NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
Ammunition & Hand Loading => General Ammunition Discussion => Topic started by: 1hickey on January 22, 2008, 02:23:46 PM
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Since I am trying out my Walther P22, does anyone that has experience with this sidearm have suggestions for a reliably shooting rimfire cartridge for the P22? My el cheapo stuff is OK for plinking, but what is more reliable for actual use? It seems like there is an impressive array of .22LR rounds out there these days.
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I always see CCI Mini-Mags recommended.
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Can you define "actual use"? I hope you were not considering that P22 for self defense :o.................
I thought plinking, pest control, and practice was pretty much all the actual use a .22 pistol had.......
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Mostly around the farm. I do know that quite a few people carry them. Don't know if I would....
Although, unless someone was revved up on meth, putting a little .22 or two in 'em would probably make them stop their foolishness. I wouldn't want to get shot with a .22! Come to think of it, at pistol range, a .22 would probably do just as good a job under most self-defense circumstances without killing. Not sure if guaranteed head removal from a combat pistol or big revolver would be a prerequisite for me as far as carry.
Now you've got me thinking, Jim!! That's never good. ::)
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oh oh, the dreaded .22lr thread......... ;D
Popcorn is in the microwave!
When 1hickey and I were discussing my options for a carry pistol back in the day, he was pretty outspoken against a 9mm... now he has a .22! :-* LOL
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(http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/images/smilies/popcorn.gif)
What's next? 9mm vs. .45? ;D
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Can I kill a bear with a 10mm?
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Ok, sorry to hijack the thread. Just had to do a little flamin' since it was Hick! ;D
We don't want to scare people off from asking questions that don't realize we're all friends here!
I do agree, I wouldn't want to get shot with a .22lr, but in the same breath I'm not sure I would want to trust my life to one either.
A .22 would be better than nothing, but that is about it.
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Here we go again, reinventing the wheel.......
Col. Jeff Cooper discussed this topic to death (it was a quick death) over ten years ago in his "Jeff Cooper's Comentaries". I do know of ONE person that carries a .22 for personal defense, but she does so because she's in her 60's and arthritis prevents her from shooting anything heavier. Cooper said the only place a .22 has a good chance of stopping an attacker is if you shoot them in the eye sockets, and the lady in question can draw and empty her Ruger .22 into a face sized target at 7 yards in very short order!
Jay, can we put up a link to Cooper's Comentaries? It is excellent reading, and I highly recommend it.
On the subject of .22s for personal defense, I like this Machiavelli quote: "Never do your enemy a minor injury."
Or to expand on Cooper's answer to "Do you have anthing GOOD to say about the .25 Auto?"- Cooper replied "It's a GUN!", I would say TWO good things about a .22 for Self Defense: It's a GUN, AND it's better than a .25 AUTO!
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This is good stuff!! ;D ;D
I like it we can have fun!
Not to get the 9mm vs. .45 thing going, but a .45 is my choice for a sidearm you want to effect any real damage with. Ask anybody in the military who carries the M9. They'll tell you almost universally that it may be a good weapon, but something to take into battle needs more cajones. Heck, it literally took a direct congressional order for the Marines to give up the 1911 and go to the M9.
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Don't worry Jay, I haven't lost my mind....
I still roll my eyes at a 9mm for a defensive weapon. I never even bothered to pursue qualification on one in the Army. Give me a SAW, M2, or the Bradley any day!! :-*
The XD .45ACP will be MY carry weapon. ;D
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A bear? ???
Actually that's a legitimate question in the west. Obviously, anything short of a .50 cal Desert Eagle is only going to piss the bear off more. When I lived in Arizona, having a carry weapon when you were out in the bush was a necessity from critters, not folks. Lots of the old timers carried BIG revolvers, or a .45. My cousin always kept a .22LR loaded with bird shot in his pickup as well for rattlesnakes, if you can believe it. He shot more rattlesnakes than anything else. The harder thing to kill in a tussle than a bear is a javelina. Those things seem to be armor plated sometimes. They actually scare me more than a bear. Pigs are just so unpredictable.
How did this thread get here??
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Jim, Great idea. I think we should absolutely put up a link. I only have a bit here, but I will get one up on the links page tonight when I get a chance.
As for reinventing the wheel, yes I know this has been beaten to death, but what we have to remember is that there are new people, both young and old, that are discovering firearms, and all the questions that go with them, every day and they have not read all the same old threads that the oldtimers have. What's old news to some is a burning question for others. We just have to politely point them in the right direction.
That's where the bear thing came in, it was my attempt at a joke about something that I have seen a million times. ::)
It truly is hard having a board that will be interesting enough for seasoned shooters and at the same time helpful to newbies. I'm happy with our direction so far, just have to keep working on growing it.
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Come on 1hickey, some would say you have lost your mind for rolling your eyes at a 9mm! (Especially from someone who is currently carrying a .22! ;D)
HA!
Man, talk about a thread with no direction..... LOL
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;D
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, yes I know this has been beaten to death, but what we have to remember is that there are new people, both young and old, that are discovering firearms, and all the questions that go with them, every day and they have not read all the same old threads that the oldtimers have. What's old news to some is a burning question for others. We just have to politely point them in the right direction.
It truly is hard having a board that will be interesting enough for seasoned shooters and at the same time helpful to newbies. I'm happy with our direction so far, just have to keep working on growing it.
Precisely why you should link Cooper's Comentaries. I thought of myself as a fairly experienced shooter, and then I learned more in the months that I read those Commentaries than in all the years before...... Not only that, Cooper's razor sharp wit is a joy to read!
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"Information Arsenal" added to the forums. I'll give you the honors of posting the link, JimP! ;D
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I use Remington Golden bullets for Range plinking.
When I'm competing (Bowling Pins, etc...) the only .22 ammo I've found that I can trust is CCI Minimags
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Thanks, looks like the consensus here and other places is the CCIs for use. Gotta make sure I get the critters!!
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Purchased a couple different types of CCI .22LR and they work great in the Walther. No more problems! ;D
Just for reference...the bulk box of .22LR HP (Winchester branded) that I got at Scheels has to have been the worst box of rimfire I have seen ever, hands down. The lead literally wobbled around on the brass like tiny dancers. This was not an anomaly, but representative of the whole box. Some of the rounds even had half the lead cut off the bullet by machinery. I am planning on taking that box back to them. I no longer have the receipt, but they need to know how bad it is.
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I shoot a lot of rimfire....primarily rimfire, actually.
CCI's are almost always a good, consistent round in most .22lr. The only exception being the Stingers which use a longer case and can be a bit inaccurate.
The bulk stuff is pretty much all crap. The Remingtons you see at Wallyworld are perhaps the worst thing in the world and Remington should be ashamed. The only bulk I've ever shot that was worth a dang is the Federal Automatch.
You may also want to try some of the Aguila loads. The Super Extra and Super Maximum are hi-velocity rounds that do pretty danged well and are priced really well.
22lr's pistols and rifles all have their quirks and tend to like different ammo's so there isn't any standard rule. The best thing to do is to buy some 50 round boxes of different brands/loads and go try them. It's cheap to do and it gives you a good excuse to go shooting! ;)
Now, just to stir the waters, here are my thoughts on the .22lr as a self defense load.
You could do worse, such as having no weapon at all. I know it isn't the hardest hitting, but a HV round will go through a rabbit at 25 yards from a pistol. It'll surely do some good damage to an intruder from the typical self defense distance of 12 feet. Use CCI v-shock fragmenting load and you're sure to do some damage. Is it the best for the job? No. But it is better than nothing.
I own a .25 auto that I inherited from a friend when he passed away. And I always thought he liked me. :) I guess not. Anyway, I've owned it for about three years and hadn't ever taken it out to shoot it so I did just that a couple of weeks ago. It's one of the little pocket guns with a 2" barrel. From 15 feet only 13 of 20 rounds got on an 8.5" x 11" paper. I guess you could say that it shoots to 1MOBG (minute of bad guy). FWIW I keep it hidden in the dresser drawer just in case. It's right next to the Taurus Judge and that'd be the first grab, thats for sure!
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I have heard of those little 25's as a "nostril gun", as in if you want it to be effective, you shove it up the nose of your adversary and empty it....... and hope the guy isn't congested.....
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Actually, the .25's are pretty effective. All you gotta do is duct tape it to the end of a baseball bat! :D
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Sorry kids but I'm going to have to disagree. When I was young, back when the Rockies were ant hills, there was a gentleman who claimed he could kill any animal on the planet with a .22 and then proceeded to do just that. Sorry I have forgotten his name, but he did drop an elephant (African) with a .22. It all boils down to two things, range and bullet placement. Personally I do not have much use for any of the high velocity ammo in .22, I prefer subsonic either in Eley target ammo or Aquilla. CCI Green Tag at 1070 fps would probably work well in an auto loader and it is pretty accurate. The problem with high velocity .22 is when the sound barrier catches back up to it at about 90 yards, it causes the bullet to dance a bit. When using sub sonic in my CZ 453 I can cover 3 shots with a dime at 50 yards and a nickle at 100 yards. That being said, I will also offer up that I would not want to be the guy shooting at me from 100yds with his .45 ACP when I have my trusty High Standard HD Military .22 to shoot back with. By the way, again years ago there was a small town meat locker/butcher shop in my home town and guess what they used to dispatch cattle on butchering day. Yep, a little .22 rifle with one shot right between the head lights. The only time it didn't work was on a huge old range bull and they had to find the local Marshall and have him shoot the bull with his .357. Be safe and have fun everyone and remember "Shooting is the most fun you can have standing up with your clothes on"
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I'm gradually wandering through some of the threads that do not have real recent comments, and I stumbled upon this one. I don't think anyone here would disagree that at normal self-defense range, a .45 is more likely to stop an assailant than a .22. However, Rule#.308 brings up a good point about distance (and related accuracy of the two). Also, I might remind everyone that it was a .22 that killed Bobby Kennedy, and I can't even recall how many deaths from either accidental or intentional shootings with .22s I have read about over the years. I once read a true story about a family that purchased a small island off the east coast of Canada. There were a number of bears living on the island, including grizzlies. One confrontation involved the entire family (four individuals), all armed with rifles from .22 through .270, 30.30, and 30.06, against a charging grizzly coming at them from about 40yds down the path they were on. they fired continuously as fast as they could as the bear charged and actually continued on past them for some distance before finally dropping dead. Upon skinning the animal, they found 37 bullet wounds in its body. About a week later, the wife/mother of the family was out getting water from the well when another grizzly popped out of the woods and came at her. She had only a .22 rifle, but she fired one round and the bear collapsed dead in front of her.
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I'm gradually wandering through some of the threads that do not have real recent comments, and I stumbled upon this one. I don't think anyone here would disagree that at normal self-defense range, a .45 is more likely to stop an assailant than a .22. However, Rule#.308 brings up a good point about distance (and related accuracy of the two). Also, I might remind everyone that it was a .22 that killed Bobby Kennedy, and I can't even recall how many deaths from either accidental or intentional shootings with .22s I have read about over the years. I once read a true story about a family that purchased a small island off the east coast of Canada. There were a number of bears living on the island, including grizzlies. One confrontation involved the entire family (four individuals), all armed with rifles from .22 through .270, 30.30, and 30.06, against a charging grizzly coming at them from about 40yds down the path they were on. they fired continuously as fast as they could as the bear charged and actually continued on past them for some distance before finally dropping dead. Upon skinning the animal, they found 37 bullet wounds in its body. About a week later, the wife/mother of the family was out getting water from the well when another grizzly popped out of the woods and came at her. She had only a .22 rifle, but she fired one round and the bear collapsed dead in front of her.
:o
Fine example of "it's better to be lucky, than good".
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I didn't bother to mention, the second bear died of old age! :)