NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
General Categories => Carry Issues => Topic started by: lunchbox on October 21, 2014, 09:07:51 PM
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Im sure this has been discussed in length, but the search function here seems to be less than stellar. If I read correctly on the original 2006 legislation. A handgun that is allowed with a CHP in Nebraska is considered anything with a barrel shorter than 16” and made to be fired with one hand.
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I just came across this and was surprised there wasn't even 1 reply.
That is an interesting little tidbit.
So, does that mean one COULD conceal a rifle, even without a CHP (since the H stands for Handgun, apparently)?
Or does that mean one cannot conceal a rifle at all?
Admittedly, concealing a rifle is difficult but not impossible.
Since having a rifle in a case is a form of "concealment" I would assume rifles are basically exempt then.
Makes my head hurt.
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If I expect enough trouble that I have to carry a rifle,. I aint goin there, I got a H&K 53 copy, 8.3 inch barrel 223, but damn, if you expect that much trouble, you better be going in as part of a fire team,
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Title 272 Chapter 21 002.07 "Handgun" shall mean any firearm with a barrel less than sixteen (16) inches in length or a firearm designed to be held and fired with one hand.
MY OPINION ... the intent of the above statement would DISALLOW the concealed CARRYING of a long gun ..... that being said, it would be allowable to carry an AR/AK variant pistol .... and that's a lot of firepower :)
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So, does that mean one COULD conceal a rifle, even without a CHP (since the H stands for Handgun, apparently)?
Let's Look it Up:
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28-1202. Carrying concealed weapon; penalty; affirmative defense.
(1)(a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, any person who carries a weapon or weapons concealed on or about his or her person, such as a handgun, a knife, brass or iron knuckles, or any other deadly weapon, commits the offense of carrying a concealed weapon.
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FYI,
sfg
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"or any other deadly weapon, commits the offense of carrying a concealed weapon."
SFG... anyway to get an exemption for my arms when wearing a jacket ?
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This may help, I am under the impression that the long gun is loaded while cased inside the vehicle. Kind of vague but it would depend on the officer and Prosecutor.
http://nebraskalegislature.gov/laws/statutes.php?statute=28-1202 (http://nebraskalegislature.gov/laws/statutes.php?statute=28-1202)
(1)(a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, any person who carries a weapon or weapons concealed on or about his or her person, such as a handgun, a knife, brass or iron knuckles, or any other deadly weapon, commits the offense of carrying a concealed weapon.
Also depending on location and time of year you might also run afoul of Nebraska Big Game laws that cover certain center fire rifles and handguns that are considered capable of taking certain big game animals without a valid unfilled tag in your possession.
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Will you elaborate on this?
"Also depending on location and time of year you might also run afoul of Nebraska Big Game laws that cover certain center fire rifles and handguns that are considered capable of taking certain big game animals without a valid unfilled tag in your possession."
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"or any other deadly weapon, commits the offense of carrying a concealed weapon."
SFG... anyway to get an exemption for my arms when wearing a jacket ?
It's not your arms, bullit, it's your fists which are the deadly weapons! Have you registered them and would you violate the law wearing gloves? :)
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Let's Look it Up:
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28-1202. Carrying concealed weapon; penalty; affirmative defense.
(1)(a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, any person who carries a weapon or weapons concealed on or about his or her person, such as a handgun, a knife, brass or iron knuckles, or any other deadly weapon, commits the offense of carrying a concealed weapon.
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FYI,
sfg
If I recall correctly, which is getting increasingly more difficult to do, isn't the knife prohibition limited to those with a blade longer than 3 1/2" ? Otherwise, anyone carrying an ordinary pocket knife, like the common swiss army knife, is breaking the law.
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I believe the Nebraska knife limit is only 3.5", as some here told me when I moved in-state and was sorting out my stuff to see what's legal and what isn't. If it's shorter than 3.5" you can conceal it as it isn't considered a weapon.
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Title 272 Chapter 21 002.07 "Handgun" shall mean any firearm with a barrel less than sixteen (16) inches in length or a firearm designed to be held and fired with one hand.
MY OPINION ... the intent of the above statement would DISALLOW the concealed CARRYING of a long gun ..... that being said, it would be allowable to carry an AR/AK variant pistol .... and that's a lot of firepower :)
Easily concealable... ;)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q138/FarmerRick/nfoa/052911135058-Copy.jpg)
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Will you elaborate on this?
"Also depending on location and time of year you might also run afoul of Nebraska Big Game laws that cover certain center fire rifles and handguns that are considered capable of taking certain big game animals without a valid unfilled tag in your possession."
Well let's just say that I wouldn't want to get caught driving around the back roads of Nebraska with a loaded AR in the car during firearm big game season with out a valid tag as that could open up a big can of worms. Think possible poaching/ illegal firearms possession depending on the mood of the GW/LE at the time.
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Well let's just say that I wouldn't want to get caught driving around the back roads of Nebraska with a loaded AR in the car during firearm big game season with out a valid tag as that could open up a big can of worms. Think possible poaching/ illegal firearms possession depending on the mood of the GW/LE at the time.
That is an interesting opinion ..... my personal comments are 1) they would have to know I have it (e.g. RAS or PC to search my vehicle) unless I was in the act of hunting with it and 2) have WHOLE lot evidence to support that I was actually hunting with said firearm. Again, an interesting subtopic for conversation....
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Be glad to discuss it later. Being at work it's kinda hard on my phone to answer, but do believe that last year the US Supreme Court granted game wardens a lot more power on search and seizure than normal LEO have. Case was out of California.
Also do believe that they can confiscate the weapon by using the federal Asset Forfeiture law based on suspicion.
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I have no argument of seizure of a firearm when a crime (or suspected crime) is committed and federal law would not really matter per se. I am curious in your citation of the SCOTUS case or any other citation outside a personal opinion (not trying to be a jerk or argue with that comment either)
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Will you elaborate on this?
"Also depending on location and time of year you might also run afoul of Nebraska Big Game laws that cover certain center fire rifles and handguns that are considered capable of taking certain big game animals without a valid unfilled tag in your possession."
I hope someone will---this is the second mention of it I've seen, but the only G&P rules I can find regarding centerfire rifles during deer season (as an example) have to do with being able to hunt OTHER animals. Nothing about possession.
Can someone cite this rule? (For example, I'd like to know if I'm illegal during deer season when taking my .308 to the range...)
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Im sure this has been discussed in length, but the search function here seems to be less than stellar. If I read correctly on the original 2006 legislation. A handgun that is allowed with a CHP in Nebraska is considered anything with a barrel shorter than 16” and made to be fired with one hand.
"Handgun means any firearm with a barrel less than sixteen inches in length or any firearm designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand."
http://nebraskalegislature.gov/laws/statutes.php?statute=69-2429 (http://nebraskalegislature.gov/laws/statutes.php?statute=69-2429)
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Link to Mar 2012 case
http://www.sportsmenvote.com/news/u-s-supreme-court-move-backs-game-warden-power/ (http://www.sportsmenvote.com/news/u-s-supreme-court-move-backs-game-warden-power/)
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I hope someone will---this is the second mention of it I've seen, but the only G&P rules I can find regarding centerfire rifles during deer season (as an example) have to do with being able to hunt OTHER animals. Nothing about possession.
Can someone cite this rule? (For example, I'd like to know if I'm illegal during deer season when taking my .308 to the range...)
I haven't conducted an exhaustive search of the Game & Parks regs, but I have found location-specific examples of this. E.g., the regs (http://www.sos.ne.gov/rules-and-regs/regsearch/Rules/Game_and_Parks_Commission/Title-163/Chapter-4.pdf) for Gifford Point WMA:
019.08B3 The use or possession of centerfire or rimfire weapons is prohibited.
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You would not want to be caught with you AR15 during hunting season anyway. (If it's a .223/5.56) it would be hard to justify having it for hunting purposes, as at last check, that round is deemed not enough for deer hunting in NE. An issue a couple of us were working on last year.
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Since the lenghts for a concealed knives was mentioned above as 3 1/2 inches, just beware
Hastings NE. Weapons City Code considers a knife worn under the clothes and having a blade of more than 3 inches as carrying a concealed weapon. This is less than the 3 1/2 inches normal in the rest of the state.
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(If it's a .223/5.56) it would be hard to justify having it for hunting purposes,
Legal Weapons:
Rifle - At least .22 caliber and delivers at least 900 ft-lbs of energy at 100 yards (with factory ammunition, or at least, NG&P published literature so said in past years.)
(BIG GAME GUIDE/2014, p.41 NG&P)
SFG... anyway to get an exemption for my arms when wearing a jacket
Yes. Carry your State of Nebraska Concealed Handgun Permit when carrying your arms under your jacket.
Also depending on location and time of year you might also run afoul of Nebraska Big Game laws that cover certain center fire rifles and handguns that are considered capable of taking certain big game animals without a valid unfilled tag in your possession.
FIREARM RESTRICTIONS
During the November firearm deer season, only hunters with valid unfilled deer permits may hunt wildlife other than deer with centerfire rifles or centerfire handguns.....
(BIG GAME GUIDE/2014, p.38 NG&P)
[Note: This provision was enacted to prevent hunters armed w/.308s and .30-06s from being in the woods during deer season, no deer tag, stating that they were "just hunting squirrels".]
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FWIW,
sfg
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It's not your arms, bullit, it's your fists which are the deadly weapons!
Not to mention the manner in which bullit completely shatters their confidence by his cool, steady, direct, unnerving, penetrating stare-down.
After which, nothing remains of the Potential Perpetrator(s) except.....Quivering Jelly.
sfg
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I haven't conducted an exhaustive search of the Game & Parks regs, but I have found location-specific examples of this. E.g., the regs (http://www.sos.ne.gov/rules-and-regs/regsearch/Rules/Game_and_Parks_Commission/Title-163/Chapter-4.pdf) for Gifford Point WMA:
That's useful to know---thanks, Clark.
I wonder.....if having a rifle in your car is sufficient for this to be an issue? (For example, for people with trunk guns---is this enough to get you in trouble?)
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OK.....This thread is about Concealed Handgun Size Limits.
But this question:
isn't the knife prohibition limited to those with a blade longer than 3 1/2" ?
is related to this definition:
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28-1201. Terms, defined.
For purposes of sections 28-1201 to 28-1212.04, unless the context otherwise requires:
(1) Firearm means any weapon which is designed to or may readily be converted to expel any projectile by the action of an explosive or frame or receiver of any such weapon;
(2) Fugitive from justice means any person who has fled or is fleeing from any peace officer to avoid prosecution or incarceration for a felony;
(3) Handgun means any firearm with a barrel less than sixteen inches in length or any firearm designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand;
(4) Juvenile means any person under the age of eighteen years;
(5) Knife means any dagger, dirk, knife, or stiletto with a blade over three and one-half inches in length or any other dangerous instrument capable of inflicting cutting, stabbing, or tearing wounds;
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So anywhere a knife is prohibited, the prohibition apparently refers to a cutting instrument with a blade over three and one-half inches in length.
Unless such device is otherwise construed as "any other dangerous instrument....etc.....).
Now, Forum Lawyers: Is that blade length measured on the straight blade length or along the curved edge of the knife blade?
Fun Thread, this one.
sfg
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A couple of thoughts..... SCOTUS did NOT make a ruling per se in the 2012 case cited. They simply refused to hear... thus allowing it stand in California (correct me if I am wrong Citizen Clark). Secondly, I agree with the CA SC as the warden was OBSERVING the alleged crime. In my mind, that is RAS or PC.
Finally, the reference from SFG would not seem to apply to jthapkido's post regarding driving to the range with your centerfire rifle during the 10 day gun season (in MY OPINION). Again, I would think you would still have to be doing something OBVIOUS to attract the attention of the GW.
Finally, can anyone provide a link the "wormhole" that seemingly contains all of the separate G&P rules and regs (and not the Big Game Guide .... the actual statutes)?
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do believe that last year the US Supreme Court granted game wardens a lot more power on search and seizure than normal LEO have. Case was out of California.
The US Supreme court did not take up the case, but let the California Supreme court decision stand, which I doubt applies to Nebraska
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http://uniweb.legislature.ne.gov/laws/browse-chapters.php?chapter=37 (http://uniweb.legislature.ne.gov/laws/browse-chapters.php?chapter=37)
Quite long winded and just plain long.
game laws are tricky in this state.
And yes a 223 is considered legal in Nebr. Just helped sight in 6 (AR's) for deer season over the last 2 weeks.
Now the exception for the center fire rule are people actively engaged in farming or ranching. Otherwise a valid tag is required.
I do believe that what I said is that I wouldn't be driving the back roads with a loaded AR (Or any other deer capable firearm for that matter). Key word is loaded. Might be construed as a violation of game laws.
If the rifle is unloaded and cased, you have no problem, such as going to the range. And no it wouldn't be considered concealed.
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I still haven't seen any mention of any law, rule, or regulation about not having a rifle in your car during deer season.
Now the exception for the center fire rule are people actively engaged in farming or ranching. Otherwise a valid tag is required.
What rule is this?
I do believe that what I said is that I wouldn't be driving the back roads with a loaded AR (Or any other deer capable firearm for that matter). Key word is loaded. Might be construed as a violation of game laws.
What you said was:
Also depending on location and time of year you might also run afoul of Nebraska Big Game laws that cover certain center fire rifles and handguns that are considered capable of taking certain big game animals without a valid unfilled tag in your possession.
What Nebraska Big Game laws would those be?
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I hope someone will---this is the second mention of it I've seen, but the only G&P rules I can find regarding centerfire rifles during deer season (as an example) have to do with being able to hunt OTHER animals. Nothing about possession.
Can someone cite this rule? (For example, I'd like to know if I'm illegal during deer season when taking my .308 to the range...)
It is also against the law to CCW while archery hunting.
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I still haven't seen any mention of any law, rule, or regulation about not having a rifle in your car during deer season.
What rule is this?
Game and parks regulations pg.11, nebr hunting guide general.
FIREARM RESTRICTIONS
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During the November firearm deer season, it is unlawful to hunt wildlife other than deer with a centerfire rifle or centerfire handgun.
EXCEPTION: This does not apply to a holder of a valid unfilled firearm deer permit while hunting in the unit for which the permit was issued. It also does not apply to a bona fide farmer or rancher who owns, leases, or resides upon such farm or ranch land or a member of the immediate family of such farmer or rancher while hunting on such farm or ranch land.
It is illegal to have or carry a loaded shotgun in or on any vehicle on any highway or roadway. A shotgun is considered loaded if there is a shell or shells in the chamber, receiver or magazine.
You driving back roads with a loaded AR or whatever during deer season without a tag, not farmer, or rancher than you are a poacher.
The rest is in the link from last post.
Enjoy.
What you said was:
What Nebraska Big Game laws would those be?
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Game and parks regulations pg.11, nebr hunting guide general.
FIREARM RESTRICTIONS
During the November firearm deer season, it is unlawful to hunt wildlife other than deer with a centerfire rifle or centerfire handgun.
EXCEPTION: This does not apply to a holder of a valid unfilled firearm deer permit while hunting in the unit for which the permit was issued. It also does not apply to a bona fide farmer or rancher who owns, leases, or resides upon such farm or ranch land or a member of the immediate family of such farmer or rancher while hunting on such farm or ranch land.
{snip}
You driving back roads with a loaded AR or whatever during deer season without a tag, not farmer, or rancher than you are a poacher.
Um, no. It says it is illegal to HUNT without a tag. It says nothing about having a rifle in my car. Having a rifle doesn't make me a poacher.
(Emphasis on "hunting" in the above quote mine.)
If for some reason I am stopped by a LEO of any type while I'm driving, and for some official reason they notice a rifle in my car, unless they can come up with any evidence of hunting, then I'm fine. (Having a rifle isn't evidence of hunting. And lots of people keep trunk guns.)
Anything other than this? Because this isn't a rule, regulation, or law against having a rifle in your car during hunting season.
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Some game wardens think it's illegal to wear fluorescent orange during deer season without a deer permit. :o
I have been hassled more then once for my deer permit just for wearing a lot of orange while fencing corn stalks during deer season. I tell them it's a safety issue and I'm trying not to look like a deer.
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I would like to find the actual codified statutes for the mysterious G&P "laws"....NOT what is written in the Big Game Hunting guide or the "snowmobile law" but what statute(s) one might be prosecuted under....otherwise this may be a good challenge for the NFOA and SAF.
Anyone ?
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I would like to find the actual codified statutes for the mysterious G&P "laws"....NOT what is written in the Big Game Hunting guide or the "snowmobile law" but what statute(s) one might be prosecuted under....otherwise this may be a good challenge for the NFOA and SAF.
Anyone ?
A problem here is that some of the statutes that DR4NRA linked to says that G&P may create rules and regulations. As such, what may be considered "force of law" has to ALSO be checked with the current rules and regulations.
I detest the concept of "regulatory authority" when there is little oversight or control.
http://uniweb.legislature.ne.gov/laws/statutes.php?statute=37-308&print=true (http://uniweb.legislature.ne.gov/laws/statutes.php?statute=37-308&print=true)
http://uniweb.legislature.ne.gov/laws/statutes.php?statute=37-314&print=true (http://uniweb.legislature.ne.gov/laws/statutes.php?statute=37-314&print=true)
At least part of this second law requires a public hearing. (Though nowhere does it say that said public hearing had to have any affect on the rule/regulation being heard.) And at least these laws limit the power of rule and regulation to certain specified areas.
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Penalties for violation are bass-ackwards:
(5) Any person violating the rules and regulations adopted and promulgated or commission orders passed pursuant to this section shall be guilty of a Class III misdemeanor and shall be fined at least one hundred dollars upon conviction.
Geez Looeeze...............
And wherefore is the Upper Limit??
sfg
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The reason I asked originally is that I have an AK pistol that I would like to keep in my trunk or backpack if I chose to. Just wondering if it falls under my CHP. It has a barrel less than 16” and is intended to fired with one hand. I just want to make sure there is not an overall length limit.
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I would like to find the actual codified statutes for the mysterious G&P "laws"....NOT what is written in the Big Game Hunting guide or the "snowmobile law" but what statute(s) one might be prosecuted under....otherwise this may be a good challenge for the NFOA and SAF.
Anyone ?
Most of the statutes pertaining to the Game & Parks Commission are in Chapter 37: http://nebraskalegislature.gov/laws/browse-chapters.php?chapter=37 (http://nebraskalegislature.gov/laws/browse-chapters.php?chapter=37)
You can find all current State of Nebraska regulations — including those promulgated by Game & Parks — here: http://www.sos.ne.gov/rules-and-regs/regsearch/ (http://www.sos.ne.gov/rules-and-regs/regsearch/)
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A problem here is that some of the statutes that DR4NRA linked to says that G&P may create rules and regulations. As such, what may be considered "force of law" has to ALSO be checked with the current rules and regulations.
I detest the concept of "regulatory authority" when there is little oversight or control.
http://uniweb.legislature.ne.gov/laws/statutes.php?statute=37-308&print=true (http://uniweb.legislature.ne.gov/laws/statutes.php?statute=37-308&print=true)
http://uniweb.legislature.ne.gov/laws/statutes.php?statute=37-314&print=true (http://uniweb.legislature.ne.gov/laws/statutes.php?statute=37-314&print=true)
At least part of this second law requires a public hearing. (Though nowhere does it say that said public hearing had to have any affect on the rule/regulation being heard.) [...]
The principal law governing the rulemaking process is the Nebraska Administrative Procedures Act (APA), codified as Neb. Rev. Stat. §84-901 (http://nebraskalegislature.gov/laws/statutes.php?statute=84-901) et seq.
In the governor's office, I used to work on regulations from agencies, boards, commissions, and other constitutional officers. The APA sets out the process for rulemaking and includes public notices, a public hearing, and review by the offices of the Governor and the Attorney General.
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The reason I asked originally is that I have an AK pistol that I would like to keep in my trunk or backpack if I chose to. Just wondering if it falls under my CHP. It has a barrel less than 16” and is intended to fired with one hand. I just want to make sure there is not an overall length limit.
What!? You want to continue on the original thread topic!? /s
I believe you are safe there since it is a designated PISTOL and meets the barrel length requirement. :)
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Since concealed knives has been discussed let me see if I can get a couple of things clarified:
My understanding is that the blade is measured from the tip to the handle, regardless of how long the cutting edge is. That might make a difference because sometimes there is a half inch or so difference. If my method of measurement is wrong hopefully someone will point it out.
Based on the definition given in Nebraska law, it looks to me like a pencil or pen could be considered a concealed weapon. A screwdriver is a common weapon and certainly could be considered one. But does a pencil or pen have to be used as a weapon to be legally considered one? If it does, why does not the same thing apply to a knife with a blade longer than 3 1/12 inches?
If a knife with a blade shorter than 3 1/2" is used as a weapon or to threaten somebody, and was previously carried concealed, does it them become defined as having been a concealed weapon?
If a folding knife with a blade longer than 3 1/2" is carried in a pocket with the clip that is very common these days, does the clip and top of the knife showing make it not a concealed weapon? If a folding knife is carried in a sheath is it considered a weapon if the sheath is visible but the knife itself is not?
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If a knife with a blade shorter than 3 1/2" is used as a weapon or to threaten somebody, and was previously carried concealed, does it them become defined as having been a concealed weapon?
Appears that it could be:
28-1201. Terms, defined.
5) Knife means any dagger, dirk, knife, or stiletto with a blade over three and one-half inches in length or any other dangerous instrument capable of inflicting cutting, stabbing, or tearing wounds;
That "any other dangerous instrument" covers covers just about anything, because once it has been used for inflicting wounds, it becomes--ipso facto--a dangerous instrument.
But wait; there's more:
28-1202. Carrying concealed weapon; penalty; affirmative defense.
(1)(a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, any person who carries a weapon or weapons concealed on or about his or her person, such as a handgun, a knife, brass or iron knuckles, or any other deadly weapon, commits the offense of carrying a concealed weapon.
Appears that there's a lotta "Gotcha" in the concealed weapon statutes.
Straight razors, nucks, bricks, broken beer bottles, numchucks, razor blades, sharpened toothbrush handles, newly pointed #2 pencil.......it seems the list could go on for pages and pages.
sfg