NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
General Categories => Carry Issues => Topic started by: Burnsy87 on April 10, 2014, 07:42:03 PM
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Just out of curiosity.
I was fortunate enough to be able to be in a private gathering when I was in college to listen to the lead investigators for the Westroads shooting a few years back, and the current person who ran Westroads called us "nutbags" on stage in a room with a bunch of professionals. It was slightly awkward, so I don't know their current status on carrying.
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Malls are gun free zone as far as I know. I know the outlet is is carry friendly though.
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Is your question OC or CC?
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That depends what you think "conspicuous" means.
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Malls are gun free zone as far as I know.
I'm guessing you mean that they are often posted with "No CCW" signs, and/or have a sign posted with a list of rules including the ban of firearms. If so, then I would agree. If you mean there is any state ordinance banning firearms in malls, then no.
That depends what you think "conspicuous" means.
THIS^ The Lincoln Gateway (or whatever they are calling it these days) and SouthPoint don't have the classic "No CCW" signs. They may have some rules posted, but they are not conspicuous to me.
Fly
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Who called who "nutbags" and for what reason?
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The Westroads and Oakview malls are not posted in accordance with Nebraska statutes, at the entrances that I use(once a year, a day or so before Christmas).
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i live really close to oakview and I've never seen any sign posted.
was there ever an update about the outlet mall? They came out and said no guns, but never posted and never respond to any emails inquiring about the topic.
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I went to the Nebraska Outlet Crossing Mall and it appears the individual shops are responsible for posting if they choose to and I only saw one. I have not been through all the stores yet but only a couple are posted that I could see. Most are not.
I think it is great the outpouring of resistance that happened right away last fall...we do have influence as a growing group! :D
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Wilson,
Do you recall which store was posted at NEX?
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I believe there are 2 jewelry store that are posted...neither of which I can afford to visit anyway. Precious metals, to me, come in boxes of 50 or 100, and separate with the squeeze of a trigger!
;D
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Who called who "nutbags" and for what reason?
She called us nutbags. You know, for caring about our safety.
And thanks guys.
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My brother used to be a Security guard at WestRoads. They took down their no handgun signs after the shooting.
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Nutbags?.... Oh well, I can think of a few names that could be worse to be called. Target, victim, and casualty jump out immediately. ;)
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Having worked at one mall in Omaha and visited the others, I am 99% sure they are all "Gun Free Zones." There is no state standard for signage in Nebraska. Crossroads (I know, no one goes there anymore), Westroads, and Oakview have Code of Conduct signs posted at most of the entrances. One of the rules on this list is "No firearms or illegal weapons." While there is no standardization of signage, statutes 69-2441 states
"If a person, persons, entity, or entities in control of the property or an employer in control of the
property prohibits a permit holder from carrying a concealed handgun into or onto the place or premises and such place or premises are open to the public, a permit holder does not violate this section unless the person, persons, entity, or entities in control of the property or employer in control of the property has posted conspicuous notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited in or on the place or premises or has made a request, directly or through an authorized representative or management personnel, that the permit holder remove the concealed handgun from the place or premises. "
An argument could be made that one small line amongst a long list of rules is not "conspicuous" enough but I doubt it would hold water. The websites for each mall also have a list of the Code of Conduct for verification. As for the Nebraska Crossing Outlets, while I can not find much online to corroborate this, I have heard more than once that the entire outlet has been deemed "Gun Free."
Sources
https://statepatrol.nebraska.gov/concelaedcarryfaqs.aspx (https://statepatrol.nebraska.gov/concelaedcarryfaqs.aspx)
(http://nebraskafirearms.org/forum/index.php?topic=10471.0 (http://nebraskafirearms.org/forum/index.php?topic=10471.0))
http://www.oakviewmall.com/content/pdf/code_of_conduct.pdf (http://www.oakviewmall.com/content/pdf/code_of_conduct.pdf)
http://www.westroadsmall.com/content/pdf/code_of_conduct.pdf (http://www.westroadsmall.com/content/pdf/code_of_conduct.pdf)
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Westwood (not Westroads) Shopping Center at the SW corner of 120th & W. Center Streets in Omaha has standard No Handguns signs posted at all the entrances to their various parking lots.
However, they do not post No Handgun signs at the doorways or entrances to any of the individual shops, stores, movie theater, eateries, etc.
Whether this arrangement constitutes legal prohibition or not is unclear. Nevertheless, it is quite clear that they do not want handguns in their shopping center.
sfg
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There is no state standard for signage in Nebraska
Not so fast...
The NSP administrative code for the Concealed Handgun Act clearly states in the Definitions:
002.13 “Posted conspicuous notice” shall mean a clearly visible sign posted at each public entrance to a place or premises open to the public which shall clearly state that concealed handguns are not allowed in the place or on the premises. A recommended format for the sign can be found in Section 018.04 of these regulations.
So it is pretty clear that every public entrance must have a sign that clearly states the prohibition of legally concealed handguns, and last time I checked there is no requirement on my part to research the malls policies before I go shopping.
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If they don't want lawful ccw in the mall they just have to put a sign on all the entrances other wise it's more like no guns at Scheells in Lincoln.
I was carrying in Westroads & Oak View one week ago, shopping with family. What struck me was the memorial at Von Maur.
The people that put up the signs that create the environment for something like this to happen, may not of pulled the trigger
but I find them just as guilty.
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Not so fast...
The NSP administrative code for the Concealed Handgun Act clearly states in the Definitions:
So it is pretty clear that every public entrance must have a sign that clearly states the prohibition of legally concealed handguns, and last time I checked there is no requirement on my part to research the malls policies before I go shopping.
Sorry, I guess I did not explain well enough. What I meant is that there is no standard on what sign has to be used. Yes it has to be conspicuous and posted on the entrance, but it can be sharpie and printer paper if they want, as long as the meaning is clear. I agree that the policy boards are not conspicuous enough. I had to go actively looking for one and read the whole thing to find out.
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Conspicuous means I shouldn't have to go searching for it. So I don't. When you call, ask, check every entrance, or go digging into policy manuals, you are searching, meaning if you are "mucking" yourself, as it is obviously not conspicuous.
It also means you shouldn't call ahead, or ask them what their policy is. Part of carrying concealed is "out of sight, out of mind." When you put the idea in their head, you are often the inspiration for them creating a policy. Conspicuous means conspicuous, and concealed means concealed. Stop searching for signs and obscure policy, and stop announcing to every business owner or manager that your carrying. I have no idea what motivates either action.
If you want to see uniform signage passed, contact the BoD of the NFOA and the NFOA-PAF, and ask what you can do to help 1.) get the right people in the right places, 2.) motivate those people to present and push NFOA backed bills, and 2.) get those other people to support NFOA backed bills.
Uniform signage should be easy compared the all the pipe dream bills, and with any luck, could make a whole slew of non-carry places now open to business for 2A supporters like you.
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wallace11bravo.....we all need to drink the Kool Aid and realize passing bills to ban toy lighters and protect cougars is a greater priority here in Nebraska. Furthermore, letting criminals (violent at that) go free for "good time" and focusing on their feelings is of greater need than pesky common signage. Besides, "Poor" Amanda (I had to work 3 jobs while serving in the Unicameral) McGill felt they would be "ugly".....
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My brother used to be a Security guard at WestRoads. They took down their no handgun signs after the shooting.
I went there to pay my respects after the shooting and noticed that the signs had quietly been removed. Maybe to avoid the embarrassment of being an accessory to such a heinous crime. I don't remember the liberal press mentioning anything about the mall having been sanitized before the shooting by anti-gun bigots, but if we had real news media instead of a big lie machine, the sanitization would have been a prominent part of the reporting.
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wallace11bravo.....we all need to drink the Kool Aid and realize passing bills to ban toy lighters and protect cougars is a greater priority here in Nebraska. Furthermore, letting criminals (violent at that) go free for "good time" and focusing on their feelings is of greater need than pesky common signage. Besides, "Poor" Amanda (I had to work 3 jobs while serving in the Unicameral) McGill felt they would be "ugly".....
I never did understand her. She complained about the pay but kept running for re-election.
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I never did understand her. She complained about the pay but kept running for re-election.
Perhaps she had no skills.
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Conspicuous means I shouldn't have to go searching for it. So I don't. When you call, ask, check every entrance, or go digging into policy manuals, you are searching, meaning if you are "mucking" yourself, as it is obviously not conspicuous.
It also means you shouldn't call ahead, or ask them what their policy is. Part of carrying concealed is "out of sight, out of mind." When you put the idea in their head, you are often the inspiration for them creating a policy. Conspicuous means conspicuous, and concealed means concealed. Stop searching for signs and obscure policy, and stop announcing to every business owner or manager that your carrying. I have no idea what motivates either action.
If you want to see uniform signage passed, contact the BoD of the NFOA and the NFOA-PAF, and ask what you can do to help 1.) get the right people in the right places, 2.) motivate those people to present and push NFOA backed bills, and 2.) get those other people to support NFOA backed bills.
Uniform signage should be easy compared the all the pipe dream bills, and with any luck, could make a whole slew of non-carry places now open to business for 2A supporters like you.
Exactly! I really can not imagine a good outcome for the gun community when Joe Bob gun owner calls up some retail joint to talk to a manager who had probably never encountered a gun, let alone considered the thought that a gun owner could be responsible with that murderous evil inanimate object strapped to his hip and says, "Hey I carry concealed and am planning on stopping by. You cool if I come packing heat?"
Just let them carry on in their ignorant bliss. If they haven't thought about it then there is no reason to bring it up. Then, "Carry On". If you have to search for it, it's not conspicuous.
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