NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
General Categories => Shooting Sports => Topic started by: bkoenig on August 01, 2010, 03:54:22 PM
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I'm looking to try some 3 gun shooting so I'd like to find out a little about some of the local matches. I know Grand Island and Eastern Nebraska Gun Club both hold 3 gun matches. I'm wondering what I need to know about these particular matches - round count, ammo type, etc. I have an iron sighted AR-15, a Remington 870, and a crappy .40 Sigma. I'm sure if I get into this I'll want to upgrade my shotgun and pistol to something better, but for now I'll run with what I have.
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There are a couple of directors that shoot 3 gun, Rich B and Chris Z. I am sure they will chime in
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3 gunner here since 1995 ;D
Recent relocation from AZ to NE has me looking for matches as well. ENGC has one this month Aug 15 that I plan to attend. GI has nothing scheduled that I can find.
Your equipment is fine. Focus on the skills and making what you have reliable before upgrading.
PM me, I have some gear and pouches you can use if you need them.
Tom
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I have wanted to try this sometime. Where can a group of people meet to learn about the sport and shoot around some?
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Run with what you have for now...... I started with an old 870....... Arms got tired pumping that sucker on 25 round courses so I upgraded to an 11-87.
ENGC matches are a fun time
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So at ENGC what kind of shotgun ammo do I need? Will birdshot suffice or do I need slugs/buckshot?
I'm definitely planning on running what I have for a while. No sense spending more money until I see what works first.
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Birdshot for most matches...... They will occasionally tell you to bring slugs (I don't think I've ever needed buckshot at their matches)...... They will generally post on their website www.easternnebraskapracticalshooters.com if you need to bring slugs.... Never hurts to have a couple boxes on hand in the range bag with you though just in case
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So at ENGC what kind of shotgun ammo do I need? Will birdshot suffice or do I need slugs/buckshot?
I'm definitely planning on running what I have for a while. No sense spending more money until I see what works first.
I'm heading up from Hebron, do you want to car pool? I can get the urban assault minivan from the wife and we can toss all our gear in the back.
Tom
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So at ENGC what kind of shotgun ammo do I need? Will birdshot suffice or do I need slugs/buckshot?
I'm definitely planning on running what I have for a while. No sense spending more money until I see what works first.
I'm heading up from Hebron, do you want to car pool? I can get the urban assault minivan from the wife and we can toss all our gear in the back.
Tom
Sure, although I have a conflict for the August match so I won't make that one. Probably the first match I can make will be the September one in Grand Island.
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I just realized the September match in GI is the day after the NFOA meeting. Two days of shooting fun...sounds good to me!
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It looks like the cool kids are the ones shooting 3-gun. ;)
Roper, if you want to try it, contact the match director and see what kind of ammo is required, and just show up with whatever guns you have now. If you don't own a semi-auto rifle, bring some .223 ammo and I bet that someone will let you borrow one.
If you're near GI, I'll loan you whatever gear you need. We love noobs!
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I just realized the September match in GI is the day after the NFOA meeting. Two days of shooting fun...sounds good to me!
I'm In G.I. and try very hard not to miss any 3gun matches. Lately 1/2 of our shooters have been from Omaha, Lincoln and N Platte. We even had a 6 week multigun league in July, but unfortunately did not get a very good turnout. You can find matches on HPSP's website.
+1 on run what you brung. You have nicer gear than I've been using all year! Just have fun.
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The next ENGC 3-Gun match is going to be in October, and it'll be four stages--one pistol, one rifle, one shotgun, and one a combined pistol/shotgun stage.
We are playing with some ideas for multigun rules, so the pistol/shotgun stage will be scored separately from the other three stages.
When I started, I used a Glock 34, Rem 870, and a Bushmaster Shorty AK-version AR-15, all with iron sights---and did just fine. If it shoots, you can play with the rest of the kids. :) (I still use two out of those three guns for matches.)
Pistol stage will probably be around 30-32 rounds, Shotgun about 20-30 birdshot (7 1/2 or 8 shot work just fine), and Rifle around 35-45. Combined stage (this time) will need about 12 shotgun shells (birdshot) and 12 pistol rounds. Total, I'd bring about 100 rounds of each type, just in case of re-shoots and such. (You won't shoot them all, but I've never lost a match because I brought too much ammo. :) )
The Eastern Nebraska Practical Shooters have a Facebook page where we post stuff periodically (including our new proposed multigun rules in the discussion section there) and also a website at www.easternnebraskapracticalshooters.com as someone has already mentioned.
If you have other questions, feel free to PM me, since (for my sins) I am the 3-Gun coordinator for ENPS.
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Thanks for the info, I definitely plan to try and make it to an ENGC match also.
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Well Brian, judging by the permagrin on your face after the close range rifle and door breaching stages I would guess that you enjoyed yourself on Sunday. I know I did. Tks for visiting. :)
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Thanks, I had a great time. I know what my new favorite shooting game is....
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By the way, has anyone got the results from the Grand Island shoot?
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Go to HPSP's website. Left side "shoot results", multigun. Loks like they havn't been updating it lately (grumble). You will just have to check later.
http://www.grand-island.com/index.aspx?page=1031
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Check back in December........ HPSP is a great place, but they suck at posting results....
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Well, let's just assume I fell somewhere between "horrible" and dead last :D
Anyone going to the October shoot at ENGC? I'm willing to carpool.
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Well I think I'm going to give the three gun match this Sunday (17 OCT) at ENGC a go.
My 28" Remington 870 may not be that well suited for it, and I've got nothing to hold spare magazines for my rifle or spare shells. I'll just consider it a learning experience!
Anyone else planning on heading out for it? I'll try my best not to let any of the rest of you finish last!
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AJ,
I don't know how ENGC designs their courses, but out in GI, a long barrel is not an encumbrance. In fact, longer barrels are an advantage due to the longer sight radius.
For extra shells, keep some in a dump pouch (Maxpedition Roly-Poly is a nice choice) or a cargo pocket for now. Rifle mags can go in a back pocket, or pick up some Bladetech pouches from Brownells. The injection molded AR pouches fit USGI and Pmags.
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AJ, I wasgoing to go to the ENGC match this weekend but I decided to go to a BPCR shoot in Kansas instead. I REALLY want to go to their zombie 3 gun on Halloween but I have family stuff.
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ENGC has a Zombie 3 gun shoot???? Can't make it this year but I know what I'm doing next Halloween.
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Ok, change of plans. I had my dates mixed around, so I am planning on going to the 3 gun at ENGC tomorrow. If only I could make the zombie match...
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I had a great time at ENGC today. I did better than I though I would and managed to not embarrass myself. I forgot my shotgun shell pouch so I learned the hard way that pulling shells out of your back pocket is not an efficient way of reloading your shotgun.
On a happier note I'm really loving the Apex sear in my M&P. I shot much better than I normally do in pistol, and I'm pretty sure it's mostly due to the vastly improved trigger.
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Zombie Match at ENGC! (C'mon, folks, it is a morning match, so you'll have plenty of time to get back home to take your kids out later... :) )
http://www.nebraskafirepower.com/forum/index.php?topic=2732.0 (for the discussion here on the forums)
http://hapkido.4t.com/Zombie1/ZombieMatch.html (for the link to the Zombie Match website)
RE: ENGC 3-gun match in October
Glad you had a good time at the 3-gun match. I had to miss this one, but I'm looking forward to the next one towards the end of November.
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Last ENGC 3-gun match of the year is this Sunday! (November 28th)
C'mon out---we'll have a pistol, rifle, and shotgun stage (one each), plus if we have enough people to help out, we'll also set up a bonus multigun stage (shotgun and pistol, this time) for you to shoot.
Setup starts at 7:15am, shooting at 9am.
http://www.easternnebraskapracticalshooters.com/
http://www.engc.us
See you there!
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I'm going to try...the wife is taking her ccw class that day, so it depends if I can find a babysitter.
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What's the best way for me to get into the practical shooting side of things? I shoot quite a bit on my own, but feel that I could sharpen some skills by getting together with some other folks and doing it under pressure.
I'm not really concerned about winning anything, I really just want to shoot under pressure and do it realistically. Are the three gun matches even what I'm looking for?
If this is what I'm looking for, what are people using for shotguns? I've got two semi autos, are those allowed?
I'm pretty well set on rifle, pistol and chest rig. Any info is appreciated.
Jim
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Practical shooting sports, such as "Three Gun" are a perfect way to build your shooting skills, shoot with others and shoot under pressure. Best thing is to bring your gear to a match and sign up. If you don't have some of the correct equipment there are people who will loan you what you need. This is a good opportunity to see in person what people are using before making investments in your own equipment
The Eastern Nebraska Practical Shooters info and schedule are here:
http://easternnebraskapracticalshooters.com/multigun/multigun.htm
Most people are using Remington 1100 or Benelli M-2 Semi-Auto Shotguns.......... Or Remington 870 pumps
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I'd love to get into 3-gun.
Need a shotgun, set on a Benelli M2 when the funding gets here.
I have a Beretta 45, I doubt that's optimal for 3-gun.
I'm currently turning my 16" AR carbine into a 12.5" SBR, which I also doubt is optimal for 3-gun.
I have a basic MOLLE FLC vest, but I think I want a modular belt instead. Do people run belts?
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Stutzcattle wrote:
"What's the best way for me to get into the practical shooting side of things? I shoot quite a bit on my own, but feel that I could sharpen some skills by getting together with some other folks and doing it under pressure.
I'm not really concerned about winning anything, I really just want to shoot under pressure and do it realistically. Are the three gun matches even what I'm looking for?"
There are probably a large number of opinions out there regarding the "proper" answer to your question. I'll just say that I think that practical shooting, while not teaching or practicing anything resembling defensive tactics, does a good job of helping you improve your shooting skills under a variety of situations you wouldn't normally practice, along with putting you under pressure (physical, mental, and emotional) which is something you simply can't get on your own.
As for whether or not 3-gun is what you want---truthfully, I'd suggest shooting everything---for the simple reason that you can get very different things out of the different shooting sports.
Chris Zeeb holds some great Rock-Your-Glock matches that really push accuracy (and he has an indoor league starting this month in Lincoln, too) http://rockyourglock.tripod.com/
ENGC holds a Steel Challenge match 5 times a year, which takes the accuracy/speed ideas of the RYG matches, and adds drawing from a holster, and steel targets.
ENGC also holds USPSA pistol and Multigun-Rules 3-Gun events. (Pistol once a month, and 3-Gun 6 times a year.) They each stress different things, but all push your limits in shooting---and that is where you get better. I'm not saying they substitute for personal practice, but they certainly enhance your personal practice in a way that again, you just can't get by yourself.
I really would suggest simply trying everything once, and seeing what sorts of things you like. Information about the practical shooting matches at ENGC are found on the Eastern Nebraska Practical Shooters page at: http://www.easternnebraskapracticalshooters.com (or find us on Facebook, because we like to post pictures of people shooting).
First USPSA pistol match of the year is---tomorrow. :) It'll be cold, yes, but it'll still be fun. Pistol, safe hip holster that covers the trigger guard (Uncle Mike's kydex, Blackhawk CQC, Blade-tech sting ray, various leather holsters---but no crossdraw, or shoulder holsters) and about four magazines (and lots of ammo!) and you are good to go. See http://www.nebraskafirepower.com/forum/index.php?topic=3010.0 for some details. Show up, and we'll help you pick what division you are shooting in, give you a safety briefing, squad you with a group of people, and you'll be shooting.
First Steel Challenge match of the year is January 16th (two weeks from tomorrow) Here's a short blurb I wrote about how these run: http://hapkido.4t.comDownloadsSteelChallengeComments.pdf
And here is some video of people of several different skill levels shooting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXsawvc8lgg
"If this is what I'm looking for, what are people using for shotguns? I've got two semi autos, are those allowed?
I'm pretty well set on rifle, pistol and chest rig. Any info is appreciated."
Pumpgun or semi-auto, both are allowed. Here is a short blurb I wrote to describe 3-gun competitions: http://hapkido.4t.com/Downloads/3-GunComments.pdf
One important thing---this year, we are operating under Multigun Rules, instead of USPSA 3-Gun---which makes things a little different. Here are the Multigun Rules we will be using: http://www.easternnebraskapracticalshooters.com/multigun/MultiGunRules2010.pdf
Just so people know what they are getting themselves into, here are a couple of YouTube videos of some of our 3-Gun matches:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-_olOxFYiA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnZRkDATr-k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1CSp7kXy9k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G59Ztn4UuUs
---note, these were shot under the USPSA 3-Gun rules, so it'll be a little different this year.
Some people do run chest rigs and such---but most don't. Our matches aren't like the MGM Ironman, so it isn't necessary. :) Nothing wrong with doing so, mind you---but if you don't have that gear, it is okay. Some people just stick the AR mags into a pocket. Pretty much the big thing that most people don't have, gear-wise, is something to use to reload shotgun shells. Our shotgun stages tend to be lots of rounds, and having a bag full of shells on your hip works--but not very well.
Burnsy87 wrote:
"I'd love to get into 3-gun.
Need a shotgun, set on a Benelli M2 when the funding gets here.
I have a Beretta 45, I doubt that's optimal for 3-gun.
I'm currently turning my 16" AR carbine into a 12.5" SBR, which I also doubt is optimal for 3-gun.
I have a basic MOLLE FLC vest, but I think I want a modular belt instead. Do people run belts?"
You'd be amazed what people try. Quite frankly, the first time you come out, don't worry about winning or placing---just show up and shoot. You'll then know more about what equipment is needed, and what isn't, plus you can talk to people who've been doing it for awhile.
In general, bring what you've got, bring lots of ammo, and come on out--we'll find a way for you to shoot it. Mostly, you just need to bring safe gun handling skills. If you've got that, everything else will work out. :)
See you at the range!
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Thanks for the great info. I'd love to come tomorrow, but thankfully we are having our last Christmas tomorrow. Either that or it's the first one for next year, who knows anymore.
The shoot on the 16th might work for me. Is that in Louisville? How many mags and does caliber make any difference?
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Great reply, thanks jthhapkido.
I'll grab a Benelli M2 once I get my SBR build done. I'd love to start competition shooting.
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I'm all geeked up for 3 gun this year. Got a new scope for my AR today, and a new shotgun on the way.
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My worry about the SBR was that it may not have the necessary velocity to knock down steel at range, but from your videos everything is pretty close and paper. I feel better about the rifle for this competition then.
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Stutzcattle--yes, the Steel Challenge match is at ENGC near Louisville (http://www.engc.us).
You can survive with 2 mags as long as someone can stand behind you and reload one mag while you are shooting a sting with the other. That being said, it makes your life (and everyone else's) much easier if you have 5 mags. So---at least two, and more is good. I bring 25 loaded mags, that way I don't have to load any mags during the whole match. :) But I'm a little strange.
Caliber only makes a difference in terms of what division you are in. Rimfire has its own set of divisions, and so does centerfire. If you are shooting centerfire, you have to have a safe holster to draw from. Rimfire doesn't use a holster. Outside of that, just bring what you have and we'll put you in the right division. There is no power factor or anything like that, so many people reload specific powder-puff "steel challenge" ammo.
Burnsy87--glad it helped. If you don't have a shotgun you like, let me know and you can borrow mine for the 3-gun match. (I used to use a Rem 870 pumpgun, and it worked fine. I'm currently using a Rem 1100, and it is good too. I can bring either---you just need to bring ammo.) Our first multigun match of the year is March 20th.
This year we are going to have two of our five multigun matches on larger bays (a 100 yard and a 300 yard) but the SBR still shouldn't be a problem, even on steel at 300 yards. (Well, other than hitting it in the first place, but that is a problem we'll ALL have. :) )
In the meantime, come to the USPSA pistol matches (first sunday of every month) and the Steel Challenge matches (Jan 16th this month)!
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I've got a super x 2 that I'm gonna make my 3 gun shotgun. What size mag extension do I want? It seems that an eight shell extension would make it longer than my 26 inch barrel.
ETA: I think I figured it out and only need a 3 shot extension. That should put me to 8+1.
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You'll want to be able to hold 8+1 in the chamber. If it sticks out a little past the barrel it won't hurt anything.
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OK, I've carved out sometime for the March 20 match.
Can you give me a sense of ammo load out I need to round up (get it, round up? Folks, it doesn't get any better, so just laugh already).
Will this be one of the larger bay events? If so, I need to rethink my choice of optic on the XCR.
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OK, I've carved out sometime for the March 20 match.
Can you give me a sense of ammo load out I need to round up (get it, round up? Folks, it doesn't get any better, so just laugh already).
Will this be one of the larger bay events? If so, I need to rethink my choice of optic on the XCR.
Lots? :)
There is one pistol stage, one shotgun stage, one rifle/shotgun stage, and one rifle/pistol stage.
Shotgun/rifle on bay5, Rifle/pistol on bay 6, shotgun in bay 2, pistol in bay 3. We aren't using the 100 or 300 yard bays yet---100 yard is next month. 300 is later in the summer.
If you get all "A" hits, you only have to shoot each one once....saves on ammo! :)
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March 20th? Wow, I was thinking the first match was in April. Guess I'd better make sure all my gear is ready.
Joe, I usually bring 100 rounds for each gun. I've never come close to using that much, but it's good to have extra in case you have to reshoot a stage.
I'm about 95% sure I'll make it to the March 20th match. If anyone from the Lincoln area wants to carpool let me know.
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I was looking forward to going to these this year at ENGC, but my company decided to move me to Texas next week. The Zombie match last fall was a lot of fun.
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First Multigun Match at ENGC this year: March 20th
Second Multigun: April 17th
And just to make sure you don't get bored just shooting the same thing all the time, in May, on the 15th, we are having a man-vs-man steel challenge match. Pistol match in the morning, double-elimination tournament; shotgun match in the afternoon, single elimination.
We usually end up with a 4x4 (or 6x6) team shoot at the end. :)
Bring LOTS of ammo to that one...
Man-vs-man is a blast---and REALLY stressful at the same time. You need to drop your steel before your opponent, and once they start shooting it is hard to NOT just blast away.
There are different pistol divisions (limited and open---sometimes we have production also, but it depends on how many people show up for it) and both pump and semi-auto shotgun divisions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xixx3rXdRME&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQEsWHIWeIA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6LiejI6Ays
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu-6BmoGHCc
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So, show of hands. Who's planning on going to the 3 gun on Sunday? Brian, you put together a Lincoln crew to come up?
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I'm a maybe.......... Daughter has a Volleyball tournament that day, don't know what time yet.... If it is an afternoon one, I'll be at ENGC
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I am planning on going to watch.
The weather forcast says chance of rain :'( So, should be a great day :tool:
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So, show of hands. Who's planning on going to the 3 gun on Sunday? Brian, you put together a Lincoln crew to come up?
I'll be there. I have a couple guys I've been badgering to come along. One has a conflict and can't make it, the other is a maybe. I have a standing offer if anyone wants to try it they can use my guns, just provide the ammo.
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Well, both of my guys ended up having conflicts so as of now I'm coming by myself. If anyone wants to carpool from Lincoln let me know.
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A big thank you to Terry, Ken, Chris, Tim, Tony, Ardi, and Doug for the great match and fun stages.
Despite an equipment snafu on the first stage, and mental fail-to-feed on the third, I had more fun shooting than I have in a long time.
Can't wait for the next one!
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I had a ton of fun. ENGC put on a great match as usual yesterday. I tried out some new gear and was happy with how it performed. The only problems I had were between my ears. Nothing like screwing up a good stage because you forget to shoot one of the targets.
Joe, what squad did you shoot in? I was in the first one.
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I had a ton of fun. ENGC put on a great match as usual yesterday. I tried out some new gear and was happy with how it performed. The only problems I had were between my ears. Nothing like screwing up a good stage because you forget to shoot one of the targets.
Joe, what squad did you shoot in? I was in the first one.
Well, I'm hooked - can't wait for the next shoot. ENPS put on a great match yesterday. Thanks to all who helped it run so smoothly.
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@bkoenig
Me, too. I was the chap who made the brilliant decision to use his pump gun instead of his competition shotgun because I forgot the sidesaddle.
Then, I learned the hard way that an 18" barrel + cylinder bore + No. 8 shot won't knock the plates off the Texas star, regardless of how many times you hit them.
Was your new gear that sharp-looking 935?
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Ok, so that was you. That was crazy seeing the lead shot bounce off the plates without knocking them over. I was just glad you went before me so I knew to change to a modified choke! I was shooting the 930. It ran really well. I had one stovepipe that was easy to clear. I've heard that the 930's take a couple hundred rounds to break in and be really reliable with light loads. I had a Choate extension on it before and had a lot of feeding problems. Once I ponied up for a Nordic tube it ran a lot better.
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Glad everyone had a good time! The next ENGC Multigun match is April 17th, so put that on your calendars!
In the meantime, feel free to come up this Sunday for the USPSA pistol match. Always a good time.... :)
(And practice up---the man-vs-man match is coming up in May.)
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Ok, who's going to the ENGC match on the 17th? As always, I'm willing to carpool with any Lincoln shooters.
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Ok, who's going to the ENGC match on the 17th? As always, I'm willing to carpool with any Lincoln shooters.
Not this one; Appleseed in Broken Bow this weekend.
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Ok, who's going to the ENGC match on the 17th? As always, I'm willing to carpool with any Lincoln shooters.
Three stages this Sunday----one shotgun, one pistol/shotgun, and one pistol/rifle. The pistol/rifle is on the 100 yard range, so make sure you know where your rifle hits from 5 yards out to 100. (Bill is being good enough to bring out his reactive steel for the distance hits, so we won't have to walk all the way out there to reset.)
Each stage will probably NOT be short. Bring plenty of ammo!
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Multigun match at ENGC July 3rd. I'm planning on going. Anyone else?
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Multigun match at ENGC July 3rd. I'm planning on going. Anyone else?
I'll be there! Should be good---four stages this Sunday, one each of pistol, rifle, and shotgun, then one more with all three guns. Fun time! (C'mon everyone, you know you want to do it...)
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If anyone wants try it out but doesnt have the guns just send me a message. Bring your own ammo and you can use my gear. It's the most fun you can have with your clothes on....
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Ok, change of plans...I won't be able to make this match :(
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Well, since I couldn't make the ENGC match I think I'm going to head to Grand Island for their match tomorrow. Anyone in the Lincoln/Omaha are want to go?
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When is the next 3 gun match? I need to make it to one of these this year.
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I don't think anyone has any more scheduled until September. Probably a good idea, the Grand Island one a couple weeks ago was HOT. I burned the crap out of my left hand on my shotgun barrel. It sat in the sun for about 30 minutes before I shot, then I dumped 21 rounds through it as fast as I could load and yank the trigger. There was a guy in our squad who burned his fingers so bad on his 870 that he got blisters.
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When is the next 3 gun match? I need to make it to one of these this year.
ENGC's next 3-gun/Multigun match is September 18th, so you have some time to practice. :)
(We have a Steel Challenge match on the last Sunday of this month, and a USPSA Action Pistol match the first Sunday of next month, just to give you something to do, though...)