NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
Ammunition & Hand Loading => Cartridge and Shotshell reloading => Topic started by: skydve76 on March 07, 2012, 03:12:59 PM
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I currently reload .45 and 9mm. I use Barry's plated bullets from Cabela's. For 9mm I pay about $25 or so for 250, and .45 is about $40 for 250. Is this the best deal out there and the cheapest way to go short of going straight led?
I just reload for plinking practice.
Thanks!
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precisiondelta.com has swaged bullets cheaper than that. Swaged is a kind of jacketed so they can be loaded to whatever speed you want. I used to buy Rainier plated bullets from midwayusa.com. I also think PowderValleyInc.com has Berry's cheap, maybe cheaper than Rainier from midway
Update:
Powder valley:
115gr 9mm: 1000 for $68.35
185gr 45: 1000 for $105.52
Precision Delta
115gr 9mm: 1000 for $82
230gr 45: 1000 for $130
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Berrysbullets Plated Bullets are Good Bullets for Target and Plinking:
[Which--of course--You Already Know.]
What you may not know is that you can buy them directly online from Berrys at slightly less cost and much better selection than Cabelas. Plus you pay no direct out-of-pocket sales taxes. Plus on orders $50 and over, they will deliver them to your door by UPS in about four (4) days. [My latest shipment of .38Spcl 148gr Double-Ended Wad Cutters arrived today.]
Here's the website location:
9mm: http://www.berrysmfg.com/product-i14474-c11-g8-b0-p0-9mm_115gr_RN.aspx (http://www.berrysmfg.com/product-i14474-c11-g8-b0-p0-9mm_115gr_RN.aspx)
45ACP: http://www.berrysmfg.com/products-c17-45_Cal_.452.aspx (http://www.berrysmfg.com/products-c17-45_Cal_.452.aspx)
Shooting the plated bullets keeps the lead junk out of your gun barrel, where it's only HARD to remove. And off the muzzle tip and cylinder, where it's IMPOSSIBLE to remove.
sfg
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I've been shooting cast but I think I'm going to move to Berry's when I order my next bunch. Getting the lead out of my M&P is a real pain.
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Thanks guys, I seen that on the website. The 9mm is cheaper at 1000, but at 250 its the same as cabelas. The .45 is the same either way.
I am going to place an order for 2K rounds! I just picked up 500 at cabelas. They have the ranier bullets as well, slightly more expensive but they look better quality.
I'll probably take them back and just order online. I figured it would take a couple weeks.
The lead only are only slightly cheaper, sounds like its not worth it.
Thanks!
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...The 9mm is cheaper at 1000, but at 250 its the same as cabelas...
Is that still true after tax, and shipping if you don't live in Omaha?
Fly
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Ditto on SFG. My brother and I have went to Berry's plated almost exclusively for target ammo in all our handguns and might start looking at some for rifles. The increase in cost compared to cast is minimal, plus you can run a little hotter load if needed, barrel doesn't lead up, etc. Bro also orderes directly from Berry's matter of fact, the catalog is lying right next to me on the end table. Just don't buy everything up guys, I was just telling him tonight to take inventory since FarmerRick has got everyone in a buying frenzy ;)
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Well I load at 4.something grain with magnum primers, so the 4 lb powder I bought will load around 7000 rounds. So I better buy 4000 bullets to start. I dont have that much brass! Crap!
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skydve76
Well--of course--you can re-use your brass.
Or---you can be a Range Scrounger and swoop in after the Shooters have left. Walk around with your head down. Pick up brass.
Just don't bump into me. Please.
[BTW, It's Immoral to buy New Brass, with all those Un-Adopted Empty Cartridges laying out there. And as for buying Pre-primed brass..........Hand-priming is the funnest part. Turning over the square primer box onto the round primer plate, dropping all the primers on the floor..........On hands and knees, in the dark corners........]
sfg
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skydve76
Well--of course--you can re-use your brass.
Or---you can be a Range Scrounger and swoop in after the Shooters have left. Walk around with your head down. Pick up brass.
Just don't bump into me. Please.
[BTW, It's Immoral to buy New Brass, with all those Un-Adopted Empty Cartridges laying out there. And as for buying Pre-primed brass..........Hand-priming is the funnest part. Turning over the square primer box onto the round primer plate, dropping all the primers on the floor..........On hands and knees, in the dark corners........]
sfg
If'n ya'll find any 9x18 Mak out there- I call dibs! It's mine..
P.S. Kids LOOOVE to pick up brass.
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I don't know where you guys buy bullets but I had 1k cast .358 diameter bullets shipped to me for $70. Cheapest plated I found was from powdervalley and they were $74 before shipping, so probably close to $10 to ship that much lead and costing each bullet 1.4 cents more. I like to get the most savings out of my handgun reloading :D
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bradkoll
You are Right On Target about the savings.
The cost of factory stuff has gotten to the point where it even pays to reload 9mm.
And it Really Pays to reload .357Sig, which is getting up to $35/box of 50.
NEBull
So much of the 9X18 "brass" turns out to be Berdan-primed poly-coat steel casings, which are generally non-reloadable. Hard to find good brass pickin's in that caliber. Some folks shoot .380 (9X17) out of their 9X18 pistols. But then, Some Folks don't wear seatbelts, too.
sfg
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I shoot lead in both my 45 and my 40 and I don’t have problems with barrel leading. Here is why…
Quite a few factors go into shooting lead. Speed of the round, hardness of the lead (measured in Brinell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brinell_scale (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brinell_scale))), lubrication, among others. Supersonic rounds (lead rounds) tend to melt as they pass down the barrel from both friction against the barrel and the charge sending them down-range. Since most 45ACP rounds are not loaded to pass the 1000fps mark (roughly supersonic) shooting lead is rarely a problem for that caliber. OTOH 40S&W starts out at 1000fps and just gets more aggressive. You can load them slower, but it takes some figuring… 9mm also starts out well past the 1000fps mark and is not a good choice to shoot in lead. Don’t get me wrong, it can be done, I would just prefer not to take that chance.
The idea is to look for rounds that have a high Brinell number and appropriate lubrication. Lead never really gets all that high on the Brinell scale, but try to get the highest you can find. Missouri Bullet typically casts theirs at about 18 for pistol rounds and is a good choice, plus every round comes pre-lubed. Many other manufacturer’s don’t cast them that hard, usually around 14 or just a bit lower. Good for a 44-40 or maybe a slower .38 load, but nothing near the speed of sound. 18 is pretty hard. Missouri Bullet also sells this nifty little leading removal kit on their web site. The kit is cheap and if it works as well as advertised it’s a good solution to most shooters lead fouling problems.
I have found that shooting lead is about half as expensive as shooting plated rounds. Great for target loads and general plinking, but not much else. I also have a pretty good stock of SHTF rounds (even if I don’t believe in the scenario) that are jacketed/plated. The weights are the same as the lead rounds on the 45ACP as is the load, so practicing with the lead serves the same purpose. On my 40, well I occasionally have to go through a box of jacketed rounds at full load just to keep reminding myself what real ammo feels like.
Ron
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My current prices reusing my 9mm brass puts a box of 50 9mm rounds at about 5.75 per box. I use a high load of 4.5 grains with my copper plated bullets, and I also have been using magnum primers as I can get them cheaper than the SPP.
Given that S&B ammos is 14.99 per 50 retail, thats about $9 saving per box I reload! I can reload 50 rounds in about 15-20 minutes. They come out very accurate. Out of about 500 rounds, I had 3 duds as the primers would not go off, no idea why they would not go off, the dent in them was strong.
Be interested in hearing your guys numbers on 9mm.
CCI SPM primers
4.5 grain bullseye
berrys 115 g plated bullets
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Reloading .40s&w with online lead ran me $5-$6 per 100 iirc. In fact, all of my pistol ammo runs about that price.
Unfy (TM) Copper Coated .40s&w -- hasn't been a reality yet :( ... will be another attempt this weekend, though!
re: dud rounds
Make sure the primer is getting seated deep enough. On my Hornady LNL AP, I threw a wide flat washer under the primer seating plug (resting on the cast iron bits of the press). This helped a lot with insuring a good seating depth on small primers (haven't needed it on large primers).
Lastly, if problems do persist, clean your brass like you normally would and then run a batch through only the sizing / depriming die. Afterwards, take a look at all of your primer pockets and flash holes. I've had some brass need to be primer pocket cleaned / flash holed / etc after several reloadings.
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then you're half the price of mine? Are they cast or plated? Share your secret
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Cast.
Don't recall if they were missouri bullet company or a no-longer-doing-cast-bullets company from FL.
Powder and primers were bought in bulk.
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Frankly I quit tracking the cost. I just know that I can make whatever cartridges I need and they are tuned to my shooting style and firearms, are more accurate and every bit as dependable as factory ammunition.
Hard to find that combination regardless of the cost, and yet I generally can shoot much more often for the same money
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My cost numbers were from about a year ago. I generally keep a few around just because discussions around reloading always end up mentioning savings or costs etc etc etc. ...... but.... I agree with Dan. I know I can shoot however much I like with ammo tailored to my needs... and I don't have to worry about cost.
I will say that I generally shoot lead or copper plated. Either is fine by me, although I do kinda prefer the plated bullets due to leading issues.
It's also handy to put some full on jacketed bullets through every once in a while just remind yourself of what a full powered self defense load acts like..... much like I occasionally reload some 3" magnum 12ga shells with 15 pellet 00buck for the reminder (note that 00buck pellets are hard to come by and generally not cheap due to being the hornady stuff sigh).
PS - check range rules before brass farming. Some ranges don't want you walking out with buckets of brass that aren't yours. Some places prefer you only walk out with brass that you shot.
Bullet Hole in Omaha is notable (they recycle their brass, so walking out with a lot more than you shot is akin to stealing). I usually keep my recovered brass to +/- 5% of what I shot.
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Brassman (www.brassmanbrass.com (http://www.brassmanbrass.com)) has 1K Armscor 230gn FMJRN .45ACP bullets for $150 which INCLUDES shipping and no tax. 15 cents a round makes for some fairly cheap loading.
Buying Bullseye at 16.99+tax and primers at 28.48+tax at Guns Unlimited with these bullets comes out to just under 19.4 cents per round or $9.70 a box. That's less than half the cost of a box CCI Blazer Brass target ammo (22.99+shipping from Midway).
Load data is 5.2gn Bullseye, CCI 300 Large Pistol Primers and the Armscor 230gn FMJRN bullets.
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Buck thanks. I get powder and primers from GU. That's slightly cheaper than berrys bought at cabelas. my .45 is under 10 per box too. I started using 4.5g of bullseye as I can use a .5cc scoop to measure and load faster.
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Post removed from all the complaints of worried people.
A posted limit load for the 9mm with 115gr bullet and bullseye produces roughly 30500psi. The cartridge is rated to 35000psi while +P is 38000psi and +P+ is 42000psi. I had no signs of over pressure in any of the rounds fired. Yes the OAL is not what's suggested for 115gr bullets, it was longer which does a better job of lowering pressure. These bullets were also plated instead of jacketed, meaning they are the same diameter as jacketed but a lower brinell rating meaning they don't face as much resistance going down the barrel which also helps keep pressure under control.
I am glad you are all concerned with it but I don't want everybody lecturing me, this is the only time I have beefed up a load. And I admit I was lucky this time since I was not as experienced when I made these rounds, but I see no threat to my safety or my firearms safety. So the original post is gone and hopefully this thread can get back to the original topic...
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I strongly suggest nobody shoots the recipe I am going to provide out of any gun they value. 9mm was the first pistol cartridge I started reloading and literally bought a hi-point 9mm carbine just so I had an excuse to reload 9mm. Turns out I had a squib one time with about 4.4 grains of bullseye and SPP, so I cranked that number way up for the rest of my reloads(I was new and afraid of squibs, plus never checked OAL of bullets ???) Now I have several hundred 9mm I am trying to shoot off that contain 5.8gr of Bullseye behind 115gr Rainier HP, don't believe any cases have broke yet, but they sure do fling out of that hi-point (when it works).
Wish I had a chrono, alliant data shows 4.7gr of bullseye propelling a jacketed bullet at 1144fps, should be way above that in my carbine...
You are going to get hurt by irresponsibly firing dangerous handloads, but that is your business.
Posting here makes it mine. I don't want any of our handloaders to get hurt as a result of your mistakes. You need to break those cartridges down and salvage the components. If you need to use a bullet puller, I will lend you my impact puller.
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all posts removed for me on this thread...
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Bullseye is one of the fastest burning powders on the market and has a very sharp pressure spike. It is a poor choice for the small case volume of the 9mm and will be very sensitive to COL errors, especially bullet setback.
Most that use Bullseye in 9mm are using it for light loads no where near max.
AA#5 and HS6 are my 9mm powders for full power loads
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Ya I am trying to get rid of my bullseye now, too dirty for me and has limited uses.
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Brad give me your bullseye :) I love it.
Dan, You are very safe reloader for sure! I use 4.5 grain with magnum primers in my 9mm, do you think I am pushing the limits? For my 1911 I was using 5 g with magnum primers, but have since gone with 4.5 g and standard primers. I dont nitice any difference but I dont shoot it much beyond 25 yards. My wife and I still pretty new to handguns to our ability to use the gun more affects accuracy than the load at this point.
I found with my scale a scoop can range between 4.3 and 4.7 but I know some variance comes from the scale itself because I can turn it off and on and get .2 grain flucations after taring each time. Its a Hornady digital scale. Not impressed with that. Measuring .1 gain differences with my beam scale is impossible for me, my Hearstone home isnt level enough.
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Brad give me your bullseye :) I love it.
Dan, You are very safe reloader for sure! I use 4.5 grain with magnum primers in my 9mm, do you think I am pushing the limits? For my 1911 I was using 5 g with magnum primers, but have since gone with 4.5 g and standard primers. I dont nitice any difference but I dont shoot it much beyond 25 yards. My wife and I still pretty new to handguns to our ability to use the gun more affects accuracy than the load at this point.
I found with my scale a scoop can range between 4.3 and 4.7 but I know some variance comes from the scale itself because I can turn it off and on and get .2 grain flucations after taring each time. Its a Hornady digital scale. Not impressed with that. Measuring .1 gain differences with my beam scale is impossible for me, my Hearstone home isnt level enough.
RCBS Chargemaster 1500 dispenser/scale combo. Best investment I ever made (besides the AR that I usually feed with it)
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Now I have several hundred 9mm I am trying to shoot off that contain 5.8gr of Bullseye behind 115gr Rainier HP, don't believe any cases have broke yet, but they sure do fling out of that hi-point (when it works).
You're 26% outside of my reloading books specs (1.2gr over max).
Break it down and don't use it. You're just asking for a ruined weapon or trip to emergency room.
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Dan, You are very safe reloader for sure! I use 4.5 grain with magnum primers in my 9mm, do you think I am pushing the limits?
No, but you are right at max with Magnum primers. My point is that fast powders like Bullseye can and will go over safe pressures with very little warning at the upper limits, especially in a small case like the 9mm
It ought to be instructive to realize that 4.7gr is max in 9mm, while 4.8gr is max for a bullet twice the weight in 45ACP. It should make one wonder just why the max is so low in 9mm.
A little investigation on the interwebz reveals that a large group of hand loaders have had problems with near max loads of Bullseye in 9mm. Assuming max is 4.7gr, then 5.4 to 5.8 grains is flat out dangerous. All it may take is one bullet to set back in the case to turn a firearm into a grenade.
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bradkoll:
Another thing that concerns me is the use of magnum primers with a fast burning powder like Bullseye. Magnum primers are generally recommended only for slow burning, harder to ignite powders, for example, like 2400, in heavier loads in larger cases. Using magnum primers with a powder like Bullseye can skyrocket pressures to unsafe levels faster than you can say BOOM. :o
Listen to what Dan W and unfy are saying.......DON'T SHOOT 'EM! Break them down, and reuse the components. I don't want to read about how badly you were injured using too-heavy loads of fast burning powder in small cases with magnum primers.
Ghost
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bradkoll:
Another thing that concerns me is the use of magnum primers with a fast burning powder like Bullseye. Magnum primers are generally recommended only for slow burning, harder to ignite powders, for example, like 2400, in heavier loads in larger cases. Using magnum primers with a powder like Bullseye can skyrocket pressures to unsafe levels faster than you can say BOOM. :o
Listen to what Dan W and unfy are saying.......DON'T SHOOT 'EM! Break them down, and reuse the components. I don't want to read about how badly you were injured using too-heavy loads of fast burning powder in small cases with magnum primers.
Ghost
I never said anything about magnum primers...
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(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i295/bradkoll/IMG_0071.jpg)
Turns out the most recent load I made was with 4.8gr of bullseye. I used to keep track of my 9mm loads on this one box and when I ran out of space on there I moved them all into small 50 round cardboard boxes. So whatever thread I had of blowing up had it's chance and in allll those rounds I shot never had a problem. Gosh I have never realized how many 9mm I have shot...
(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i295/bradkoll/IMG_0073.jpg)
You should all be glad to see that I have all the info for my loads organized into a binder and loads posted on everything I make. If anybody wants this template for keeping track of loads let me know and I can email it to you. Took me forever in excel tweaking the spacing to my liking.
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bradkoll: I apologize for mentioning you specifically in my previous post. I intended for my discussion to be more general, and not specifically pointed to you.
I'll try to restate my thoughts a little more clearly. This thread has discussed the use of greater than recommended loads of Bullseye powder, and has also discussed the use of magnum primers with Bullseye powder.
IMO, using greater than recommended loads...even a few tenths of a grain.... of a fast burning powder like Bullseye, can cause a dangerous situation much more quickly than it might with a slower burning powder.
IMO, using magnum primers with a fast burning powder like Bullseye can also cause a dangerous situation, if the powder charge is at or near the maximum recommended.
Again, bradkoll, I apologize for mentioning you specifically.
Ghost
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I plan to move away from magnum primers if they would just say in stock. However lots of people use them and I have about 1K round through 3 guns so I feel pretty good about them. I did fire off a box of federal brand cheap stuff today from walmart and it produces noticibly more recoil. Not sure if there is a relationship between recoil and pressure but it sure did seem a lot stiffer and louder.
I've just always used CCI primers and the small pistol non magnum are hard to find right now. I can get winchester, but the main reason I dont like them is because they arent silver.... They are brass colored.
Hoping this week to get anothe 2K in primers the right size, and 2K in berrys. Wish me luck on that. Wont have the $$ until this week and the supplies are drying up fast.
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I've never had ignition problems with winchester small pistol primers..... but... I'd be very uneasy in moving to a magnum primer in it's place for something like 9mm. Others have mentioned the fast burning powders leading to pressure spikes, and the fact that a magnum primer prolly excasterbates this problem. I'd concur in a bookworm fashion (lacking personal experience).
Rather than moving to a magnum primer, I'd simply attempt another brand of pistol primers, restarting load data back at the starting recommendations and inching up as usual.
Without any kind of pressure measuring tool, I would be way too chicken to attempt a magnum primer.... especially with fast burning powders.
Stay Safe!
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I traded the magnum primers for the small pistols in CCI. I'll feel better about then next 1K rounds.
I've read the metal is thicker is all, and CCI engineers say a 5% decrease in powder will more than compensate . This would make sense with the 4 rounds my gun dented hard and did not set off the primer. a 2nd hit set them off except 1.
Not sure about you guys, but I get a 5% deviation in my powder measurements using a scoop. I really dont think it matters except near or over max loads, where it becomes the needle that breaks the camels back type thing. But of course we want to be safe but just know during a shortage magnum primers are easily had.
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I plan to move away from magnum primers if they would just say in stock. However lots of people use them and I have about 1K round through 3 guns so I feel pretty good about them. I did fire off a box of federal brand cheap stuff today from walmart and it produces noticibly more recoil. Not sure if there is a relationship between recoil and pressure but it sure did seem a lot stiffer and louder.
I've just always used CCI primers and the small pistol non magnum are hard to find right now. I can get winchester, but the main reason I dont like them is because they arent silver.... They are brass colored.
Hoping this week to get anothe 2K in primers the right size, and 2K in berrys. Wish me luck on that. Wont have the $$ until this week and the supplies are drying up fast.
Guns Unlimited had a good stock of all CCI primers when i was there on Thursday.
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bot small pistol, they had 1 box up front hiding, they areclean out. they do have winchester though.