NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
General Categories => Carry Issues => Topic started by: ivanawfulitch on February 25, 2009, 04:19:52 PM
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I finally got tired of searching and sent an email directly to Marty Conboy, Omaha City Prosecuter, about open carrying legally. Basically, if you already have your Nebraska Concealled Handgun Permit, you can legally carry concealed or open in Omaha. Now we all need to open carry so the public will get used to seeing it.
This is what transpired;
It would require the concealed carry permit authorized by the state. One you get that, you can carry either concealed or open in Omaha.
-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 3:54 PM
To: Conboy III, Marty J (PSC)
Subject: RE: Concealed Carry
By state permit, do you mean the concealed carry permit or is there another permit that I need?
Thank you for your help.
Mike Ellis
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From: Conboy III, Marty J (PSC) [mailto:Marty.Conboy@ci.omaha.ne.us]
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 3:51 PM
To:
Subject: Concealed Carry
The city has passed an ordinance that prohibits open carry, unless you have the state permit. If you have the state permit, you are exempted in the city limits.
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Thanks for posting this.
That is correct, there have been other posts confirming this as well, just remember that your gun also has to be registered in Omaha, which is what has stopped me from open carrying there.
I am all for open carry, and do it myself quite often, but I just can't bring myself to go register a gun in Omaha.
It's not that gun registration keeps me from carrying in Omaha, it just keeps me from going there in the first place.
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Since I live and conceal in Omaha, my gun is already registered. I guess I'm good to go.
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So when did this ordinance that prohibits open carry go into affect? News to me. Don't they realize that contradicts the Nebraska Constitution? Nebraska has always been an open-carry state. You can't just pass an ordinance that says differently without being illegal. Am I right?
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So when did this ordinance that prohibits open carry go into affect?
It has been there as long as I can remember.......
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Don't they realize that contradicts the Nebraska Constitution? Nebraska has always been an open-carry state. You can't just pass an ordinance that says differently without being illegal. Am I right?
Theoretically, you are right....... in actual PRACTICE, though...... theoretically a bumblebee can't fly. In REALITY, the City of Omaha has done just that. They have proven that you can ignore the State Constitution.
You can if; your Only Ones have the people cowed into believing that they are the only ones..... if you have an Attourney's Office with bottomless pockets and offer to sell a permit to OC to anyone that REALLY wants to OC to co-opt any determined opposition that is why they redcognize OUR CHPs as equivalent to their OC permits!)........
IMO, The CHP, OC Permit and gun registration ARE violations of Article I-1 of the Nebraska State Constitution, but opposition has been "bought off" with permits ........ You can't give PERMISSION to excercise a RIGHT. I know, I am part of the problem: I have a CHP, some of my guns are registered with OPD....... I'm takin' what they are givin', 'cause I am workin' for a livin'- I don't have a multi-million dinar (yeah, I said dinar -the Iraqi monopoly money- cuz, that is what the dollar is going to be worth soon!) Attourney's Office to back me up..... just my opinion.
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Has anyone open carried in Omaha?...I'm just wondering if the police showed up and what your experience was? I live in Omaha, so unfortunatley I had to register my weapon when I purchased it. Also, I have my NE CCW permit. I've been thinking I should exercise my U.S. and NE Constitutional rights to open carry...my heasitation is I have a wife & kids so I don't want the hassles of getting arrested for disturbing the peace and fighting the charge in court.
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I've been thinking I should exercise my U.S. and NE Constitutional rights to open carry...my heasitation is I have a wife & kids so I don't want the hassles of getting arrested for disturbing the peace and fighting the charge in court.
You understand the problem perfectly. We have the right, so long as we are not dumb enough to actually try it.
I suspect that if you OC'd in Omaha, you'd have some ninny call the cops on you and they's show up with a SWAT team and if you were LUCKY, you'd be on the ground in cuffs with a 200 lb. cop on your back. If you were less than lucky, you'd get shot.
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If I'm really unlucky they'll also send me the bill for the police response.
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my heasitation is I have a wife & kids so I don't want the hassles of getting arrested for disturbing the peace and fighting the charge in court.
This is a valid reason not to push your luck, don't feel like you're a bad person for feeling this way.
Omaha's OC ordinance might be unconstitutional/illegal, but I do not have the resources (time, money, energy) to fight it.
Protecting your family involves more than just a firearm. You expose them to danger if you are in jail, or in severe debt due to legal fees.
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Protecting your family involves more than just a firearm. You expose them to danger if you are in jail, or in severe debt due to legal fees.
Good point Rich B!
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So, what's the latest story? I've heard from people that the Omaha gun registration law only applies to Omaha residents and that outsiders can carry openly or concealed (if they have a permit). Does anyone know the actual current legality of the matter? I'm from Lincoln, and I have the first Concealed Handgun Permit issued in Nebraska, but I don't know if I can drive through Omaha without risking arrest and charges were I to be stopped by law enforcement for something.
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The Omaha laws are seriously getting out of control. We need to fight back and do something about it.
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I saw a fella OCing in Home Depot at 72nd and Ames a couple of weeks ago. He actually looked kind of silly. He was about 6'5" 250-300 lbs and was carrying a Glock 26/27. He probably could'nt even see the gun when he got his big ol mitts around it. Nobody else even seemed to notice.
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I know a guy who open carried in Omaha (out West) with a couple others to make a statement. Their guns were properly registered and everything.
Man with a gun calls came in, helicopter overhead, cruisers swarming everywhere. They were put on the ground, handcuffed, detained, questioned and I believe some of the guns were confiscated (although OPD later had to return them). Never charged with anything.
Just not a headache you want to have.
We can thank the two guys who open carried rifles across UNL campus for the stricter firearms and ccw laws now on colleges and universities. Those two are directly responsible for causing Senator Avery to pursue stricter laws on College & University property
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I work downtown in Omaha, and in warm weather it's not unusual to see professionally-dressed people open carrying. No police badges; if they have any visible creds at all they're just ID's on neck lanyards that nobody can read anyway. One man last summer was especially conspicuous with a black shoulder rig over a white shirt and tie with dark suit trousers. He was in the plaza on the Farnam Street side of the Civic Center.
Nobody pays any attention.
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Sooooo...... we just have to put on a cheap suit to look like one of TheOnlyOnes? Book Covers and Judgin' and all that.....
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Has anyone contacted the State Attorney General, Jon Bruning, to see what his take is on all this? He would at least see things on a state level, and not just the city level. Just a thought. Thanks!
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Personally, I don't see the point of open carry. If you have a CCW permit, why not conceal it and not attract attention to yourself.
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Personally, I don't see the point of open carry. If you have a CCW permit, why not conceal it and not attract attention to yourself.
Its called the second amendment. The fact that we have to have CCW permit is wrong if you ask me.
More people are killed by cars than guns.
But busy bodies don't call the cops every time they see someone driving a 2 ton weapon down the street.
I to would be interested in the AG opinion as previosly stated.
we are slowly losing our rights and if we don't start standing up for ourselves we will be in the same boat as the citizens of Germany during the nazi era, unarmed and defenseless against anarchy by our own government or the UNITED NATIONS or the Mexican cartels or some thug who couldn't pass a back ground check & doesn't care about rules & laws.
If I had my way every responsible citizen should have a weapon. They wouldn't have to carry it with them but at least have one in the home & available and trained to use it if needed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nf1OgV449g
The biggest challenge we have right now is alot of people today haven't grown up around guns & are afraid of them. Mostly thanks to the liberal media spin on the subject & the false sense of security they get from thinking that the POLICE will be just around the corner if some criminal goes off.
Now don't get me wrong I won't be open carrying because i do have a permit & I would rather not advertise the fact. It's kind of like when I have a pocket full of hundred dollar bills. I would rather not let anyone know. 99.9 percent of the people wouldn't try to take my hundred dollar bills if they were sticking out of my shirt pocket but walk around long enough & some fool will make grab for them.
That would be against the law wouldn't it but the cop's the judge & my friends would say well that wasn't very smart. But I have the right to walk around with hundred dollar bills sticking out of my shirt pocket.
if it is indeed legal to open carry in communist Omaha with or with out CCW permit maybe a open carry neighborhood cleanup should be organized on a monthly basis. Could possibly get some positive media attention. I can hear the headline now "today 50 people with guns pick up garbage in north O & no one get's hurt, mugged or arrested".
After a couple months The media, cops & busy bodies wouldn't pay any attention to us. No news here just another neighborhood clean up.
Pretty soon people would be calling & wanting there neighborhood cleaned up.
I live in the Dakota city area so it is not logical for me to organize something like this. However if someone would take the initiative to check legality with the AG & organize something like this I will drive down to participate & hopefully so would a lot of other folks from all around the state & even neighboring states since we now have reciprocity with other states.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCTEyutQQ18&feature=related
I am available every Saturday & every other Sunday to join in a neighborhood clean up
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Mizzly: I definitely agree with you. Open carry is a right. However Omaha requires people who want to carry openly to "show proof of training" and get their "open carry permit". I think this is unconstitutional. A right is not a priviledge and Omaha is treating it like a priviledge. What we really need to do is after we get "Castle Doctrine" passed this year we will need to make a new priority for next year. I think our priority next year is to fully legalize open carry. Right now Nebraska has no law banning it. But there is no state law stating that you can and won't get in trouble for it. If you were to carry openly in any city in Nebraska you may get charged with "Disturbing the peace" or "Disorderly Conduct" or "Unlawful Carrying of a Weapon". We need to pass an Arizona style law that will turn Nebraska into a "Gold Star" Open Carry state.
This means we need to pass a state law that:
Establishes that Open Carry is a RIGHT and
that no one can be punished for Open Carry in any way shape or form if he/she is legally allowed to own a firearm. This means that you cannot be charged with "Disorderly Conduct" or "Disturbing the Peace" or any other crime simply by going about ones business and carrying a firearm.
Cities, Towns, Villages, and Counties shall also not be permitted to regulate Open Carry in any way shape or form (requiring Open Carry permits or proof of training).
I know you will say: Well it is in our Nebraska Constitution to bear arms.
Yes that is true. But police and prosecutors don't care what the constitution says. They go by what the Nebraska Statutes and their City Codes read. So we need to enshrine open carry in state law to forever end this battle.
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"So we need to enshrine open carry in state law to forever end this battle."
This was done in 1988, by Petition, with the Amendment of Art. I-1..... It took about a year for the Powers That Be (State Supreme Court MIB's and their ilk to limit what the people had explicitly said with a couple of court cases. It wasn't too terrible long after that that these same Powers started trying to limit the Petition Powers given to the people in exchange for going to the Unicameral 60 years ago ........
A lot of folks are thinking, "Why bother reinventing the wheel if some Kingmaker backing a group in the Legisature or some Judge is going to smash it all to hell, or tell you that "wheel" means something different than what you said it did when you made it?"
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I too emailed Mr. Marty... I got a more positive response from him. I have also spent time on opencarry.org, to help get the correct information on open carry in Omaha. Pay attention to lines 8-10. and it is section 20-207 that lays out how to get the training, provided by the national safety council.
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Mr. Conboy,
I'll be to the point as I do not wish to waste your time. What are the requirements for open carry in Omaha? And do you have the references that I may use to provide information to others? I was unsuccessful in finding this information on the OPD website. So I inquired at the Omaha Police Department Headquarters, and before I could finish saying "references", I was referred to you.
Thank you very much for you time, and your work for the city of Omaha.
John Kendrick Meadows
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Subject: RE: Clarification on Omaha's firearm requirements
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 16:34:35 -0600
From: Marty.Conboy@ci.omaha.ne.us
For those with the state CCW permit, there is no restriction. For others, it is necessary to obtain the city 'going armed' permit defined in Sec. 20-206 of the ordinances. You cannot carry concealed in Omaha without the state permit, so this apples to open carry.
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Sec. 20-206. Carrying weapons.
(a) As provided in section 20-192, the carrying of a concealed weapon is expressly forbidden.
(b) In all other cases, it shall be unlawful for a person to go armed with a loaded concealable firearm of any kind or to knowingly carry or transport a concealable firearm in a motor vehicle, provided, however, that this section shall not apply to the following persons:
(1) Persons lawfully entitled to possess a firearm while upon the premises where he or she regularly resides or is regularly employed.
(2) Peace officers.
(3) Members of the armed forces of the United States, the National Guard, or the Reserve Officer Training Corps when on duty or training.
(4) Persons who for any lawful purpose carry an unloaded concealable firearm inside a closed and fastened container or securely wrapped package which is too large to be concealed on the person.
(5) Persons who for any lawful purpose carry or transport an unloaded concealable firearm in a vehicle inside a closed and fastened container or securely wrapped package which is too large to be concealed on the person or inside a cargo or luggage compartment where the concealable firearm will not be readily accessible to any person riding in the vehicle or common carrier.
(6) Persons in or upon a shooting range or the regular business premises of a federally and city licensed firearms dealer.
(7) Persons engaged in a generally recognized course of instruction in the use of firearms, such as hunter safety instructions or instruction for the purpose of obtaining an identification card showing satisfactory completion of the firearm training program as set forth in section 20-207.
(8 ) Persons who have verified to the city that they are entitled to a waiver of the firearm training program as set forth in section 20-207(k).
(9) Persons who have obtained and display an identification card showing satisfactory completion of the firearm training program as set forth in section 20-207.
(10) Persons possessing a valid permit to carry a concealed firearm under Nebraska Law.
(Ord. No. 33113, ? 7, 11-23-93; Ord. No. 34229, ? 1, 6-17-97; Ord. No. 37432, ? 2, 7-18-06)
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Mr. Conboy,
I appreciate your response. And I am sorry for wasting your time like this. I found the information soon after sending the initial email.
Thank you again for the response, and your work for this city!
John Kendrick Meadows
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Subject: RE: Clarification on Omaha's firearm requirements
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 08:16:35 -0600
From: Marty.Conboy@ci.omaha.ne.us
Glad to help. The city really needs to have a more clear listing of the regulations, as there are so many. I'm glad you took the time to sort through it.
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Wasn't all firearms related stuff w/ regard to CHP holders pre-empted by the state last year? Last I heard, Omaha has nothing to say about firearms law when dealing w/ a CHP holder: We don't have to register the guns .... am I wrong?
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You are not wrong Jim.
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Not "all firearms" only handguns are covered
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and, only as pertaining to concealed carry.
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Sorry to see the recall failed. :(
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and, only as pertaining to concealed carry.
So does this mean that if you have the NE CCW but open carry it in Omaha it then needs to be registered because it is no longer concealed?
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It's not that gun registration keeps me from carrying in Omaha, it just keeps me from going there in the first place.
My feelings exactly... it just isn't worth the worry and hassle. I do feel for you guys in Omaha though.
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A couple comments:
Mr. Conboy's "there is no retriction" comment seems to indicate that registration (for those who live outside the city limits) is not required to carry openly, only the state concealed carry permit. That seems contrary to a couple of the statements near the beginning of this thread.
I would say you could open carry in downtown Omaha, as long as you looked like a Fed, and no one would push the panic button. I've seen U.S. Marshals and other Feds in a number of downtown restaurants carrying openly - no widespread panic resulted. On the other hand, if you're carrying openly and you look like one of the people routinely seen hanging out in front of the downtown library, you're likely to end up on your face and wearing handcuffs.
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and, only as pertaining to concealed carry.
So does this mean that if you have the NE CCW but open carry it in Omaha it then needs to be registered because it is no longer concealed?
I don't think so, because the NE Concealed Handgun Permit Act does not say that you HAVE to keep it concealed at all times. :-)
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Chris, is that for sure? I have asked the SP and they either can't or won't give me an answer. Does that mean that if it prints or shows, it's not a crime?
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Chris, is that for sure? I have asked the SP and they either can't or won't give me an answer. Does that mean that if it prints or shows, it's not a crime?
I wouldn't say anything dealing with law is "for sure".
Printing or accidently exposing are NOT A CRIME in Nebraska Statutes.
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It's like they want to confuse me. As you may know they took my ccw license and I'm trying to figure out how to open carry. Can a guy apply for an open carry licence?
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It's like they want to confuse me. As you may know they took my ccw license and I'm trying to figure out how to open carry. Can a guy apply for an open carry licence?
If you don't have a concealed carry permit, it seems pretty clear to me:
(Quoted from an earlier post in this thread.)
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Subject: RE: Clarification on Omaha's firearm requirements
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 16:34:35 -0600
From: Marty.Conboy@ci.omaha.ne.us
For those with the state CCW permit, there is no restriction. For others, it is necessary to obtain the city 'going armed' permit defined in Sec. 20-206 of the ordinances. You cannot carry concealed in Omaha without the state permit, so this apples to open carry.
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Sec. 20-206. Carrying weapons.
(a) As provided in section 20-192, the carrying of a concealed weapon is expressly forbidden.
(b) In all other cases, it shall be unlawful for a person to go armed with a loaded concealable firearm of any kind or to knowingly carry or transport a concealable firearm in a motor vehicle, provided, however, that this section shall not apply to the following persons:
(1) Persons lawfully entitled to possess a firearm while upon the premises where he or she regularly resides or is regularly employed.
(2) Peace officers.
(3) Members of the armed forces of the United States, the National Guard, or the Reserve Officer Training Corps when on duty or training.
(4) Persons who for any lawful purpose carry an unloaded concealable firearm inside a closed and fastened container or securely wrapped package which is too large to be concealed on the person.
(5) Persons who for any lawful purpose carry or transport an unloaded concealable firearm in a vehicle inside a closed and fastened container or securely wrapped package which is too large to be concealed on the person or inside a cargo or luggage compartment where the concealable firearm will not be readily accessible to any person riding in the vehicle or common carrier.
(6) Persons in or upon a shooting range or the regular business premises of a federally and city licensed firearms dealer.
(7) Persons engaged in a generally recognized course of instruction in the use of firearms, such as hunter safety instructions or instruction for the purpose of obtaining an identification card showing satisfactory completion of the firearm training program as set forth in section 20-207.
(8 ) Persons who have verified to the city that they are entitled to a waiver of the firearm training program as set forth in section 20-207(k).
(9) Persons who have obtained and display an identification card showing satisfactory completion of the firearm training program as set forth in section 20-207.
(10) Persons possessing a valid permit to carry a concealed firearm under Nebraska Law.
(Ord. No. 33113, ? 7, 11-23-93; Ord. No. 34229, ? 1, 6-17-97; Ord. No. 37432, ? 2, 7-18-06)
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Computer Cowboy
No such thing in Nebraska as an Open Carry License.
Now---having made that point, Omaha's a Different Situation.
To open carry in Omaha without a NE CHP, you need something called the City of Omaha Handgun Identification Card.
You can get it at the National Safety Council just southeast of 120th and L Streets for $10 and showing your CHP.
If you don't have a CHP, then you need to take an all-day class w/the NSC which also involves a shooting segment. Then you pay and receive your HIC.
You can legally carry throughout Nebraska in an unincorporated area. Since we have a large number of towns and cities, each possibly with their own ordnances, each needs to be checked out for its rules.
Ain't that fun....
You--as much as any one on this forum--know how easily it is to run afoul of anti-handgun fine print.
sfg
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Have you guys even ever seen Marty? nuff said.
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SFG,
Could you elaborate on the below? Kind of confusing. If you have a CHP, not further paperwork, etc needed to OC in Omaha i.e. save myself $10.00. Maybe I am reading your below incorrectly. Thanks for the clarification.
"To open carry in Omaha without a NE CHP, you need something called the City of Omaha Handgun Identification Card.
You can get it at the National Safety Council just southeast of 120th and L Streets for $10 and showing your CHP"
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Still not sure ???
My email Question to the National Safety Council in Omaha:
I have a Concealed Handgun Permit issued by NSP. In order to ?open carry? do I need the ?Open Carry Permit? to open carry in Omaha?
If so, do I just bring my ID by, pay the fee, and have the permit mailed to me?
Response from the National Safety Council:
Wilson,
To openly carry in the City of Omaha you must have the City of Omaha Handgun Identification Card. The Concealed Carry Permit does not waive the Open Carry. So you would need to take the class to get your open carry (City of Omaha Handgun ID Card). The cost of class is $105. Only documents that will waive the class are if you are former Local, State or Federal Peace Officer, you have taken the NRA Basic Pistol Course, or you are former military and have documentation that you have handgun training.
Let me know if you have further questions,
Heather Watts
safety@safenebraska.org
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Ms. Watts should talk with Mr Conboy and consult state law.
Omaha does not have the power to regulate the transportation, possession, registration or ownership of a handgun by any person that possesses a valid concealed handgun permit.
edit to add
ec. 20-206. Carrying weapons.
(a) As provided in section 20-192, the carrying of a concealed weapon is expressly forbidden.
(b) In all other cases, it shall be unlawful for a person to go armed with a loaded concealable firearm of any kind or to knowingly carry or transport a concealable firearm in a motor vehicle, provided, however, that this section shall not apply to the following persons:
10) Persons possessing a valid permit to carry a concealed firearm under Nebraska Law.
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Dan W,
That is how I interpret it......
SFG is one of my more astute brethren, so I was curious if he knew something I didn't (besides higher engineering and math) or I misread his post.
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When Omaha recognized the Nebraska Permit to be able to carry concealed in Omaha they also recognized it as being the equivilant of their open carry permit, so you do not need the OC permit to open carry if you have a CCW.
The note from the National Safety Council, they want your $100. From the comments I have heard from people that took either the CCW course or the open carry course from them is their classes are poor and are just a way for them to discourage people to carry firearms while takeing your money.
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I concur, they just want your money.
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When Omaha recognized the Nebraska Permit to be able to carry concealed in Omaha they also recognized it as being the equivilant of their open carry permit, so you do not need the OC permit to open carry if you have a CCW.
The note from the National Safety Council, they want your $100. From the comments I have heard from people that took either the CCW course or the open carry course from them is their classes are poor and are just a way for them to discourage people to carry firearms while takeing your money.
I have heard the same thing from more than a few people. ::)
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Again, sorry the recall failed.
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It may have failed in the vote, but he knows that he better not upset the two voters that kept him from going down. His new taxes will get him voted out if he runs again.