NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
General Categories => Carry Issues => Topic started by: FKSSA on February 04, 2010, 07:38:45 AM
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I just thought I would pass on what I seen and herd at the Cabelas store in Kearney. A gentalman came in with a hand gun under his coat that was not completley covered and the customer service people aksed him to leave it at the counter for intimidation reasons with the other customers. One of the gun counter guys explained that as long as your gun is completely concealed and you have a permit that they would allow anyone to carry in the store but since this persons was visable they took it away. They also told him that if an officer would have seen it beeing carried this way he could loose his permit and firearm. I have no idea as to how much of this was right or wrong as I'm not a permit holder, but if any who dose know would like chime in maybe some other people would not have to deal with this. And who knows mayby the gentalman who this happened to is a member and could clarify this issue on here. I did not get a chace to talk with him before he left.
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1st He would not lose his permit. He did not break any laws. The only trouble he would face would be not leaving Cabela's should they ask him to.
2nd Stupid for giving them his firearm.
3rd Even stupider for allowing it to be "exposed"......
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When you say "taken" do you mean forcibly?
There is no way Cabela's can forcibly disarm anyone. They can "ask" them to disarm or leave the store.
Refusing to leave when asked is armed trespass, and could well cause you to be arrested and lose your permit.
A troubling scenario in any case.
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They just asked him to leave it at customer service while he shopped and it did not appear to be a problem. I was just curious as to how you were suposed to carry and if by the gentelman not having the gun completely concealed if he was in the wrong. there was no problem that I could see by any of the people involved and the gn counter guy was telling him about the gun and permit being taken if seen by an officer, and I was wondering if that was true.
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OK, this policy of Cabela's has been discussed before, and that is their stance. I don't like it , but I am firm believer in the rights of a property owner.
The right to control who enters, and what they can do while they are on your property is not one I will ask somebody else to give up, when I would not give it up myself.
Cabela's does support carrying concealed, and we can work on getting them to allow open carry, but that is their choice, even though I find it hypocritical to make a living off of firearms sales and at the same time restrict open carry of the same.
We can always choose not to buy from Cabela's until they change their mind
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Amen!
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I own a retail store and would like to chime in here.
I'm sure I've had people carry concealed in my store.....most likely at least. It's called "concealed" for a reason so I may never know. I don't have any problem with concealed at all and fully support the right of concealed carry. I better, considering I do so myself.
On the other hand, I would probably ask someone to conceal their weapon if they open carried in my store. The sight of a weapon can intimidate, upset, or worry some of my customers. Regardless as to how irrational their fears may be, as a retailer I need to respect their feelings on the issue if I want to continue earning their dollars.
So, all that said, I don't have a problem with Cabela's (or anyone else) allowing concealed carry but at the same time asking customers not to open carry. I don't think its hipocrytical at all. It's simply being a capitalist that makes allowances for differing views on the matter. Like me they support gun rights but still make allowances for those that may be uncomfortable with loaded and accessable firearms on display.
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I'm not opposed to Cabelas having this policy, but there is a difference between an average store and one that makes a living off of selling guns and related items. Seeing someone armed at Cabelas is different than seeing someone armed at a Hardware store or something like that. IMO
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Because we do have a diverse society re guns (i.e., pro-, neutral, and anti-), I, too, respect the property owner's rights who wants to be respectful of their diverse customers, i.e., not all folks going into Cabelas are pro-gun....maybe some arer just fishing folks, of which I am NOT one because of not being able to sit or stand still for anything longer than shooting some rounds at a Rock Your Glock match 8) . I agree with bullit's three bullets ;) re what transpired at Cabelas. For me, I like the right to open carry, but my choice is to not advertise....I prefer to conceal it.
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Personally, I'm 100% pro gun, but also 100% pro property rights. In my opinion, Cabelas could ban anyone from carrying a gun that's painted any color but chartreuse, and I will absolutely support their right to do so, even if I think it's idiotic. If you don't like their policy, don't shop there, and let management know why.
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We can always choose not to buy from Cabela's until they change their mind
They are kinda overpriced anyway. I would rather support my local FFL anyway.
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I'm not opposed to Cabelas having this policy, but there is a difference between an average store and one that makes a living off of selling guns and related items.
I think you're right.......and you're wrong. : )
If Cabela's sold nothing but guns I would wholeheartedly agree. I live near the "mother" store in Sidney and that's normally the one I go to. Firearms and ammo take up maybe 15% of their floor space. If you go upstairs there and people watch from the balcony its pretty plain to see that a vast majority of their customers are not in the gun department.
I guess in the end I personally feel that banning concealed carry is foolish, but banning open carry is completely understandable no matter what type of business it is, with maybe the exception of a full fledged gun shop.
A boycott in this instance would be overkill, IMHO, and probably not very effective.
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Sounds to me like the store was pretty polite about this. They could have asked him to leave or take it out to his car. The employee didnt know what he was talking about (the gun and permit being taken)But sounded polite. In my opinion the store is just trying to keep the peace by banning open carry.
This is an open carry state. How many of us would be willing to walk around downtown Omaha or Lincoln? What would happen? Most likely one of the sheeple would get scared and call the police. This is the same thing that could possibly happen at Cabelas. Considering they probably make more money from clothing and other items and there are alot of people who get nervous when seeing a gun being openly,the store is acting in their best intrest.
I dont completely agree with their policy but I do understand and respect it.
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That is their policy, like it or not. If you want to shop there, obey their desires. As far as people being offended while shopping at Cabela's, I doubt it, from the time you walk in the door, you know what kind of store it is.
As far as only seeing 15% of the people in the gun department, that is because they have the worst customer service there I have ever seen. They have high prices and uninformed people behind the counter. Still, it is their policy, like it or not, they have the right.
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Seeing someone armed at Cabelas is different than seeing someone armed at a Hardware store or something like that. IMO
How so? Both sell tools. Would it bother you to see me walk into Cabela's wearing a tape measure or a utility knife?
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The wording of this thread is somewhat misleading.
Gun taken at Cabelas in Kearney
The gun was not taken it was voluntarily relinquished and returned upon customer leaving the store.
Like the policy or not it is Private Property and subject to there policies.
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OK, this policy of Cabela's has been discussed before, and that is their stance. I don't like it , but I am firm believer in the rights of a property owner.
The right to control who enters, and what they can do while they are on your property is not one I will ask somebody else to give up, when I would not give it up myself.
Cabela's does support carrying concealed, and we can work on getting them to allow open carry, but that is their choice, even though I find it hypocritical to make a living off of firearms sales and at the same time restrict open carry of the same.
We can always choose not to buy from Cabela's until they change their mind
Now that was well put Dan.
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I have no problem with their "No open carry" policy. I do however have an issue with their employee making an egregious error in their statement.
We don't need more misinformation out there.
Fly
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When I was at the La Vista Cabela's, manning the NFOA table with guys from the ENGC, I took a few minutes to talk to the gun check-in people. I asked specifically what happened to the signs outside that said that checking in guns didn't apply to concealed carry owners? They said their policy of only unloaded guns being handled in the store was being violated by people walking in with loaded rifles saying "It's OK, I have a CCW permit." So they took the signs down and allow concealed carry,but for safety's sake,require all visible guns to be unloaded and safety checked at the door. This seems to me to be a prudent and fair way to balance rights to carry with safe gun handling. What if's are everywhere here. What if he wants to get a trade in appraisal of that gun? What if someone asks to see it over by the gun counter. The "I didn't know it was loaded" defense is a common one. RJ
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I'm going to get flamed here, but while I respect wishes of property owners, I feel once the business is OPEN TO THE PUBLIC,then laws of the state should apply,
if I have a permit, it is a permit, if you don't want my business,become an invitation only store.
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I'd like the opinion of some FFL's here. What do you do when twenty people are in the store handling guns,some that are brought in off the street? I don't think the Bullethole let's you open carry, and gun shows don't. After the ham-handed, dry firing,finger-on-the-trigger waving examples I've seen at gun shows,I wouldn't go if there were a percentage of loaded guns mixed in. :o
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I'm going to get flamed here, but while I respect wishes of property owners, I feel once the business is OPEN TO THE PUBLIC,then laws of the state should apply,
if I have a permit, it is a permit, if you don't want my business,become an invitation only store.
Hmm. So if I own a building that contains a business, and I don't want someone in it, I still have to allow them stay no matter what as long as there isn't a state law against what they are doing?
Think about that for a moment.
Why do you think a private business is suddenly a public building just because members of the public can have permission to enter on certain occasions?
If you invite someone into your house, does that mean you can't ask them to leave unless they break a state law?
I don't necessarily agree with Cabelas regarding this topic. However, I certainly understand why they made the decision as they did. And I _certainly_ agree that as a private business, they can tell whoever they want to stay out if they feel like it.
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So what other rights do we automaticly give up to this business owner when we enter his store, that he begs us to come into? If he says we have no right to spaek our mind, is that OK? Can he just decide we will alll submit to searches, is that OK? What if he decides no blond swedes? He is the property owner and has the control of our rights.
Why do we lose our 2nd amend rights, we are not threatening him or others?
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The property owner doesn't have control of your rights. He has control of his property. He sets the terms by which you may enter his property. If you don't agree, you don't have to enter.
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So what other rights do we automaticly give up to this business owner when we enter his store, that he begs us to come into? If he says we have no right to spaek our mind, is that OK? Can he just decide we will alll submit to searches, is that OK? What if he decides no blond swedes? He is the property owner and has the control of our rights.
Why do we lose our 2nd amend rights, we are not threatening him or others?
You aren't losing your rights----if you don't like it, don't go there. The owner OWNS the place. It is their building. You don't have to go in. They can set whatever requirements they want. They can't break the law either, so they can't search you or touch you---but if they don't want you in there, they can ask you to leave, or have you escorted out.
You make your choices---as does the property owner. If you don't like their requirements, don't step in. But don't go there and complain about lost rights---it is a store. It isn't like they forced you in.
This is separate from issues of public buildings owned by the state, in my opinion, by the way. State buildings we are occasionally REQUIRED to enter, and in those cases, the government has decided we no longer have certain rights---which is interesting, because they choose to remove from us our primary means of self-defense, but they take no responsibility for our defense. I wonder what would happen if the next person who gets hurt in a public building sues the state for not allowing our primary means of self-defense (as stated in the NE constitution) and doesn't take responsibility for defending us? Hmm...
...and that still is completely separate from private buildings and businesses. By the way, property owners can't do ANYTHING other than make you leave. Or not allow you to enter in the first place. (Or call the cops, and then it isn't about the property rules any more.)
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I'd like the opinion of some FFL's here. What do you do when twenty people are in the store handling guns,some that are brought in off the street? I don't think the Bullethole let's you open carry, and gun shows don't. After the ham-handed, dry firing,finger-on-the-trigger waving examples I've seen at gun shows,I wouldn't go if there were a percentage of loaded guns mixed in. :o
The Bullet Hole allows open carry. We dont allow any handling of personal firearms in the retail area, coat room or behind the shooting lanes. Your firearm may only be unholstered or uncased when in a shooting lane and must be recased or reholstered before you step out . If you need your gun looked at or worked on by the staff they will handle it and make it safe.
This has been a constant source of aggravation for us. We have signs posted all over the place stating to not handle your gun but it gets ignored on occasion. And we dont hesitate to call you out in front of a room full of people.
Cant tell you how many times we have been handed a loaded gun that was supposed to be empty.
- Shawn
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Cabela's has the apostrophe in the name making it theirs, as in "it's mine, I make the rules". They are not affecting or taking the rights from anyone that willingly enters the property they own. I don't allow people to smoke in my house, it's not illegal to smoke, but it's mine, I make the rules.
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Shawn,thanks for the correct info. When I've gone to the BH I've only seen cased guns. The only people I've seen handling guns in the store area are the employees. What do you think of Cabela's policy? RJ
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Shawn,thanks for the correct info. When I've gone to the BH I've only seen cased guns. The only people I've seen handling guns in the store area are the employees. What do you think of Cabela's policy? RJ
If everyone entering Cabelas would follow the rules on weapons handling in the store it wouldnt be an issue. But as I can attest, some dont. It doesnt matter how many signs you post.
At The Bullet Hole its pretty easy to spot someone starting to uncase or unholster a weapon. And if they do the guys behind the counter will spot it quickly and deal with it. The size of Cabelas makes this much more difficult.
Having had loaded guns pointed at me by customers, and having been at the range when a customer AD`d in the retail area, I dont have a problem with it. Personally it doesnt affect me at all as I dont open carry.
- Shawn
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Simply put, MY rights end where YOUR rights begin. That line is a fuzzy one at best, but must be agreed upon by both parties involved (common courtesy), and as such the party in control of the property has final say (castle doctorine). (a precedent set by the Supreme Courts of our land, yet obviously forgotten in reguards to a recent ruling for a certain group of anti-Americans and against common decency, another rant for another day!)
My $.02
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The place to complain about your rights being violated is any government property. Your rights have been taken away if you try to carry a legal gun into a government building.
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Was at cabelas today, They have no signs on the door, and now there is a big sign in the entrance where the greeters stand, saying you mustbcheck in firearms you bring in for repair, exchange or service.
I ccw in there. However that could stop as they might ban it. I was at the counter and some smart guy decides to start showing off HIS gun. MORON.
IMO, places that sell firearms are more at risk for an incident because of all the gun nuttery that goes on when some people get together.
Also, unfortunately, some people use firearms, and ccw, to boost self esteem, which leads to them wanting to show people they carry. This type of stuff needs to be adressed in all the classes.
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skydve76...
You are right on.
Here's an excerpt from my CHP Course materials:
Resist Temptation to:
-Show Your Handgun to Others
-Tell Others that You are Carrying a Firearm
and some more:
>Take More Handgun & Safety Courses:
-Legal Aspects of Lethal Force/ Chris Zeeb
-Advanced Tactical Pistol/ Shawn Whittington
It is a Concealed Handgun Permit.
sfg
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If I taugh a class, here is some points I would make, in more words than this but here are terse points:
-Firearm knowledge, is trivial
-Shooting firearms, is trivial
ANYBODY, with not much effort, can learn how to take a gun a part. They can memorize different pistol types. AND they can learn to be very accurate, without much effort. Firearms are designed to be easy to use, and easy to learn, and easy to shoot.
You are nobody special because you have a gun, and the trivial knowledge you have of it. If you are a CCWr, you are someone responsible however.
I'd like to point out that from cases I have been reading, when a person comes off as some type of "firearm expert" they tend to get eaten alive by the prosecution, becuase its easy to make it look like you used excessive force.
Be competent, and just rember nothing about firearms is rocket science, except maybe making them, which no one does except a few.