainless gun, the above stuff is godly.
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So what you are saying is that I cant shoot a hard cast lead (read Non-swaged) bullet to magnum speeds of say 1400 fps without problems. I find this very interesting.
Not So Saying............. Not at all.
sfg
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Quote (selected)I load on the light end of the specs. Also, cartridges w/lead bullets generally are best loaded at low-end velocities (1000fps or less) so that the lead doesn't cook off into the barrel and redeposit when it cools.
"Loading to the light end of the specs" is not necessarily a speed thing. Granted the bullet speed is related to speed loading at the lower grain weight in a particular powder/bullet weight range for a particular data sheet and even going to the higher range (near "never exceed grains") may produce a cartridge that never exceeds 1000 fps. Good example is .45 ACP where 700-900 fps may be a full range for a given bullet weight and powder. You may never want to get over 750 fps with many .45 loads.
Even in 9mm there are a lot of sub 1000fps loads with heavy 147 grain lead nearly everything will be under 1000fps.
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As an aside, you could always powder coat your lead >:D
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So what you are saying is that I cant shoot a hard cast lead (read Non-swaged) bullet to magnum speeds of say 1400 fps without problems. I find this very interesting.
He didn't say anything of the sort.
He said, directly:
Also, cartridges w/lead bullets generally are best loaded at low-end velocities (1000fps or less) so that the lead doesn't cook off into the barrel and redeposit when it cools. Which gums up the works. Or--as a minimum--is just plain hard to clean. Nothing removes lead easily, neatly, and well.
But since you quoted that, I assumed that you read it.
He said pretty clearly that higher velocities with lead bullets gives you increased leading of the barrel. Which it does...which also will contribute to more firearms problems than barrels that have less lead deposited in them.
People CAN shoot what they want. And some of the things that people like to shoot simply mean they are going to have to clean their guns more often, or risk issues.
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Unless you're very lucky, you'll have to deal with lead residue in your barrel after firing lead projectiles. Generally speaking, the lube selected by commercial casters is done with an eye on durability in shipment and resistance to melting during shipment. These lubes are not usually the best bullet lube, depending on a variety of factors.
Bullet diameter and alloy hardness are two more factors. You can control velocity, but often, you'll have to deal with leading anyway.
Outers used to sell the "Lead Out" electronic doohickey which removed lead through electrolysis. Pretty neat little device. Sadly, the solutions for it are no longer sold. It was probably killing something somewhere.
Therefore, nowadays the best way to remove lead involves elbow grease. Get a used bore brush, smaller than you would use for your handgun, cut up some COPPER (NOT copper plated steel!) Chore Boy scrubbers and wrap some strips of the Chore Boy around the brush and start scrubbin'. For example, I use a 9mm brush in my .45's. It doesn't take long to remove all kinds of leading from the barrel. I haven't found any chemicals that really take out lead well.
Or, go with bullets that are coated with the HyTec coating from Black Bullets International or MO Bullet Co. or Black n' blue bullets. (There are probably more casters out there using it.) The HyTec coating is the cat's meow IMHO. It comes in a myriad of colors and looks cool in a loaded round. Naturally, black is best as it looks wicked and ceases any and all Critical Dynamic Incidents immediately.
Most of those outfits will let you order a small sample to trial.
Much less leading and much less smoke, which disappoints the IDPA SO's to no end. :)
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Unless you're very lucky, you'll have to deal with lead residue in your barrel after firing lead projectiles.
Lewis lead remover tool:
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/learn/learndetail.aspx?lid=10713 (http://www.brownells.com/aspx/learn/learndetail.aspx?lid=10713)
Say what you like, but if you are reloading, casting your own boolits is fun. Then you can start looking at swaging.....
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After you find a load that produces the least fouling, I honestly don't think you'll need fancy tools to get rid of the fouling.
I've not needed any.
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Lewis lead remover tool:
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/learn/learndetail.aspx?lid=10713 (http://www.brownells.com/aspx/learn/learndetail.aspx?lid=10713)
Say what you like, but if you are reloading, casting your own boolits is fun. Then you can start looking at swaging.....
I've often thought about casting my own. What stops me is a steady, reliable source of lead. Seems like it's all spoken for and buying lead alloy cuts into the savings from pouring my own rather quickly.
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Looking at black and blue bullets. Holding out for hot pink :laugh:
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I've often thought about casting my own. What stops me is a steady, reliable source of lead.
Considering the most recent fiasco (government economic increase via control scare) having at least a small stash of lead could be the difference between 'ammo or no ammo'. Considering the recent loss of national lead production (thanks EPA...and stupid manufacturing process) it may be a good idea to plan ahead. But, just being able to make the whole thing from scratch (at least as much as a person can reduce that to) can be pretty satisfying. Even consideration of alternate materials will become more important as various agencies take away everything harmful.
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He didn't say anything of the sort.
He said, directly:
But since you quoted that, I assumed that you read it.
He said pretty clearly that higher velocities with lead bullets gives you increased leading of the barrel. Which it does...which also will contribute to more firearms problems than barrels that have less lead deposited in them.
People CAN shoot what they want. And some of the things that people like to shoot simply mean they are going to have to clean their guns more often, or risk issues.
Damn Dude, only wanted a discussion. Wow.
Shooter,
gas checks are only needed when running mag speeds with soft bullets. Hard casts in the 14 to 18 range will suffice 1800+ with proper fit and lube.
Semper
Hard casts at 9 mm speeds @ max loads, with what's available lincoln/ Omaha are a no leading problem as most are running 16 hardness.
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Semper
Hard casts at 9 mm speeds @ max loads, with what's available lincoln/ Omaha are a no leading problem as most are running 16 hardness.
Which could be good information for any Forum visitors who want to shoot lead but might have held back because they've heard of leading problems.
FWIW, I finally shot up my last ice cream bucket of .38SPCL lead wad cutters and can now try to figger out how to get the lead deposits off the muzzle and cylinder fronts on my S&W Model 19. Without taking off the bluing along with it.
From here on in, it's all jacketed and plated bullets for me.
And--of course--anybody else can shoot whatever they want and be happy.
sfg
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FWIW, I finally shot up my last ice cream bucket of .38SPCL lead wad cutters and can now try to figger out how to get the lead deposits off the muzzle and cylinder fronts on my S&W Model 19. Without taking off the bluing along with it.
Well after 30 years of reloading and shooting hard casts I could tell you a very simple way to do that, But you might get your nose further out of joint and wont be able to breathe.
And might as well throw away 5000 rounds of 22's that have unplated lead bullets before they ruin my pistols and rifles.
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Damn Dude, only wanted a discussion. Wow.
Actually, you took what he said out of context and put words in his mouth. It didn't look like much of a discussion.
Well after 30 years of reloading and shooting hard casts I could tell you a very simple way to do that, But you might get your nose further out of joint and wont be able to breathe.
And might as well throw away 5000 rounds of 22's that have unplated lead bullets before they ruin my pistols and rifles.
And in a similar fashion, not much for discussion. If you assume that other people have experience also, and it differs from yours, having a discussion generally involves attempting to find out what the differences are and why, as opposed to assuming you are right, getting pissy about it, and making negative comments about others.
If nothing else, stopping the ridiculous commentary like "And might as well throw away 5000 rounds of 22's that have unplated lead bullets before they ruin my pistols and rifles." might be a plan.
Though if you want to get rid of those, I'll take them.
After all, no one has said "don't shoot lead." They've said, "when shooting lead, be careful of increased leading, and make sure to clean as necessary."
(As an academic comment, "making the lead used harder" is often not the solution for leading issues. Grant Cunningham has a pretty good article on the basics regarding bullet hardness here (http://www.grantcunningham.com/blog_files/15e296c61415e831fecfe8fddcc1dc92-414.html), though there isn't anything about how bullet lube or sizing can make a difference, among other things. Another discussion by Glen Fryxell can be found here (http://www.sixguns.com/crew/castbullet.htm).)
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Hi all was thinking of reloading just for me not for sale I have a question I was looking up and can not find anything on reloading for example does someone need a type of permit or license to reload their own ammo maybe someone can point me in the right direction thank you
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Nope - you do not need any kind of paper work to load your own ammo.
Patience and attention to detail are required though.
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Thank you I am starting from the basics and working my way up
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Basics
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Enjoy . But definitely don't rush things. Any questions, there are a number of highly knowledgeable reloaders here. Kinda new myself
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Right on ty. Not doing. That many calibers just 9mm and. Like 50@ a time for load testing
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b don't worry, youll get into the swing, I got 6 loaders, plus 4 for shotguns. LOL I load 68 different cals, and cast 45 different lead bullets
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Thank you I am starting from the basics and working my way up.........
Lots and lots of reloading videos on YouTube.
Some are quite good and others are clearly not. You will quickly pick up on which is which.
Might be of help to you as you start your new venture.
It all starts with a good, solid manufacturer's reloading manual.
sfg
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HiTek coated bullets are your friend, my friend. GREATLY reduced smoke, dramatically cleaner gun at the end of the day and virtually no leading. (Actually, I can detect NO leading.)
Like lead bullets, the case mouth has to be expanded enough to avoid shaving off the coating as you seat the bullet.
Coated bullets are available from several manufacturers. HiTek coating itself can be purchased from Bayou Bullets and you can coat 'em yourself if you're the adventurous type.
(https://scontent-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/t31.0-8/11155129_443668019125367_415868565505947960_o.jpg)
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......you can coat 'em yourself if you're the adventurous type
Oboy.............
When unfy gets to that part, he'll immediately dump his Great Plated Bullet Caper and develop a Totally Brannew Obsession.
sfg
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Oboy.............
When unfy gets to that part, he'll immediately dump his Great Plated Bullet Caper and develop a Totally Brannew Obsession.
sfg
Well, I still have designs on the plated bullets stuff, just... haven't fiddled recently.
I've got 'the bullet casting cart' all cut up and grooved and stuff. Need to drill holes, sand, and .... actually... do I want to polyurethane it ? I dunno. Is poly coating flamable ? Would hot lead splatter be a bad thing ? Hmmmmm.
Anyway, cart is about done, after which I'll cast a whole bunch of bullets and then figure out how I wanna try to mass powdercoat stuff :D Prolly just do it patiently 40-50 bullets at a time.
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don't use polyurethane. the hot led drips will melt into it and give you trouble, bare wood is best.
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don't use polyurethane. the hot led drips will melt into it and give you trouble, bare wood is best.
Done. Thanks. My previous things were all bare wood as well - was just gonna try to 'pretty' this thing up a bit. Of the good news - on less step and means I can finish making the cart any time I please :D
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If lead fouling is a concern you might look over the link below. Missouri Bullet sells this from their site and it seels like a pretty good product for removing lead. They are also selling Hy-tek coated bullets now which they werent the last time I bought from them. I might give them a try since I am in the market for some more 45's.
Ron
http://missouribullet.com/results.php?category=7 (http://missouribullet.com/results.php?category=7)