NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
General Categories => Newsworthy => Topic started by: Cathy1911 on July 21, 2009, 01:50:49 PM
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Also posted to CCW Nebraska. From KETV (http://www.ketv.com/news/20126578/detail.html>):
The gun bounty program is part of the city?s Crime Stoppers campaign. Officer Jake Bettin said the two programs work much in the same way.
"We?re offering $500 cash for a person that you know has an illegal gun," Bettin said. "You can call anonymously and turn them in and do the right thing for the community. I think that?s a positive thing and I think people will call."
From the CrimeStoppers (http://omahacrimestoppers.org/) website:
(http://omahacrimestoppers.org/Pictures/200907161115561.jpg)
Oh I'm just sure this couldn't be abused . . .
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What I fing entertaining is what makes a gun illegal. The only things I see that may be illegal guns are defaced firearms and short shotguns (without proper license). The rest of these are not illegal guns, the possession of these guns would be illegal. In other words not the item but the act.
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Gee wonder whom gave them this grant?
Illegally Owned would be proper wording.
Remember in Omaha short Rifles also.
But illegal by who's definition is the big problem.
Omaha's rightest gun laws with there registration and finger print are just plain ridiculous.
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I sawed off my 870. It's legal in all 50 states and doesn't require a tax stamp.
And people wonder why they have "Stop Snitching" campaigns. Echoes of "1984" indeed.
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"Crime Stoppers doesn't want your name or number." I'm confused. How exactly is the government's fink supposed to get his $500 bribe?
Cathy, you're being such a cynic. What sort of abuse could possibly happen? You mean like if, say, Omaha judges choose to consider an "anonymous tip" as reasonable articulable suspicion or probable cause for executing a search warrant? Does that mean a neighbor (or acquaintance) with a grudge can call in (while cowardly hiding behind anonymity) a false tip and have your property ransacked by Omaha government employees? I can see it now, "Yes, we understand Mr. So-and-so that the 4th Amendment protects you against unreasonable searches and seizures, but you see, we have this 'credible anonymous tip'..."
Agreed, Rich. Frighteningly similar to 1984 - and Matt Bracken's: Enemies: Foreign and Domestic (http://www.enemiesforeignanddomestic.com/).
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I have a plan. I go buy a whole bunch of cheap guns, something less than $500. Then I file the serial numbers off of them and call the cops anonymously on myself. I'll be rich!
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I have a plan. I go buy a whole bunch of cheap guns, something less than $500. Then I file the serial numbers off of them and call the cops anonymously on myself. I'll be rich!
(http://www.digitalcontentproducer.com/mag/403milHS_Party5.jpg)
Brilliant!
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;D
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At first, I thought this was a joke. I sure hope Casady doesn't find out about it! I'd be interested to hear if anyone actually calls in a tip and what the outcome is from it. I guess, if it is a stolen gun or helps the cops find some scum bag robber, rapist, murder type by tracing it somehow, it wouldn't bother me too much that the guy who had it got caught (unless he was unaware of its history and otherwise innocent). I do see a lot of potential for abuse, not to mention the cost to the city and the money going to someone who is probably just as much a criminal as the guy he turns in.
By the way, in case anyone was wondering, my profile graphic is my son's artistic conception of me. It's not too far off, but I sure look grouchy. I'm not usually, but this came from a cartoon strip he and some friends were doing on line some time ago.
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Some of the comments here are unbelievable. This is a good program that helps solve crimes because it's extremely hard to get people to give tips to the police because they don't want to look like snitches.
Gee wonder whom gave them this grant?
How about clicking on the link to the website and see for youself.
Structure and Funding of Crime Stoppers
Crime Stopper Programs are organized as a not for profit organization (Charity). A civilian community board of directors provides direction as to the financial and promotional activities of the program. The board of directors enhances the community involvement aspect, and its function is vital to the programs success.
The Crime Stoppers program is funded by private donations and fund raising. NO TAX DOLLARS are involved. The reward money paid out by the program is from the fund raising and donations from concerned citizens and businesses.
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Some of the comments here are unbelievable. This is a good program that helps solve crimes because it's extremely hard to get people to give tips to the police because they don't want to look like snitches.
LM4202, I'm not sure I understand how this program will help solve crimes. Please help me understand by giving me a few hypothetical, yet specific, examples of how a "Gun Bounty" program will work to solve crimes. Presently, people can annonymously call into the PD with tips. If a potential snitch sees an illegal act with a firearm (murder, rape, robbery, grand theft auto, or even a gang of minors in posession of handguns) and they won't report it to the PD (annonymously or otherwise) because they're are afraid to be a snitch, then do you really think bribing with money is going to make them choose to do the right thing? I don't see any benefits from this program that could possibly outweigh the costs (not fiscal costs, but potential for government abuse of power costs).
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Let's not get too excited here...
I don't think that anyone is calling CrimeStoppers a "bad" program, it's the content(wording) on the above posted sign that I have a problem with.
"What makes a gun illegal?"
As stated above...it is illegal to deface a firearm, create a short-barreled shotgun or rifle without registration, creating a fully-automatic weapon without registration, etc.
Felon with firearm - illegal possession.
Non registered handgun - illegal possession if the person lives in Omaha city limits only.
Stolen Firearm - once again, illegal possession of stolen property.
Defaced Firearm - if the serial # is defaced, yes, illegal to do or possess.
Sawed off Shotgun - minimum legal length without registering as a short barreled shotgun or AOW = 18 inches.
Minor with firearm - depends on the situation... a minor shooting where legal and with adult supervision is legal.
Domestic violence convictions - illegal possession.
So, out of the above, I would only consider 2 of the examples to be an "illegal gun".
I'm pretty sure that the CrimeStoppers organization as a whole is anti-gun and anti-second amendment, they show their obvious bias by the wording of this poster.
In my opinion, they could be a little more accurate and a little less like most of the gun-control groups out there.
I'm not the only one questioning the motives and practices of Crimestoppers: http://citizencrimewatch.org/blog/category/crimestoppers/ (http://citizencrimewatch.org/blog/category/crimestoppers/)
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As Rick says it's a matter of symantics, but when the sheep hear guns are illegal long enough thats what they think, all guns are illegal and bad. That makes us as gun owners criminals, and shouldn't there be a law.
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zombiehunter:
The reason this thing might work is because the people who "know something" that might be valuable to the police are also a bunch of criminally minded scumbags who would do most anything for $500. If you don't pay them for it, they won't give their info, not so much because they are afraid, but because there's nothing in it for them. By doing it through CrimeStoppers, they can remain anonymous from the police (that's who they are afraid of). If they just called the police to due a good deed, they would probably be asked how they got the info, which would probably result in their own arrest.
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a&h - And what do you suppose a "criminally minded scumbag" would do with $500? You don't suppose he'd use it to somehow further fund his profession of criminal activities (possibly violent ones), do you? That doesn't sound to me like the sort of cause CrimeStoppers would want to be investing their money in. </satire> ;)
I'm not saying I disagree that criminals will fink for the right price, I'm just playing devil's advocate. >:D
My major problem with this whole "gun bounty" program nonsense is exactly what Rick explained. CrimeStoppers is an overtly anti-gun/anti-self defense propaganda group. They would prefer LEOs drawing chalk lines around a dead body over a 100-pound, trained and proficient woman carrying a loaded firearm and ventilating her larger, stronger, possibly armed, would-be rapist/murderer. A bigoted fear or hatred for guns and a call for further gun control laws and restrictions on law-abiding citizens only (because by their definition, criminals break laws - even gun laws) can be construed as nothing other than advocating for the former scenario, the chalk lines.
Want to be a real crime stopper? Make the criminal's job a high-risk profession. Train and arm the would-be victims and you'll see crime stop. Many bad guys are willing to kill for their chosen crime, but very few are willing to die for it.
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I hope you didn't misunderstand me. I am in no way in favor of the gun bounty program. The main reason is just what we both said, the money will mostly go to thieves and drug addicts and people who hang around with them. On the other hand, I am not so sure the aim of CrimeStoppers is what you suggest. You'd have to show me some evidence of that. I think it is a well-meaning, though somewhat misguided attempt to get criminals convicted for the crimes they commit. Nothing wrong with that, is there? These programs are basically run and funded by private citizens and organizations who choose to sponser them. I would imagine that many of them are most interested in stopping the criminals from preying on the public, and that many of them are gun owners who believe very strongly in the right of self-defense.
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No misunderstandings here, a&h. I know we're on the same team. ;D
I think it is a well-meaning, though somewhat misguided attempt to get criminals convicted for the crimes they commit. Nothing wrong with that, is there? These programs are basically run and funded by private citizens and organizations who choose to sponser them.
I've got abslolutely no problem with private citizens or orgs choosing to sponsor programs... until those programs start with the anti-gun rhetoric (usually the precursor to advocating for additional firearm restrictions on the law-abiding citizens) and then they fancy some of their funding from government grants (my tax dollars).
I admit that I'm not that familiar with Crime Stoppers. Is it a local Omaha thing only, or part of a larger national program? Are these the same Crime Stoppers: Hinojosa Secures $5,000 Grant For Bee County Crime Stoppers (http://hinojosa.house.gov/list/press/tx15_hinojosa/beecounty.shtml)?
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Read the article linked to, but still not sure exactly where the $5k is coming from. The CrimeStoppers program began in a county in Arizona (I think) and became popular there before spreading around the country to places such as Lincoln and Omaha. The best I can gather, they are similar to franchises in a chain business. However, I think they obtain their funding and management pretty much on a location by location basis. As far as I know, the gun bounty deal is not a part of all Crimestoppers organizations. Certainly not in Lincoln, but quite possibly in more than just Omaha.
I too would have some reservations (at best) about government funding of the programs. I know they have been successful in solving a number of crimes, and not always because of "scumbags" turning each other in. The public in general has access to the pictures, videos, and discriptions of recent unsolved crimes, and I'm sure lots of upstanding citizens would love to play a hand in catching these people. I myself had an opportunity many years ago to help uncover a rather large scheme for fraudlant sales of habitat stickers for hunting licenses. I supplied my tip (someone I knew offered to sell me one at half price and spilled the beans to some extent on how the scheme was working), but I never heard any more about it. More recently, I saw a photo of someone who was involved in a theft and recognized the young man as someone I had seen several times in the area of theft. Unfortunately, I had no helpful information beyond that. But, if I were to see the guy again, I would certainly tail him and contact the police to help them catch the guy (reward or not).