NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
General Categories => Carry Issues => Topic started by: terminalvelocity16 on June 26, 2015, 05:57:40 PM
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Does anyone carry at the Lincoln downtown farmers market? Usually I see them post portable "no guns" signs around. However it's not
really a place of business. It's a public market on a city street. Do they actually have the authority to put up these signs, and if so are they
actually binding being that it is a public place? Thanks in advance.
-Term
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Funny you should mention that location. Last September one of our own ended up starting quite a stir when a anti-2A person saw her doing what she had been doing for years... OC at the OC.
Here is the thread and the results: http://nebraskafirearms.org/forum/index.php/topic,12888.0.html (http://nebraskafirearms.org/forum/index.php/topic,12888.0.html)
As far as if this is enforceable? A lawyer would have to tell you that. ;)
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Yeah, Mali, but in that case it was the Old Cheney market in a parking lot on private property. And the OCFM people said they weren't going to post. Now we are hearing of signs being placed in the middle of the public street? I wonder what busybody thinks they have the authority to do that?
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Yeah, Mali, but in that case it was the Old Cheney market in a parking lot on private property. And the OCFM people said they weren't going to post. Now we are hearing of signs being placed in the middle of the public street? I wonder what busybody thinks they have the authority to do that?
Sorry about that mixup, not being from Lincoln I thought he was referring to the same place. The fact that this is a different place does concern me. Especially since this is, as you said, it is public property not private.
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Beuller?
Beuller?
Beuller?
Doesn't anyone else here think it's asinine to "post" a public street and sidewalks in downtown Lincoln?
Can they do that?
Several years in a row folks in our neighborhood have gotten City of Lincoln's permission to barricade off a street for a July 4th block party. If I did that, could I then turn around and post the street like it's my own private property. ???
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My non-lawyerly opinion .... 1) CONCEALED MEANS CONCEALED (but we beat that horse to death here) and 2) I cannot think it enforceable with maybe the thought that FM "pays rent" for the area .....
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We should gather up a BUNCH of gun folks (men and women folk) and walk thru there handing out the No Guns, No Money cards to each vendor. Just one guy doing it won't have much effect, but a couple groups of 5,6, 10.... doing so, that would get their attention at a lot of potential cash flow missed.
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My laymen's understanding of the Concealed Handgun act, combined with the Attorney Generals opinion that cities and villages can not ban CCW on public streets, parking lots or sidewalks, leads me to believe that it would not be a violation to carry concealed with a valid permit in the Haymarket on public sidewalks in spite of signs to the contrary.
Having not personally viewed the signs, I don't tend to be self limiting where my fundamental civil rights are concerned, so I would keep calm and carry on.
But honestly I don't know why any CHP holders would choose to spend their hard earned money in a business that does not honor our Liberties when their are so many others that do not.
https://ago.nebraska.gov/_resources/dyn/files/625565z1196c59/_fn/09001_1-13-09.pdf
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Straight from the Haymarket Farmers' Market website:
"Haymarket Farmers’ Market has just about everything you need, so please leave these items at home:
-Weapons, personal knives, utility tools.
-Animals, no matter how cute or well behaved, unless they are service animals for disabled persons.
-Posters, placards, stickers, balloons or promotional materials.
-Haymarket Farmers’ Market organizers may refuse entry or expel any person, as needed, to maintain a positive and safe event for everyone."
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Straight from the Haymarket Farmers' Market website:
"Haymarket Farmers’ Market has just about everything you need, so please leave these items at home:
-Weapons, personal knives, utility tools.
-Animals, no matter how cute or well behaved, unless they are service animals for disabled persons.
-Posters, placards, stickers, balloons or promotional materials.
-Haymarket Farmers’ Market organizers may refuse entry or expel any person, as needed, to maintain a positive and safe event for everyone."
To me the FM is saying, "Come spend your money here, but leave you rights and possessions at the door."
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Sounds like we need to start flooding them with letters and emails. Then set something up like bull said and try to make a appearance. Maybe a lincoln breakfast then a walk
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Personal knives and utility tools??? What kind of candy a** is running that?
I wonder if this reflects the values of all the vendors there? E.g. Parthenon restaurant or all the folks selling sweet corn? I imagine not. That's who needs to also be told that we're unhappy with this.
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Ahhhh, attempting to create the perfect liberal utopia. lol
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I carry no weapons only tools to protect myself. Its only has one function its not a utility gun. :blank:
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I made a call to the Attorney Generals office about this issue. They transferred me to the NSP there I spoke with the (Honestly cant remember the office name) "justice" office. I asked them if the Haymarket can restrict weapons during the event.
There response was since the city gives control to the Haymarket they have the right to restrict weapons if they so choose.
So.... ???
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There response was since the city gives control to the Haymarket they have the right to restrict weapons if they so choose.
The City can't transfer a power that it does not have to another political subdivision.
The Haymarket can post private property, but public sidewalks and streets? I say no way
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The City can't transfer a power that it does not have to another political subdivision.
The Haymarket can post private property, but public sidewalks and streets? I say no way
Just passing on what the NSP said. I guess in there eyes they are making them responsible for the property. There party there rules?
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Just passing on what the NSP said. I guess in there eyes they are making them responsible for the property. There party there rules?
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Not sure the NSP person you spoke to has a vested interest in fighting the fight against Lincoln and/or the tie-dyed people who decided to post a city street (and also unilaterally choose to make my Swiss Army knife verboten.) Just saying... That sounds like the answer of someone who was happy to just get you off the phone.
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Not sure the NSP person you spoke to has a vested interest in fighting the fight against Lincoln and/or the tie-dyed people who decided to post a city street (and also unilaterally choose to make my Swiss Army knife verboten.) Just saying... That sounds like the answer of someone who was happy to just get you off the phone.
Not disagreeing with you but the gentlemen actually called me back after discussing this with a another person in his office. He could of blown me off and not called. I will call tomorrow and get the exact deparment that I spoke with.
I am more than willing to make more phone calls if you have someone better to call? I think a better legal understand on what they can and can not do when they are in charge with the property is the best. Might be able to and this by dumpling showing them how they have no right. If they have the legal right we should consider putting pressure on them in other ways. Like emails, letters, and no guns no cash cards.
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I'd wager that most of the regular contributors on this forum know more about Nebraska's concealed carry laws than 90% of the employees at the NE State Patrol.
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tstuart34 .... with all due respect ... and I REALLY mean that ..... why are you making this an issue? I humbly request you let it go. IIRC it was not all that long ago, several students made it point to "draw attention" to themselves whilst carrying long guns on UNL property (if I am bastardizing this story, please, someone correct me). That of course led the powers that be to ban ALL firearms on campus. If it becomes an "issue", someone nefarious will act on it ... and NOT in our favor. IMHO, once again, concealed carry goes beyond just carrying said handgun ... I think it also insinuates closed lips .....
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tstuart34 .... with all due respect ... and I REALLY mean that ..... why are you making this an issue? I humbly request you let it go. IIRC it was not all that long ago, several students made it point to "draw attention" to themselves whilst carrying long guns on UNL property (if I am bastardizing this story, please, someone correct me). That of course led the powers that be to ban ALL firearms on campus. If it becomes an "issue", someone nefarious will act on it ... and NOT in our favor. IMHO, once again, concealed carry goes beyond just carrying said handgun ... I think it also insinuates closed lips .....
I have a lot of respect for you Bullit. Your post though often full of sarcasm are very informative and always mean well.
This is how I feel about our forum.... It is a place for people to ***** a little, ask a question here and there and post links to gun stories. The NFOA Bored does a GREAT job pushing new laws in the legislature and we have a hand full of members that get behind them when they can.
I understand the picking your battles but what battles do we ever fight? How often do we right letters to business saying that we choose not to spend our money with them because they are posted. How do they know they are loosing business if they are never told? I'm not saying we should make it into a full on Texas or Nebraska student open carry event.
I understand your opinion on CC but your average Nebraskan does not have the understanding of the laws as you do and probably not willing to put themselves at risk to be arrested and go through a lengthy legal battle as you might be if for some reason you would be found to have a weapon on you.
I'll find something else to do with my free time. Maybe try and watch a few youtube videos on how to shoot faster in IDPA. :laugh:
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I would recommend skipping NSP and their "opinion" and go straight to a more informed source i.e. the Lancaster County Attorney's office (who by the way would do the prosecuting IF it came about). Joe Kelly is a good man and Pro 2A. My last two cents ... now get back to Youtube ....
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I was pushed to the NSP by the Atorney General office.
From now on I will PM you. ;D
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I understood that part. HOWEVER, the AG would NOT be doing the local prosecuting. It would fall to the Lancaster County Attorney, thus my recommendation to speak to them.
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tstuart34,
Should you pursue this with the County Attorney please keep us informed as I, for one, am curious how this plays out.
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I was pushed to the NSP by the Atorney General office.
From now on I will PM you. ;D
Yeah but is this first and foremost a "state" issue? I think the first question is to Lancaster county and/or the city of Lincoln to find out who gave authority to Cheech and Chong, the farmers market organizers, to post the city street. If I wanted to take my kids to Lazlo's for lunch I'd have to break the law to walk down the sidewalk?
I still wonder if anyone gave them the authority or if they just put up their sign unilaterally with no permission to do so.
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Yeah but is this first and foremost a "state" issue? I think the first question is to Lancaster county and/or the city of Lincoln to find out who gave authority to Cheech and Chong, the farmers market organizers, to post the city street. If I wanted to take my kids to Lazlo's for lunch I'd have to break the law to walk down the sidewalk?
I still wonder if anyone gave them the authority or if they just put up their sign unilaterally with no permission to do so.
I called the AG becuase of Dan's comment.
Call this guy per Bullet....
I would recommend skipping NSP and their "opinion" and go straight to a more informed source i.e. the Lancaster County Attorney's office (who by the way would do the prosecuting IF it came about). Joe Kelly is a good man and Pro 2A. My last two cents ... now get back to Youtube ....
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I think it is interesting that the city "has the authority" to post public property. This subject come up occasionally on the forum in conjunction with city parks or city libraries. If it is any help, Lincoln's city code referenced on the city libraries' "no weapons" posting is 9.36.130:
" Possession of Firearms and Dangerous Weapons in City and/or County Facilities; Prohibited. It shall be unlawful for any person to knowingly possess or cause to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a city and/or county facility."
While the above city code references "facilities", I would bet this is what the city would point to when stating they can ban carry in public spaces. I am curious who and/or what gives the city the authority to do this. In my opinion, publicly owned property should not be able to be posted.
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My last trip to the farmers market this past weekend and I did not see any signs or posters on the street itself pertaining to no firearms. They still had a no pets sign.
However the website still says no firearms permitted. Just an update for everyone.
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This suggestion may need to be addressed in another part of the forum but, perhaps the legislation allowing the establishment of gun free zones could be amended to require the venue to provide adequate (armed?) Security or an insurance rider to cover loss or damages to individuals in the event of an attack while on their premises. If they wish to disarm people then they should be legally and financially responsible should something occur.
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I think it is interesting that the city "has the authority" to post public property.
By law they DO NOT have the authority to public property. Article 1 of the State Constitution affirms the neither the state nor any political subdivision deny or infringe the Right to keep and bear arms. They pass these laws knowing they are unconstitutional because they know that 99.9% of the population can not afford to challenge the law in court.
For political subdivisions to claim the section of the CCW law that allows for the posting of property gives them license to do so is a bogus claim. The section in the ccw law refers to private property. The CCW statute does NOT trump a constitutional command.