NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
General Categories => Newsworthy => Topic started by: FarmerRick on June 16, 2009, 07:20:27 AM
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http://omaha.com/article/20090615/NEWS01/306159683/1009 (http://omaha.com/article/20090615/NEWS01/306159683/1009)
Published Monday June 15, 2009
Council to consider gun law change
BY ELIZABETH AHLIN
? Metro/Region
A proposed change in Omaha's gun ordinances could help police connect more criminals to their crimes.
Dealers of secondhand guns would be required to collect the fingerprints of people selling guns to them under an ordinance proposed by City Council President Garry Gernandt.
"I think this is a move to keep honest people honest and provide law enforcement with an additional tool in their investigation process," said Gernandt, a former police officer.
Currently, only pawnshops are required to collect fingerprints from gun sellers. Secondhand-gun shops such as Scheels, Carl Jarl Lock, Safe and Gun Co., and Guns Unlimited are not.
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"We just want to be able to track back people who sell guns," said Police Chief Eric Buske.
More at the link
Text of proposed ordinance:
http://co.douglas.ne.us/omaha/cityclerk/images/stories/agenda/ID%2009_06_16/Law/564.pdf (http://co.douglas.ne.us/omaha/cityclerk/images/stories/agenda/ID%2009_06_16/Law/564.pdf)
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Is there any evidence or statistics to prove the current system works with the pawn shops????? I am sure Scheels and GU are inundated with MS 13 members selling their wares during the week because of this "loophole". Gimme' a break !!!!
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Getting a set of fingerprints isn't easy. When I was printed for my UT permit, it wasn't a 10 second process and it's prone to errors, especially if the person taking the prints isn't experienced.
Even the electronic machine the NSP used had issues with my hands.
I predict higher numbers of used guns for sale in Sarpy County.
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Is anyone able to attend the public hearing at 2pm today? If anyone from NFOA attends, you need to ask Councilman Gernandt one question: How many sold stolen guns has the Omaha PD recovered from Omaha FFLs in the last year? Certainly if Gernandt's goal is to "provide law enforcement with an additional tool in their investigation process" he has already done the baseline research and knows how (potentially) helpful his ordinance will be to LEOs in investigations. That is, unless his true goal isn't to catch more bad guys (criminals), but instead to burden good guys (law-abiding citizens) with additional ineffective bureaucratic hoops and to pander to the anti-self defense rights groups.
I'll give you 10 to 1 odds he won't be able to answer that one question.
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Also, the article says, "The Gernandt proposal is the latest in a series of changes to crack down on gun violence in Omaha". Really? Cutting down on gun violence is the goal of this new law? Then this statement is total BS:
If a gun sold to one of the shops was stolen or had been used in a crime, a fingerprint record would allow police to identify the seller, Buske said.
I understand the usefulness of preventing the sale of stolen firearms - this is why FLLs will run the serial numbers prior to purchasing used firearms. So a tool already exists to identify stolen firearms at the time of sale. Police Chief Buske (whose lack of critical analytical thought makes him sound like a politician) needs to explain how exactly the LEOs are going to use this specific new law to connect a used firearm sitting in an FFL's inventory to a crime that was committed. I suppose if the criminal used a semiauto, loaded magazines barehanded, left casings with prints at the crime scene, and immediately sold the firearm to an Omaha FFL (which is questionable logic, because why would a criminal sell a tool he uses in his "profession"?) then after finding the printed casings, the LEOs could go to every FFL in Omaha to demand access to the print records of all used guns in their inventory, and finally fish for a match. That sounds plausible, in a Hollywood movie. Implausibility aside, since the majority of violent criminals are repeat offenders, after the LEOs discover the printed casings and run the prints through their criminal database, they'd likely already have a hit and therefore make Gernandt's proposal another useless, ineffective piece of feel-good legislation.
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I've never seen an FFL run the serial number of a gun that has been sold or traded in to him.
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I've never seen an FFL run the serial number of a gun that has been sold or traded in to him.
Point well taken, Rick. Let me rephrase: FFLs can run serial numbers prior to purchasing used firearms. They can go through the NCIC (http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/fbi/is/ncic.htm). Not to be confused with the NICS, the NCIC contains information about stolen or missing property that is reported to police.
The intent of my post was exposing the ineffective feel-goodness of Gernandt's proposed law by pointing out 1) that printing is unlikely to lead to capturing firearms used in crimes, and 2) that systems and tools are already in place that can be used to prevent the sale of stolen firearms. Creating new laws that require the inconvenience (and cost) of printing all law-abiding citizens selling used firearms to try and catch a few criminals selling stolen used firearms is likely more expensive (for the seller and the buyer) than asking FFLs to perform some due dilligence, using existing tools, prior to purchasing a used firearm. And in this economic downturn, why would any politician want to burden citizens with additional costs? (Wait, nevermind ;))
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Pawn shops are required to get a thumb print of everyone selling anything to them, then the item goes into inventory, where it must remain for two weeks before the pawnbroker can sell it. During this time, the serial numbers are given to the po-po to run checks on stolen property. When a match is found, the pawnbroker has a thumb print of the individual. Some have a picture taken by a digital camera that attaches to the file created when the pawn takes place, some even take a photocopy of the drivers license.
Despite all this, people are dumb enough to still sell stolen property to pawnbrokers. A quote from Forest Gump comes to mind.
Sounds like a major hassle for the gun dealer, just The Peoples Democratic Republic of Omaha's way of trying to force gun shops to close down.
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Email them here.
http://www.co.douglas.ne.us/omaha/citycouncil/contact-us
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I've been in several gunshop that have run my guns through the database, both here and in the Commonwealth of Virginia...
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As a FFL dealer myself we have no magic access to any database of stolen firearms, we would have to pester a law enforcement agency to do that for us. Pawnshops have some different rules and regulation that they must submit to. All this will do is drive the sellers of guns out of city limits. The bullet hole, Cabellas will get more used guns traded in damaging the business of in city dealers.
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How many thugs sell their stoilen gun to pawn shops or FFl dealers? I would think that once the thugs get wind of that law they would just sell it to a thug that runs in their circle.
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Not many, but it does happen. Charles Moses stole 3 guns from my dad's place, and pawned one in Wyoming. He used my SKS to kill the rancher at Paxton, and to shoot the state patrol cars.
He stole 2 ruger 10/22s and an SKS with 30 round mag and folding stock, along with a old VHS video camera with my son's 8th birthday on it.
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Here's a link to the proposed law and some of the 'reasons' behind the proposed change.
http://www.co.douglas.ne.us/omaha/cityclerk/images/stories/agenda/ID%2009_06_09/Law/564.pdf
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Not many, but it does happen. Charles Moses stole 3 guns from my dad's place, and pawned one in Wyoming. He used my SKS to kill the rancher at Paxton, and to shoot the state patrol cars.
He stole 2 ruger 10/22s and an SKS with 30 round mag and folding stock, along with a old VHS video camera with my son's 8th birthday on it.
Wow I will almost bet you did not get that gun back.
Did you get any of them returned?
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Just the first gun he pawned, the blued 1022. The stainless 1022 and sks were not returned, but they would have returned the sks if dad wanted it. He didn't.
Moses had a habit of going to abandoned farm houses and making Meth. My mom left early that morning to come see me, dad got home mid afternoon to fing the house broken into. Just lucky that Mom came to see me that day. She is not into guns, as she watched her brother fall over dead as a kid from a bullet wound delivered by her other brother.
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I lived in North Platte, NE at the time and knew the deputy from Wallace, NE who was wounded by the SKS rifle. The sheriff's dept. was actually trying to jack him up for having a personal AR15 in his vehicle. His small community of Wallace, NE where he lived made quite a stink that the Sheriff's dept. would cause him grief and they would not stand for it.
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What, was the deputy supposed to go after a drug crazed felon with a 30 round SKS with a Glock 22? I know the gun was fully loaded with FMJ ammo. I have sold a few HK416 mags to deputies and patrolmen out west. I recommend having at least one of the best AR15 mags available to anyone in law enforcement and I sell them to them at cost.