NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
General Categories => Carry Issues => Topic started by: Wilson on November 13, 2013, 07:23:00 AM
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I have been asking about the new outlet mall and they responded below. Their email address is below in case anyone wants to email them your displeasure.
Hi Wilson,
It has been determined that Nebraska Crossing will be a gun free zone and we will have signage that represents this on our property.
Thank you,
Nebraska Crossing Outlets
www.nexoutlets.com (http://www.nexoutlets.com)
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Guess I won't be visiting them.
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Saves me the trouble of driving out there to find out. Thanks.
Wilson, I see a web address but no e-mail. Can't seem to find one on their website either.
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Sorry about the email address not coming through too. Senior moment.
info@nextoutlets.com is the email address. I sure hope they get 6000+ emails ;D
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I just informed my wife and daughters that their weekend plans had just changed. They were very disappointed but understood that we have to make a stand.
Has there been any discussion about picketing such areas like Nebraska Crossings or other large strip mall areas that forbid us from being able to carry out our 2nd Amendment right? I would volunteer time for such a effort.
Cheers,
Patrick
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I just tried to write to that address and it came back failed.
Greg58
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the email address shouldn't have a "t" in it. Correct address is info@nexoutlets.com
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They have a fb page. Post your thoughts there.
https://www.facebook.com/nexoutlets (https://www.facebook.com/nexoutlets)
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We really should be putting pressure on the individual shops in addition to the management.
If anyone can find contact information for these shops, post it and I will update the list. Here are the tenants.
Retail stores
• Adidas
• American Eagle Outfitters
• Ann Taylor
• Banana Republic
• BeautyFirst
• Borsheims Boutique
• Bose
• Brooks Brothers
• Carter's
• Chico's
• The Children's Place
• Claire's
• Coach
• Cole Haan
• Columbia
• Converse
• Corning
• Crabtree & Evelyn
• Dressbarn
• Eddie Bauer
• Famous Footwear
• Forever 21
• Gap
• Gold Toe
• Gymboree
• Haggar
• Hanes
• Helzberg Diamonds
• Hot Topic
• J. Crew
• Johnston & Murphy
• Journeys
• Justice
• Kate Spade
• Kay Jewelers
• Kitchen Collection
• Lane Bryant
• Levi's
• Lids
• Lindt Chocolate
• Loft
• Lucky Brand
• Maurices
• Michael Kors
• Motherhood Maternity
• Nike
• Oakley Vault
• Old Navy
• OshKosh B'gosh
• Polo Ralph Lauren
• Rack Room Shoes
• Rue21
• Samsonite
• Skechers
• Sunglass Hut
• Swarovski Crystals
• Tommy Bahama
• Torrid
• Under Armour
• White House Black Market
• Wilsons Leather
Eateries
• Auntie Anne's
• Big Cheese
• Burger Star
• Cuppycakes Sweet Boutique
• Pieocracy
• Scooter's
• Subway
• Voodoo Taco
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I sent a short, respectful email titled: No guns= no gold.
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I've sent an email as well and posted on their FB page... would be really cool to get several thousand "likes" to our postings.
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Nebraska Crossing Outlet Management:
I am very disappointed to learn of your policy to not allow Citizens to legally carry a concealed handgun in your mall. Due to your policy, I will be contacting ALL of my friends and family to inform them of your decision to strip their ability to legally defend themselves should they visit your mall. Most mass shootings happen in such "no-gun" zones as you are creating. Do you think that your policy of jeopardizing the safety of your customers will increase your business once word of this gets out?
Concealed Carry Permit Holders have not only passed extensive State and Federal Background checks, but have also passed a State-mandated and approved handgun safety and training class.
What do you know of your customers who are not CCW permit holders?
Regretfully,
FarmerRick
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Flood their Facebook page folks!
Flood their inbox at info@nexoutlets.com but be polite!
We hope for thousands to respond! Like, Share, Write something!
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For you Twitheads :
https://twitter.com/nexoutlets
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Thanks for the heads-up. My family and relatives are most certainly not going there now. I've emailed the management a very similar and polite letter too asking them to not step on the values of "the good life" here in Nebraska.
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So sorry about the email address having a "t" in it. I am excited about the united responses from so many on their Facebook page. Rod is being interview by KMTV Chanel 3 for the 10 PM News.
Keep the pressure on folks...this is exciting!
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So sorry about the email address having a "t" in it. I am excited about the united responses from so many on their Facebook page. Rod is being interview by KMTV Chanel 3 for the 10 PM News.
Keep the pressure on folks...this is exciting!
Dang, they sure do like him there, huh?
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Funny. Wasn't a gun free zone when i worked out there helping build that place. i carried almost every day. ;D
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Funny. Wasn't a gun free zone when i worked out there helping build that place. i carried almost every day. ;D
+1
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Dont forget you can also go on the right side of the facebook page and "review" with stars from 1 - 5 and post comments.
Keep the hammer down folks!
66bigblock
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I shop at Amazon. I prefer the UPS driver over driving, parking, waiting in lines, not finding what I want. etc.
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Well... I just received a response from my first email -
Hello,
Our no weapons policy is in alignment with other similar properties in Nebraska and is not intended to infringe on anyone's rights.
Thank you,
Nebraska Crossing Outlets
www.nexoutlets.com (http://www.nexoutlets.com)
Rob -- if you can during your interview tonight be sure to slam these false statements!!
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Nebraska Crossing Outlet Management:
I am very disappointed to learn of your policy to not allow Citizens to legally carry a concealed handgun in your mall. Due to your policy, I will be contacting ALL of my friends and family to inform them of your decision to strip their ability to legally defend themselves should they visit your mall. Most mass shootings happen in such "no-gun" zones as you are creating. Do you think that your policy of jeopardizing the safety of your customers will increase your business once word of this gets out?
Concealed Carry Permit Holders have not only passed extensive State and Federal Background checks, but have also passed a State-mandated and approved handgun safety and training class.
What do you know of your customers who are not CCW permit holders?
Regretfully,
FarmerRick
Their response that I just received a few minutes ago:
Hello,
Our no weapons policy is in alignment with other similar properties in Nebraska and is not intended to infringe on anyone's rights.
Thank you,
Nebraska Crossing Outlets
www.nexoutlets.com (http://www.nexoutlets.com)
Is it just me or does that make absolutely no sense what so ever?
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That seems to be their party line! I have seen it in a number of places!
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I received the same response.
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Their FB page has pretty much exploded. ;)
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Yes, their Facebook page has totally been owned...but we need to keep it up. A one-time storm will die away in their minds once opening-weekend sales numbers roll in.
I got the same canned response and replied with this to encourage them to consider a change:
"Well, it does infringe in its current state unless you change the policy to state that "firearms are prohibited except for legally concealed firearms." This accomplishes two things: 1) it keeps us as responsible, law-abiding citizens legal while on your grounds, and 2) and it would allow you to still maintain force of law against anyone else who may use a gun for nefarious purposes.
I would strongly encourage you to change the policy along those lines to allow all of us legal citizens to stay legal and enjoy everything Nebraska has to offer."
Keep up the communication with them, but keep it positive and helpful, not defiant.
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My Post:
My family and I spent over $2,000 dollars last year at the old stores for our new baby gear, tools, and clothes. However, I can not in good conscious support your mall if you continue to be a Gun Free Zone. We have seen mass shooting after mass shooting occur in Gun Free Zones that are nothing but "Soft Targets" for the mentally deranged. The Aurora theater shooter drove past over half a dozen theaters that allowed legal Concealed Carried Weapons (CCW) to the one that didn't allow legal concealed carried weapons. A mall shooting in Oregon was stopped by a CCW permit holder without anyone being killed. This has happened time and time again.
The Nebraska Furniture Mart recently reversed their policy that used to ban CCW from their stores and to show my appreciation they received a $3,500 furniture purchase that I was going to make at their competitor.
I myself have come to the aid of a police officer when he was alone and engaged in a fight with a suspect after shots were fired. We take not only our own safety extremely important but also the safety of our family and community members.
Those Nebraskans that have gone through the rigorous background checks, have been fingerprinted, and attended training classes that cover safety, the law and case studies have a great level of responsibility and follow the law to the "T". They will now have to check their safety at the door and hope and pray that you will protect them.
Please allow those that are legally permitted, under the laws of the great state of Nebraska, to freely conceal carry at your store.
Respectfully and Hopefully,
A Future Customer
I have been really really looking forward to this, hopefully they reconsider.
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http://www.jrn.com/kmtv/news/Nebraska-Crossing-Weapons-Policy-Upsets-Gun-Owners-231849371.html (http://www.jrn.com/kmtv/news/Nebraska-Crossing-Weapons-Policy-Upsets-Gun-Owners-231849371.html)
I was at Moeller Arms when the interview was taking place. Unfortunately, the reporter as much as admitted that he was anti-concealed carry, which shows with the 30 seconds of footage they ended up using out of the 10+ minutes of the actual interview. He didn't use any of the points that Rod gave him as to why gun free zones are dangerous... to be expected, I suppose.
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Here is my e-mail to them.
Hello, I have learned that your new outlet mall plans to deny my 2nd amendment right to keep and bear arms, by banning concealed carry.
This is bad business on your part, because law abiding shoppers, who happen to have a CHP permit have been thru a background check by the State Patrol, have completed a training course, and have disposable income to spend.
Why would you want to exclude Nebraska gun owners from your pool of potential customers?
Gun owners are well connected and we communicate widely, and feel very strongly about this issue.
Are you prepared to assure the safety of shoppers? Because criminals do not abide by laws, or Mall rules, and would find easy pickins among unarmed shoppers.
My right to carry concealed is much more important to me, than seeing what your outlet mall has to offer.
I and my family will not set foot on your mall until this ban is lifted.
Sincerely, Greg Sxxxx Valley, NE.
Greg58
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It saves me some money not having the family going.
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Wilson. See what you started?
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Happy to be a part! Gotta be doing some good at some level. It is great seeing so many engaged in this action.
Thanks to all involved!
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Their response that I just received a few minutes ago:
Hello,
Our no weapons policy is in alignment with other similar properties in Nebraska and is not intended to infringe on anyone's rights.
Thank you,
Nebraska Crossing Outlets
www.nexoutlets.com (http://www.nexoutlets.com)
Is it just me or does that make absolutely no sense what so ever?
I wonder if they mean the malls in Omaha? If so those are incorrectly posted so legally you are OK to carry there.
BTW I'm pissed off there is no North Face store there. Oh well they will probably be over priced anyway just like they used to be.
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Cabela's is also a gun free zone area correct ???
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Cabela's is also a gun free zone area correct ???
No. You can carry there perfectly legally.
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Under Armour is one tenant that should be contacted directly.
You may use the contact form on http://www.underarmour.com/shop/us/en/customer-service (http://www.underarmour.com/shop/us/en/customer-service)
Or if you use twitter: https://twitter.com/AskTeamUA (https://twitter.com/AskTeamUA)
And on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/underarmour (https://www.facebook.com/underarmour)
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All of the food places should be contacted too. Many of them are local.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Voodoo-Taco/555725161134181 (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Voodoo-Taco/555725161134181)
https://www.facebook.com/burgerstar (https://www.facebook.com/burgerstar)
If you can find contact info for others, please post.
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On the news piece, it sounded like there would not be signs. If that's true, it really isn't an issue.
As for the "not infringing rights" that is correct. Only the government infringes rights. Citizens contract rights away all the time. I don't have to like it though, or patronize them.
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Their response that I just received a few minutes ago:
Hello,
Our no weapons policy is in alignment with other similar properties in Nebraska and is not intended to infringe on anyone's rights.
Thank you,
Nebraska Crossing Outlets
www.nexoutlets.com (http://www.nexoutlets.com)
Is it just me or does that make absolutely no sense what so ever?
Total bullsh_t. Not allowing us our 2nd amendment right is not infringing. Bullsh_t!
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As for the "not infringing rights" that is correct. Only the government infringes rights. Citizens contract rights away all the time. I don't have to like it though, or patronize them.
I really should know better than to argue law with you, but
While it may not be an infringement of our rights per se, In my opinion it is no different than a business choosing to illegally discriminate based on race, color, sex, religion, national origin, age, disability, and genetic information, or to make reprisals for protected activity of a number of fundamental civil rights, and the Supremes have ruled that the 2nd amendment is a fundamental right
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You have read my mind, Dan.
The thought ran thru my mind the other night that we should run a Anti- discrimination campaign.
The Liberty Minded, Gun Toting, God Fearing, American Patriot is being discriminated against.
What "They" don't understand is we are not the Minority they would like to believe we are.
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I received this email today:
From Nebraska Crossing Today:
Hi Wilson,
The ownership is willing to reconsider the policy. We will be having a tenant meeting earlier next week to discuss this and we've also reviewed the NFM policy with them today.
We will be in touch soon.
Thank you,
Nebraska Crossing Outlets
www.nexoutlets.com (http://www.nexoutlets.com)
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From NFOA Facebook page:
Exciting news!!
We recently received and email from Nebraska Crossing Outlets indicating they are reconsidering their position on lawful concealed carry.
This is a direct result of YOU!! Thanks to all your phone calls, emails, and other contacts, the management of this fine establishment is beginning to see the light, but the fight is not over! Let them know you will happily patronize their businesses should they decide to allow lawful concealed carry.
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I received this email today:
From Nebraska Crossing Today:
Hi Wilson,
The ownership is willing to reconsider the policy. We will be having a tenant meeting earlier next week to discuss this and we've also reviewed the NFM policy with them today.
We will be in touch soon.
Thank you,
Nebraska Crossing Outlets
www.nexoutlets.com (http://www.nexoutlets.com)
That's some encouraging new, good job everyone.
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That is great news!
Dan,
The difference, at least the way the law stands, is that people who carry are not a protected class. Generally, protected classes have an "immutable" characteristic. They can't be changed by the person that has them (religion gets weird, but as a person of faith, I can see the argument that it is immutable). A CHP holder can choose whether or not to carry. A white person can't choose to be black and a person born in China can't change the fact that they were not born in Brazil.
I have a right to free speech, but you can ban me from this site for what I say because it is a privately operated forum and I am a guest. Same goes for real property. You have a right to to speech and religion, but that doesn't mean you can just hold a religious service or rally in their parking lot without their permission.
When two sets of rights come into conflict, a property owner on one side and a gun owner on the other, the government (imho) should stay out and let the market do its work. We are Adam Smith's invisible hand and our emails, FB posts, and tweets put the economic pressure on the property owners to rethink their position and hopefully results in them reaching the right decision.
As for what that means for our states carry laws, I think private property owners should be able to ban carrying. I think I should remain free to not patronize them if they do. I also think the law should be changed so that carrying on posted property is NOT a crime. We should have the rule a lot of other states have where the property owner can ask me to leave and, if I don't, have me charged with trespassing.
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I also think the law should be changed so that carrying on posted property is a crime
I think you left out a "not" in there but otherwise a good response. I was not considering the " immutable characteristic " aspect
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Whoops. That's a bit of a typo. :)
And thanks for not banning me!
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Fixed it. Must clicked the wrong button as hafltime was ending.
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Since we are in discussion mode, I believe that even though the 2nd Amendment is a Right, and we are restricted by the States to "Permits", that these permits should be honored across state lines just like drivers licenses and marriage licenses! We have to jump through enough hoops to get them.
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A question could be posed to the management of the complex....
"Would you be willing / interested in having a BOD member from the NFOA speak at the tenants meeting so that factual information could be shared and not hype or misinformed rumor?"
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In my email to them this morning thanking them for setting up a tenant meeting to discuss and asked/suggested that they invite someone to represent our side.
I don't expect a reply, but thought it was worth sending anyway.
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A question could be posed to the management of the complex....
"Would you be willing / interested in having a BOD member from the NFOA speak at the tenants meeting so that factual information could be shared and not hype or misinformed rumor?"
That's a GREAT IDEA - ROD?
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thats a great idea. if we are asked to the table, i would start off asking what they know about CC and then destroy their stupid biased notions with facts and what hoops we have to jump through to get a permit.
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thats a great idea. if we are asked to the table, i would start off asking what they know about CC and then destroy their stupid biased notions with facts and what hoops we have to jump through to get a permit.
Just don't start off by saying "I'm the only one in this room professional enough..."
Seriously though, I would pose two simple questions.
By show of hands, how many people here know of a person with a concealed carry permit committing a crime that they could not have otherwise committed without a permit?
By show of hands, how many people here know of the carnage that has occurred in so called "gun free zones" across the nation in recent years?
The hands raised for the first question will be limited, while the hands raised on the second question should be the entire room.
Fly
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Of course I'm willing to participate if invited.
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Keep us updated! And thanks for saving me a trip on my Christmas shopping rounds...
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i unwilling plunged myself into the belly of the anti-carry beast today. i saw lots of shoppers, but no anti-CC signs. no signs on doors or any thing and trust me i looked while my wife and i walked around.
i did see some security. was never close enough to see if they were carrying anything (taser, gun, mace). but from the ones i saw, i would not trust my life with them.
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Just don't start off by saying "I'm the only one in this room professional enough..."
Come on now - the man said "I'm the only one in this room perfessional enough" -- sheesh. ;D
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i unwilling plunged myself into the belly of the anti-carry beast today. i saw lots of shoppers, but no anti-CC signs. no signs on doors or any thing and trust me i looked while my wife and i walked around.
i did see some security. was never close enough to see if they were carrying anything (taser, gun, mace). but from the ones i saw, i would not trust my life with them.
Interesting, good to know.
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They are not responding to my emails about their decision. If it isn't posted perhaps they had a change of heart. :)
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I very much doubt they would publicize their decision, regardless of what decision was made.
I have heard multiple reports of no signs, precisely zero reports of any signs, so far as I am concerned, they allow lawful concealed carry.
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I very much doubt they would publicize their decision, regardless of what decision was made.
I have heard multiple reports of no signs, precisely zero reports of any signs, so far as I am concerned, they allow lawful concealed carry.
This. They won't have an epiphany moment on 2A rights. They didn't understand it before, and they likely have no better understanding now. All they know is there was a large negative response to their announcement and they decided, in the interest of profits, to not put up the signs.
Their other concern is offending the other segment of society that is anti-gun. So the best course of action is to quietly do nothing.
Works for me.
Fly
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So, now, if there are zero signs we should really just drop it. The last thing we should do is to press them into a corner and have them put signs up out of spite. In my letter to them I said the best thing about reversing their policy is to simply take down the signs, no announcement needed. As a private business with the ability to post we should be happy that we were able to organize a groundswell resulting in no signs.
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. So the best course of action is to quietly do nothing.
They still have a listing on the Unfriendly Business List to deal with if they want the NFOA membership to call off the dogs.
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If there are no signs then there is restriction or reason to be in the Unfriendly List.
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If there are no signs then there is restriction or reason to be in the Unfriendly List.
Perhaps... But, with their known stated attitude, there is also no reason to remove the existing listing
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As excited as I was for the Crossing to be renovated and see a renewal on the property- they just keep giving real hard working Americans more and more reason not to shop there. :
""Some shoppers at Nebraska Crossing were shocked to know that a 1.95% occupation tax was added to their receipt even before the state’s 7 % sales tax, bringing their tax total to nearly 9%.""
http://www.jrn.com/kmtv/news/Nebraska-Crossing-Occupation-Tax-Baffling-Some-Buyers--233644101.html (http://www.jrn.com/kmtv/news/Nebraska-Crossing-Occupation-Tax-Baffling-Some-Buyers--233644101.html)
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Not my call, but I take the lack of signage as a victory. They may be required to have a no weapons clause in their leases by an insurer. In that case, they couldn't say what we want to hear and pushing hard may force them to put signs up.
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There was absolutely no legal reason that Nebraska Crossings had to make a public announcement of their anti gun stance, but since they did I think they need to publicly rescind that stance.
My guess is they figured they had nothing to lose, and everything to gain. I am sure they expected that they would be praised for their position but instead they found out that the law abiding gun owners in Nebraska have a very strong and effective grass roots group that knows how to push back
I see no reason to back off of our principles of not supporting anti gun businesses, especially the ones that make a public announcement like Nebraska Furniture Mart did when the Concealed Handgun Act was first passed. They chose to make a big a thing of their anti CCW stance and even put up signs before the law was in effect.
NFM now understands the error of that kind of thinking, and Nebraska Crossings soon will too
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I very much doubt they would publicize their decision, regardless of what decision was made.
I have heard multiple reports of no signs, precisely zero reports of any signs, so far as I am concerned, they allow lawful concealed carry.
Nailed it, my mindset as well.
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While driving by Nebraska Crossing today, I noticed very ample parking so I drove in, stopped, and walked around. I didn't see any signage which was pleasing to me.
It's a nice place and I look forward to them not ever putting the signs up if they really bought them.
Thanks so much to everyone coming out of the woodwork on this!
Until the signs are posted.....play nice ;D
Wilson
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Way to go folks.
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Didn't they state in the news piece that were not going to be any traditional signs but that it was going to be posted in the rules on the digital kiosks ? Has anyone checked those?
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Didn't they state in the news piece that were not going to be any traditional signs but that it was going to be posted in the rules on the digital kiosks ? Has anyone checked those?
Does that even count, legal-wise?
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Does that even count, legal-wise?
Without a specification for signage, it's a very gray area. Depends on if the business wants to push the issue and the local LEO and/or prosecutor interprets the law.
Sadly, if we can't fix it in the Capital, then we are going to have wait for a test case and ( hopefully) fix it in the courts.
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From what I've heard from people the prices aren't all that good in some stores and in fact the Under Armour stores prices were higher than Cabelas and Scheels a few weeks ago!