NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
Handguns, Rifles & Shotguns => Rifles => Topic started by: RobertH on December 09, 2009, 11:50:40 PM
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i currently have a $120 red-dot reflex sight for my AR and it doesn't hold its zero worth a crap, which is disappointing to say the least. what should i buy for an upgrade? i don't need a scope. im looking for a reflex or red dot sight. trijicon or eo tech or what? i also would like to know the pros/cons of your suggestions as well.
i really just want a good sight that holds its zero!
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I have an EOTech 552 on my AR-15 and I love it to death. There are also a ton of fans of Aimpoints. It depends on what you like. Do you want to have a full circle with the dot in the middle like an EOTech or would you prefer a simple red dot like on an Aimpoint?
The Aimpoints have a longer lasting battery than the EOTech, but I like the window on the EOTech much better. Also, I'm a big fan of 100% co-witness between the optic and the irons, which EOTech's pull off (imo) much better than aimpoints. Aimpoints tend to do better with a lower 1/3 co-witness (sights visible at the bottom 1/3rd of the Aimpoint).
I would highly recommend running backup iron sights for either optic if you think there may ever be a chance you'd have to use your AR as a defensive weapon. Having a battery fail on you at the worst time is not a good thing with no back up irons.
If I ever see ya, I'd let you shoot my AR with the EOTech so you can see if you like it.
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Oh, also wanted to say that while the Trijicon ACOG is a great sight, it does have some magnification on it. If you want to avoid magnification, you probably don't want an ACOG. I believe it's a 3x magnifier.
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I don't think you could go wrong with either one. (eo tech or trijicon) Aimpoint's are popular too. trijicons don't use batteries, so that's a plus.
If your budgets not ready for one of those, I've read promising reports on the vortex strikefire. It's probably not on par with these but seems like alot for the price. ($120-$150) Plus they come with a mount, magnifier, and lifetime warranty.
http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-strikefire-red-dot-scope-for-ar15 (http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-strikefire-red-dot-scope-for-ar15)
Vortex is a US owned company and from what I've heard, exceptional customer service.
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Oh, also, you may want to check out GG&G's package deals:
EOTech: http://www.gggaz.com/index.php?special=78
Aimpoint: http://www.gggaz.com/index.php?special=45
They come with a quick disconnect zero-holding mount as well as lens covers. I got mine there, has treated me really well.
Also, if you don't mind spending a bit more... LaRue Tactical has some deals also. LaRue makes pretty much the best stuff out there. They have the best warranty ever too: "You break it, we replace it." This includes abuse/stupidity breaks. They are an amazing company. http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Categories.bok?category=Optic+and+Mount+Combos
Hope you find this info helpful. :)
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I use a 512 EOTech together with an accucam quick release, backed up by a folding rear BUIS - 100% co-witness
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa61/LJUnaTIC/100_1626.jpg?t=1260503769)
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nice responses, it exactly what im looking for.
ill be shopping around for now and won't buy anything until after the new year. the next sight i get better hold its zero!
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oh, something just came to me.
whats the difference between reflex sight and a holographic sight? which one is better? (aka holds zero, battery life, accuracy, MOA's, etc.)
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For the money you spend, the EOTECH is worth every penny. I have one of the new XPS from EOTECHon my AR. It runs on the CR123 batteries. The reason I opted for this model is that my tactical light is a Surefire 6PL which runs off the same battery in the EOTECH.
I only have to carry one size of battery for both accessories. I tested the EOTECH and am very happy with the Zero. It holds a zero very well. In fact, after shooting several hundred rounds of .223 I dismounted the eotech via my throw lever. I then re-mounted it and the zero was one click off on windage. I believe no other product can gurantee perfect zero after dismounting and then remounting their sight.
One click of windage is acceptable. I run a MaTech BUIS and a YHM flip-up front sight gas block. These iron sights co-witness perfectly with the eotech.
The eotech works as a holograph. This system is similar to an F-14 sighting system. Your adversary does not see the "red dot" as it's a holograph projection on very precise glass.
Aimpoint and Trijicon are very good also but the price is going up on the trijicon. The aimpoint has a red dot. The eotech has a red dot with a surrounding 65MOA circle. Why the circle??? A normal sized man at 100yds is fast acquisition inside the 65MOA wide circle. If your adversary is inside the circle-FIRE!! This sight makes acquisition of your target very fast and reliable!!!
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Aimpoint and Trijicon are very good also but the price is going up on the trijicon. The aimpoint has a red dot. The eotech has a red dot with a surrounding 65MOA circle. Why the circle??? A normal sized man at 100yds is 65MOA wide. If your adversary is inside the circle-FIRE!! This sight makes acquisition of your target very fast and reliable!!!
Hee....hee.... come on MR. G.... everyone know why this is so....... ZOMBIES MAN ZOMBIES...... When the SHTF they'll be so many the selection will be perfect....LOL
Have a great day Brian.....
Dan
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Surely that's a misprint...a normal sized man couldn't be 65 MOA wide at 100 yards. That's over 5 feet. Or did you mean 65 MOA tall? That makes sense.
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Although the EOTech has lesser battery life than the Aimpoints, I like the 1 moa center dot and 65 moa ring much better than the 2 or 4 moa dots on the Aimpoints, and with lithium batteries, run time on the EO it is still pretty good.
Lithium batteries are lighter and less likely to be damaged by recoil or to damage the contacts inside the unit
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Still learning the lingo. MOA? ? ?
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Minute of angle. 1 MOA is about 1 inch @100 yards
The angle of an arc is expressed in number of degrees. There are 360 degrees of arc to a full circle. Each degree consists of 60 minutes of arc. The distance covered by the measure of arc is relative to the circumference (total distance around the circle) it is contained within. Knowing the radius (distance to center of circle) circumference is easily calculated by using the constant pi . The ratio (represented by pi ) of circumference is constant to diameter (radius x 2) regardless of circle size. The precise value of pi is so far unknown to man but is normally resolved to 3.1416 or 3.141 for our purposes.
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I should have written it better above. Yes, MOA is 1" at 100yds. No, a normal sized man would NOT be 5ft 5in wide or tall. A normal sized man will fit inside the A65 circle at 100yds and when your enemy is inside the reticle-Fire!!!
Sorry I didn't write that more clear and to the point!
The eotech is a great optic along with aimpoint and trijicon. I leaned toward the eotech due to this circle and the quick acquisition one gets from this!!!
Thanks! Dan, that's a nice set-up you have there!! When it warms up get a hold of me and we'll gather a group of guys and head to the range for some range time.
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Thanks guys. I learn so much here.
Thanks again
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So little time and so much to share.
I currently have 3 different Optics set up on my AR's
On my 223cal 16" Bushmaster carbine I have a Aimpoint Red dot,
On my 223cal 20 Bushmaster rifle I have two types, one is a 4x12 x40 Loupold Scope on a Larue Tactical removeable scope mount. The other is a Trijicon ACOG, also in a LarueTactical scope mount.
I also have two 22lr cal AR's. On the 16" carbine I have a Bushnell red dot scope. This is a copy of the Aimpoint. THe other 22lr 20" rifle has a Loupold 3x9x40 scope on a Larue Tactical mount. I haven't found a ACOG for it yet.
All of these rifles and carbines are set up with back up iron sights. THe ACOG and the scopes don't cowittness with the BUIS
At one time I had a Bushmaster varmitter with a 6.5x20 x 50 Loupold long range scope also with a larue mount. Sold the rifle but still have the scope
Each one has it's intended purpose. The carbine's are for close to med range stuff and the rifles are for med to long range stuff
A3 flat top upper recievers are the only way to properly fit optics to a AR type of firearm.
What is your intended purpose ??
Some people like to KISS on there AR's I have a couple like that as well
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my use would strictly be just shooting, im not looking to shoot long range, thats why i think ill go with the reflex/red dot sight. my ar has troy folding BUIS's.
what is a "cowitness?" don't think ive heard that one before.
and what is the KISS term? yet another question.......
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Co-witness is basically when your backup sights line up in the same plane as your optic, such as shown on the left, while "lower 1/3rd co-witness" is shown on the right.
KISS= keep it simple, stupid
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/mfingar/LaRue_Tactical/T-1SightPicture.jpg)
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I don't think you could go wrong with either one. (eo tech or trijicon) Aimpoint's are popular too. trijicons don't use batteries, so that's a plus.
If your budgets not ready for one of those, I've read promising reports on the vortex strikefire. It's probably not on par with these but seems like alot for the price. ($120-$150) Plus they come with a mount, magnifier, and lifetime warranty.
http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-strikefire-red-dot-scope-for-ar15 (http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-strikefire-red-dot-scope-for-ar15)
Vortex is a US owned company and from what I've heard, exceptional customer service.
That does look like a good deal, and has good reviews. You can order it from opticsplanet.com for $149.99, use coupon code 'merry5' for an additional 5% off and get free shipping if anyone is interested.Thanks for the post.
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wow, great responses!
thanks for the schooling Rick.
since my last optic was about just over $100 last time, im going to save up and put a few hundred into my next one. not really a trijicon, but most likely an eo tech or aimpoint.
oh, and for the KISS..... thats a big duh! the internet lingo fools me again!
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Sometimes Fluff like to use those abreviated terms!!! KISS-Keep it suprisingly simple
I think what fluff was trying to say there is keep it simple! Don't get an optic that is too complicated to where you can't hit your target due to different aiming dots, knobs to turn, parralax, etc...
An eotech or aimpoint is to the point, user friendly and dependable!!!
Once you decide on your choice, mount that optic and get some pictures posted up! I'm sure everyone would enjoy the pictures!!!!!!!!
Thanks! This a great posting by all involved!!!!!
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I don't think you could go wrong with either one. (eo tech or trijicon) Aimpoint's are popular too. trijicons don't use batteries, so that's a plus.
If your budgets not ready for one of those, I've read promising reports on the vortex strikefire. It's probably not on par with these but seems like alot for the price. ($120-$150) Plus they come with a mount, magnifier, and lifetime warranty.
http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-strikefire-red-dot-scope-for-ar15 (http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-strikefire-red-dot-scope-for-ar15)
Vortex is a US owned company and from what I've heard, exceptional customer service.
That does look like a good deal, and has good reviews. You can order it from opticsplanet.com for $149.99, use coupon code 'merry5' for an additional 5% off and get free shipping if anyone is interested.Thanks for the post.
I took my own advice and picked one up for my dad for Christmas.(the vortex red dot) B&H camera had them for $140 with free shipping and a $25 gift card. As soon as he gets it mounted I'll let you guys know how it holds up.
I just need to figure out what to use the $25 on, batteries for him, or put it towards one for me. ;D