NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
Handguns, Rifles & Shotguns => Rifles => Topic started by: gsd on June 09, 2011, 04:43:52 PM
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I'm a bolt guy, but since everyone seems to have an AR nowadays, i figured i'ld better get me one too.
Realistically is it better to buy pre-built or build your own? I've seen some acceptable prices on complete rifles, but i also know that some people have built them for around 600.
I know about the whole upper/lower, parts kits, etc, but what all do i really need to build a decent rifle?
Thanks guys!
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1st question you need to ask yourself "What am I going to do with an AR15"? Home Defense?, Prarie Pups? 300 yd targets?
Once you have answered that 1st question, then find as many people that you can that have a rifle similar to what you want, then ask questions, read, ask more questions, read some more, ask more questions..............
When they get tired of answering all your questions, maybe they will let you shoot it. ;D
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What kind of AR are you looking to build? You can get anything from a heavy barreled 24" target gun to a super light weight 14.5" with a permanent flash hider to bring it up to 16". If you're building your own you'll need a lower receiver, lower parts kit, stock/buffer/buffer tube, and a complete upper (unless you plan to build your own upper, but that gets more complicated). Everything but the lower can be shipped directly to you.
AIM surplus usually has good deals on lowers and complete uppers. Right now they have a lower for $59:
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1SASL&name=Surplus+Arms+%26+Ammo+LOW15+Stripped+AR+Lower+Receiver&groupid=53 (http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1SASL&name=Surplus+Arms+%26+Ammo+LOW15+Stripped+AR+Lower+Receiver&groupid=53)
They usually have good deals on complete uppers, too. Another place to look is Del-ton. They will sell you a kit with everything except the lower for a very reasonable price.
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I almost forgot, Palmetto State Armory is running some smoking deals on complete uppers these days. They're very good quality, too:
http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/ar-complete-uppers.php (http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/ar-complete-uppers.php)
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Ok, I just saw your other post. If you're looking for an accuracy rig this looks good from PSA:
http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/2215.php (http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/2215.php)
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I am personally looking for an accuracy rig. I like the looks of the PSA upper.
I kind of meant this thread for all the members like myself, AR idiots:) Those of you who have the knowledge of building ARs can share little tips/tricks etc. Because once i actually decide to start building this rifle, i am going to become very annoying:)
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I think you should buy the 24" from PSA because I want one. I could live vicariously through you ;D. That would make a killer prairie dog rig.
If you decide to build you basically have three options, either build a lower and buy a complete upper, build both, or buy both. Obviously buying both is the easiest, it takes about 5 seconds to snap an upper and lower together.
Building a lower is very easy. If you can change the oil in your car you're capable of building a lower. It requires a few basic hand tools. The first one I built took maybe an hour since I was going really slow. My second one took about 30 minutes. The brand of lower really doesn't matter, as pretty much all of them are build by one of just a few manufacturers. Pick the one that's cheapest or has the coolest markings. Arfcom has a really good how-to thread on assembling a lower:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=226782 (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=226782)
Building an upper is a little more involved and requires some specialized tools. At the very least you'll need punches, a hammer, an upper receiver vise block, a bench vise, an armorer's wrench, and a torque wrench. Depending on what handguard you choose you may also need to buy a proprietary wrench from the handguard manufacturer. I'm not totally convinced you can save much money by building an upper. With that said I assembled both of my uppers myself from scratch because I couldn't find the exact configuration I wanted anywhere else. It also allows you the luxury of buying it one piece at a time, so you can spread out the cost.
When building an upper there is some debate about whether you need to worry about headspace. On the AR system headspace is set by the barrel extension, not by the bolt/barrel fit. So, as long as the bolt is in spec and the place you bought your barrel from installed the extension correctly you'll be fine. In my opinion as long as you buy from reputable manufacturers you shouldn't have a problem.
The hardest part (for me) of building an upper is getting the barrel nut torqued down to an appropriate setting (between 30-70 lb-ft) while lining up a hole in the nut so the gas tube can pass through to the receiver. It's very easy to have the armorer's wrench slip off and ruin a barrel nut. Ask me how I know.
I encourage everyone I know who's looking at AR's to build their own lower. It gives you a better understanding of how the gun works and it's really rewarding. Building an upper is probably not for most beginners, but if you're willing to invest in the tools and you're fairly mechanically competent it's not a big deal.
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If you truly want to roll your own you can either get an 80% lower or zero percent lower casting and finish it yourself. At the current price of finished lowers it isn't practical from a dollar standpoint. The benefits are a 'paperless' rifle and the satisfaction that comes from knowing you built it.
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Building a lower is very easy. If you can change the oil in your car you're capable of building a lower. It requires a few basic hand tools. The first one I built took maybe an hour since I was going really slow. My second one took about 30 minutes. The brand of lower really doesn't matter, as pretty much all of them are build by one of just a few manufacturers. Pick the one that's cheapest or has the coolest markings. Arfcom has a really good how-to thread on assembling a lower:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=226782 (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=226782)
Having assembled 2 stripped lowers in the past 6 months, I found this guide very useful as well as this video. Assembling an AR-15 Stripped Lower 1 of 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iA_Vkb2UB1w#)
Be advised it is a 2 part series. Assembling a lower is very simple and easy except for those stupid takedown pin springs/detents. But even those aren't TOO bad. I know nothing about putting together an upper however.
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If you truly want to roll your own you can either get an 80% lower or zero percent lower casting and finish it yourself. At the current price of finished lowers it isn't practical from a dollar standpoint. The benefits are a 'paperless' rifle and the satisfaction that comes from knowing you built it.
I have that option available to me if i so see fit. Only thing i don't like about a paperless rifle is I can never sell it.
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gsd - pretty sure you can sell a homebuilt rifle. You just need to assign and engrave a serial number. You can't, however, make a business of it without obtaining an 07 FFL.
I'm not really sure where the cutoff between "selling unwanted personal property" and "manufacturing firearms" is. If I remember right, the BATFE doesn't really know either.
As always - I am not a lawyer. Don't take this as legal advice, etc, etc...
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All right Bk, after some thought, (and a lecture from my Magpul guy) the 24 inch PSA upper would be a little too ungainly for anything beyond PD-ing. This is the new hotness i am looking at is this...also a PSA.
Only gripe i have is the forward triangle, but that can be dealt with.
http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/2243.php (http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/2243.php)
whaddya think?
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as soon as i can get enough money, im going to get a stripped lower and put MOE furniture (OD Green) with a PSA parts kit and a PSA 1/7 twist, 14" barrel with pinned muzzle break also with OD Green MOE furniture. then i plan on painting it woodland or digicamo. the gun is going to be used as plinking mainly and maybe some hunting.
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GSD, with an M4 barrel profile it will probably be on the light side if you're looking to do any precision work with it. That barrel is going to heat up quickly and loose accuracy. It's also not free floated so that will hurt accuracy. It would be a much better all around gun than the 24" though, and accurate enough for 99% of what you're going to use it for. And those Magpul MOE handguards are great. I have them on my SBR and I love them.