NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
General Categories => Carry Issues => Topic started by: melbell on August 11, 2009, 07:26:55 AM
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Let me apologize in advance for this long post.
I am a concealed carry permit holder and there are a few things I want to clarify now that I'm out in the big ol' world with my gun.
Question 1: Clarity on interaction with Public Service Personel.
The regulation on the Nebraska State Patrol website state the following:
"A permit holder carrying a concealed handgun who is officially contacted by any peace officer or emergency services personnel must immediately inform the peace officer or emergency service personnel of the concealed handgun unless physically unable to do so."
Am I correct in assuming that this means if I'm carrying at the time of said interaction (for example if I get pulled over on my way to work, where I do not typically carry) then I am no required by law to inform the officer that I am a permit holder? I know that it's a good idea to do so, but am I required to if I am not carrying my firearm at the time of the interaction?
My second question also stems from the above regulation. How do you define "offically contacted"? Does this mean only if the officer contacts me regarding police business? For example, if I'm shopping in a grocery store that doesn't have a "no gun" sign posted and there's a police officer in the salad dressing aisle with me, do I have to tell him I'm carrying? I would assume not since there's not even any interaction with him/her. But a friend took his family to the movies, and there was a uniformed officer tearing tickets (Why? I'll never know) and he wasn't sure if the brief encounter (handing him the movie ticket, nodding hello, and taking the ticket stub back from him) was grounds for informing the officer that he was carrying. In this encounter he did directly interact with the officer and even speak to him. Is this a time when notification of legal concealed carry is necessary?
My third question is regarding the list of prohibited places for concealed carry from the state regulations. The regulation from the Nebraska State Patrol includes the following:
"School, school grounds, school-owned vehicle, or school sponsored activity or athletic event;".
Does this include Day Care?
Ok, my fourth and final question, is where can I find the Federal Regulations for where you are prohibited by FEDERAL law from carrying? I tried to find it on the ATF website but I had no luck. In the Nebraska regulation it says "Any other place or premises where handguns are prohibited by law or rule or regulation." I took this to mean there might some Federal restrictions as well. Any idea where I can find those online?
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Melbell:
If you are carrying, and the contact is made in an official capacity, you have to notify the official of your status. If an officer or emt just says hello to you in the aisle, you don't have to tell them anything. If you are not carrying at the time, you don't have to tell them you have a permit, regardless.
In my interpretation, a day care is not a school. However, I've seen some of them posted (which also seems to confirm that they are not included in the statutory prohibitions against carrying at a school).
You must have a computer, or you wouldn't be posting here. Google "federal restrictions on firearms" or something to that effect. You'll find all kinds of information. Wikipedia is good, as is the NRA-ILA web site.
There are probably plenty of people on the forum here who could answer specific questions if you post them as you did these.
Good luck :D!
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You must have a computer, or you wouldn't be posting here. Google "federal restrictions on firearms" or something to that effect. You'll find all kinds of information. Wikipedia is good, as is the NRA-ILA web site.
Well, I did do a search, and as you say I did find a TON of resources. But I couldn't find the OFFICIAL regulations/laws/whatever. I don't trust this to an unofficial source. I want it straight from the horse's mouth...so to speak.
Thanks for the answers to the questions, though. Your explanations confirm what I already guessed was true.
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I understand completely what you mean about "the horse's mouth" as I, too, don't like to trust other's interpretations in matters like these. On the other hand, I've often found that the horse's mouth doesn't speak my language (or anyone else's). Federal law is, for the most part, no different from state or local law. That is, it is written by people with an intent, but they fail to convey that intent with enough clarity that anyone, or everyone, can understand just exactly what it means. More often than not, it comes down to the interpretation of law enforcement officers, prosecuting attorneys, judges, and juries, none of whom you can predict with certainty. Sucks, doesn't it?
Chances are good, that if you intend no one any harm, you will not be unfairly prosecuted for a violation of the law. Afterall, that is what the laws are intended to prevent: someone doing harm to someone else intentionally.
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Chances are good, that if you intend no one any harm, you will not be unfairly prosecuted for a violation of the law. Afterall, that is what the laws are intended to prevent: someone doing harm to someone else intentionally.
So what you're saying is that I should be googling for a good lawyer rather than for a helpful government website?! ;)
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Might be more expensive, but probably more useful. What did you do, or are you planning, that you're so worried about? :)
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What did you do, or are you planning, that you're so worried about? :)
I'm a conservative Christian...I think that's enough.
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The horses mouth from http://uscode.house.gov...
Title 18, Chapter 44, Section 930 (http://uscode.house.gov/uscode-cgi/fastweb.exe?getdoc+uscview+t17t20+550+2++()%20%20AND%20((18)%20ADJ%20USC)%3ACITE%20%20AND%20(CHAPTER%20ADJ%20(44))%3AEXPCITE)
Have fun reading it! ;D
Fly
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I'm a conservative Christian...I think that's enough.
OMG...I'm calling the authorities RIGHT NOW! ;)
Fly
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Regarding informing an officer, while you don't have to tell them about your permit if you're not carrying, I would (and have) tell them you have a permit. It will appear on their computer when they run your license, and they might get agitated and/or angry if you don't.
YMMV.
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yeah I have this vision of getting pulled over for speeding or something while I'm not carrying. In this vision I don't mention to the nice officer that I'm a permit holder and he returns to my vehicle with my ticket in one hand and his drawn weapon in the other. lol
I'm sure it wouldn't happen that way...but he may wonder if there's a reason that I didn't tell him I have a permit.
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While I'm sure all LEOs will respond differently, I thought you all might like to know about my first, and only, contact with a sheriff's deputy while I was carrying concealed. Stopped on Highway 6 near Ashland for speeding (construction zone that wasn't being worked on at the time, and I didn't realize I was speeding until I saw the cherry top and glanced at my speedometer), I kept my hands on the steering wheel as he approached and after he asked for my license and registration, I told him I had a CHP and that I was carrying. He looked at my driver's license, never even blinked when I told him about CHP, and never mentioned a thing about it afterward. He left after giving me a warning for ten over, never even asked to see the permit or my handguns, and told me to have a nice day.
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My first was slightly amusing. It was only my second time ever leaving the house with my concealed weapon. I didn't even have a holster yet so for safety I had it in the glove box, unloaded. The plan was to go to the DMV to renew my plates (they were 14 days expired) and then go to the store and get a cheapo holster until my good one came in the mail.
So, OF COURSE, on my way to the DMV I get pulled over. He asked for my stuff and I handed him my insurance and registration and I told him that I actually on my way to renew my plates at that moment. He stood there a second and I said, "oh yeah, you need my license." As I reached for my purse I remembered. Oh crap. So I put my hands on the steering wheel and said, "I almost forgot to tell you that I have a legally concealed firearm in the vehicle." He said, "Ok, I'll just need to see your permit and your registration." As I pulled it out he said, "It's a good thing you remembered or I would be required to confiscate it." I said, "Yeah, it's not even loaded and this is my first time ever being pulled over with it in the car so I almost forgot."
He went back to his car with all my stuff, and wasn't even gone 2 minutes when I saw him coming back in the rear view mirror. He didn't have a ticket or even a warning in his hand, just all of my papers to give back to me. He handed me everything back and said, "If you don't mind me asking, why don't you have it loaded?" He just sounded curious, not like he was asking as an officer but he just wanted to know. I explained to him that I didn't have a holster for it yet and I just wanted to be safe and he said, "Oh...that's smart. Well ma'am you have nice rest of your afternoon." I told him thanks and started rolling up my window.
He stopped and turned back towards my window and said, "Oh wait, ma'am! Don't forget to go get your plates up to date!"
It just cracked me up...he was so interested in why I didn't have my gun loaded he almost forgot why he pulled me over!
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I think most LEOs will not be unduly alarmed when you tell them you have a CHP. (By the way, most people recommend you tell them you have a permit before you tell them you have a gun.) Unless you are suspected of something other than a minor traffic violation, or you are belligerent about being stopped, or act nervous and make sudden movements, they will have no reason to delve any deeper into your status as a CHP holder than what you are obligated to tell them.
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One female cop did almost the same thing as armed an humerous story, just completely ignored me after I told her I was CHP holder and carrying, gave me my ticket like it never happened. Then at the very end of the stop she asked me what I was carrying. Did not want to discuss it really because right after I said Springfield XD Subcompact in 9mm, she said have a nice day, and walked.
Kind of odd..
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This is not a gender slam, but she probably didn't know what a XD was. I have struck several conversations with police officers, and it is surprising how many don't really know what they are carrying. I've been told things like "Beretta 40" as if the "40" was the model number. I think most of us assume that the officers would be "gun people", but I don't think that is necessarily the case. It is just one of the things hanging on their belt that they only have to draw twice a year to qualify with.
Fly
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Apparently, some of them don't know squat about guns, like the ones who accidentally shoot themselves or fellow officers.
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A friend of mine was a police officer and a few of my relatives are NSP. I have talked to all of them and it seems that there are alot of anti gunners in the ranks of law enforcement. And I know a few that are more about the power trip when the badge is on. Kinda scary.
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A friend of mine was a police officer and a few of my relatives are NSP. I have talked to all of them and it seems that there are alot of anti gunners in the ranks of law enforcement. And I know a few that are more about the power trip when the badge is on. Kinda scary.
It is a widespread epidemic. Unfortunately. ??? >:(
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Of all people who might be anti-gun, I can understand that law enforcement might be the most prone to it. After all, they are the ones who have to go after the armed criminals when they've commited a crime. Of course, they should also be the first ones to realize that the criminals aren't going to stop having guns just because we made it illegal.
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LEO's need to understand the difference between people who legally carry and those who don't. Just like those who legally drink and have someone else drive and those who don't. I truly appreciate the work that our LEO's do, they are expose to risk that most of us (me included) could not comprehend. I understand how their views can be tainted, but we need to work on helping them see the bigger picture. Those with closed minds, not much we can do about it but stick to our rights and understand the law. This forum helps me on do just that.
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To be honest, I've only had one interaction with an LEO who I'd say was apparently anti-gun even for law-abiding citizens. The rest were either simply cautious, which is understandable, or had no problem with legal carry. Every group has it's bad apple's, and cops are no exception. Thankfully, they are usually removed from their position if they get too blatant in their unprofessional behaviors.