NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
General Categories => Events => Topic started by: shooter on January 27, 2017, 07:34:37 PM
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OK,, I talked awhile with the Lady running the Lincoln gun show,,
The reason you cant carry at ANY gun show is Insurance.. There is only 1 company that supplies insurance for these events,, Its thru the N.R.A. and the policy is covered by Loyds of London,, they are the only one in the United states that sells insurance for gun show,
NOW.. some show ignore the rules and let people carry,, but if they have a accident,, the insurance is void,,
some show operate without any insurance.. again,, if something happens, someone is going to get screwed..
I hope this explains why you cant carry at gun shows,, its not the people running the show!
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Now that has to be the very definition of irony....NRA endorsed insurance that doesn't allow carrying of concealed firearms at a gun show......tables full of guns, ammo, knives, etc.......;(
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Shooter
Thanks for the response. Guess as gun owners we need to start pushing back on the NRA if this is their endorsed insurance policy. Maybe one of the concealed carry liability insurance companies could step up to fill this roll.
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Copy of exclusions from "NRA ENDORSED" insurance:
This quotation is provided with the understanding that all ammunition will remain in sealed containers during all insured gun shows, and that the following actions or activities are prohibited at all insured gun shows unless specifically approved in writing by the Company:
• Sale or service of alcohol
• Presence of loaded firearms
• Gunsmith or reloading work during shows
• Display or storage of black powder
• Display or sales of any illegal firearms or
ammunition
• Display or storage of more than 5 pounds
of Pyrodex
• Concealed weapons on the premises with or without concealed carry permits for anyone other than police, law enforcement or hired security
• Magazines or clips on the premises for anyone other than police law enforcement or hired security
Based on the above wording looks like most gun shows would be out of compliance if I read it correctly.
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do you have a link to where you found that?
and its not the NRA that is making these demands.. its loyds that says what there insurance will cover,, those are there terms for selling the insurance,,
on those magazines or clips.. I wonder if that means loaded mags??
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The problem is with the insurance company, not with the show operators or the NRA. It might be possible to talk Lloyds into insuring shows that permitted the carrying of loaded firearms but the premiums would be unbearable. The NRA has the same problem at its convention. To hold the event they need a big facility and all of them are required by their insurers to prohibit firearms.
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The problem is with the insurance company, not with the show operators or the NRA. It might be possible to talk Lloyds into insuring shows that permitted the carrying of loaded firearms but the premiums would be unbearable. The NRA has the same problem at its convention. To hold the event they need a big facility and all of them are required by their insurers to prohibit firearms.
EXACTLY! you have no idea how many people I argue with about this,
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Here is the link
https://mynrainsurance.com/getmedia/95bcf4ee-e768-4cc1-bab5-5d85334ce6cc/2016-Gun-Show-Application-9-16.pdf
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Copy of exclusions from "NRA ENDORSED" insurance:
This quotation is provided with the understanding that all ammunition will remain in sealed containers during all insured gun shows, and that the following actions or activities are prohibited at all insured gun shows unless specifically approved in writing by the Company:
• Sale or service of alcohol
• Presence of loaded firearms
• Gunsmith or reloading work during shows
• Display or storage of black powder
• Display or sales of any illegal firearms or
ammunition
• Display or storage of more than 5 pounds
of Pyrodex
• Concealed weapons on the premises with or without concealed carry permits for anyone other than police, law enforcement or hired security
• Magazines or clips on the premises for anyone other than police law enforcement or hired security
Based on the above wording looks like most gun shows would be out of compliance if I read it correctly.
here is the part I wondered about,, its only for display of LOADED magazines.
Are loaded firearms, magazines or clips prohibited on the premises for anyone other than police, law enforcement or hired security?
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Ya know, I really couldn't care less why a business might choose to ban legal CCW. I choose to buy from those that honor my fundamental civil right of armed self defense.
The last gun show I attended in Millard allowed CCW when I asked...but truthfully I can't really say any gun show I have attended in the last 10 years had any deals I couldn't easily find at local dealers or on line (including shipping) so I just don't waste my time and money at gun shows any more.
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here is the part I wondered about,, its only for display of LOADED magazines.
Are loaded firearms, magazines or clips prohibited on the premises for anyone other than police, law enforcement or hired security?
Second line says "Presence of loaded firearms" so I would take that to mean no loaded firearms in the event area. ::)
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If Lloyds of London is able to make a profit insuring gun shows you'd think a group as big as the NRA could find another insurance company that could provide insurance without the prohibition on exercising our 2nd Amendment rights. Or maybe the NRA could start such a company, or help start one. I'd buy stock in it. If there is only one insurance company willing to insure these shows, it should have competition.
My guess is, if there is any problem caused by someone carrying concealed and it is allowed, the insurance company will be liable for the cost of it. But if there is any problem caused by citizens having been disarmed, like for example being assaulted on the way in or out, or having their car broke into and their carry gun stolen, the insurance company is not liable for that (I am assuming this to be the case anyway). So as a purely practical matter it makes sense for them to prohibit the carrying of guns, since doing so costs them nothing and might save them something. Some customers deciding not to come to the gun show because of the policy is not a problem for the insurance company.
If this is the reason, the problem could be solved through legislation, allowing anyone who suffers an injury (including theft, etc.) because of having disarmed himself to sue the one responsible for the no guns policy. The counterargument to this of course is that no one has to go in so being disarmed is not really being forced on anyone. But if we can have laws saying things like no one can be denied entry into any public place based on race etc., I'd think we could have a law saying those suffering an injury because of having to give up a Constitutional right to go inside have legitimate grounds for a law suit.
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If Lloyds of London is able to make a profit insuring gun shows you'd think a group as big as the NRA could find another insurance company that could provide insurance without the prohibition on exercising our 2nd Amendment rights. Or maybe the NRA could start such a company, or help start one. I'd buy stock in it. If there is only one insurance company willing to insure these shows, it should have competition.
My guess is, if there is any problem caused by someone carrying concealed and it is allowed, the insurance company will be liable for the cost of it. But if there is any problem caused by citizens having been disarmed, like for example being assaulted on the way in or out, or having their car broke into and their carry gun stolen, the insurance company is not liable for that (I am assuming this to be the case anyway). So as a purely practical matter it makes sense for them to prohibit the carrying of guns, since doing so costs them nothing and might save them something. Some customers deciding not to come to the gun show because of the policy is not a problem for the insurance company.
If this is the reason, the problem could be solved through legislation, allowing anyone who suffers an injury (including theft, etc.) because of having disarmed himself to sue the one responsible for the no guns policy. The counterargument to this of course is that no one has to go in so being disarmed is not really being forced on anyone. But if we can have laws saying things like no one can be denied entry into any public place based on race etc., I'd think we could have a law saying those suffering an injury because of having to give up a Constitutional right to go inside have legitimate grounds for a law suit.
making it so a person could sue for not being able to carry at a gun show, if they are injured would result in only one thing happening,,, they would simply stop selling the insurance,, then no more gun shows,, since they are the only ones who will carry what is imagined as a high risk policy, if you don't want to go to the show, then don't go,, I have been having tables at gun shows over 40 years,, I know for a fact, that many people carry anyway.. have seen cops stop people inside the building and make them unload the weapon.. also was at a Lincoln show where a person was shot by accident ,
The insurance companies are just covering there ass,
its the same with a bank, you are not allowed to carry in a bank,, even tho you might be coming out with a bunch of money,, and its a place that is often robbed, its the same thing, the rules say no carry,
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making it so a person could sue for not being able to carry at a gun show, if they are injured would result in only one thing happening,,, they would simply stop selling the insurance,, then no more gun shows,, since they are the only ones who will carry what is imagined as a high risk policy, if you don't want to go to the show, then don't go,
Why would it have this effect on gun shows and not on all other public places? And if it would have this effect on all public places, would all public places shut down? Or would this (or another) insurance company simply adjust their policy to fit the law?
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I'd think we could have a law saying those suffering an injury because of having to give up a Constitutional right to go inside have legitimate grounds for a law suit.
this line says it all !! can i get a hell ya !!
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The CRC gun club show is held at the Ag Park here in progressive Columbus. They have a "no concealed firearms" policy at Ag Park.
That's the stopper. A good many dealers carry openly though.
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The CRC gun club show is held at the Ag Park here in progressive Columbus. They have a "no concealed firearms" policy at Ag Park.
That's the stopper. A good many dealers carry openly though.
That sounds like a good solution.
I was in Montana visiting a friend and we were about to walk into a bar & grill and I asked him what the laws were regarding carry into the place. He reached back, grabbed the hem of his shirt, shoved it behind his holster, looked at me and said "That about covers it."
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This whole issue has been easy for me to deal with...... I haven't gone to a gun show for years now. Never found a "good deal" at one anyways, and I don't have to worry about not being able to carry at one :-)
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This whole issue has been easy for me to deal with...... I haven't gone to a gun show for years now. Never found a "good deal" at one anyways, and I don't have to worry about not being able to carry at one :-)
My feelings exactly.
It's kind of like the car hobby swap meets, a lot of overpriced stuff I have no interest in. With the internet and communications today, those meets are a dying breed.
Greg58
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This whole issue has been easy for me to deal with...... I haven't gone to a gun show for years now. Never found a "good deal" at one anyways, and I don't have to worry about not being able to carry at one :-)
But where do you pick up your beef jerky and zinc knives then? :)
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But where do you pick up your beef jerky and zinc knives then? :)
And your CCW badge?
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And your CCW badge?
at the zoo ofcourse