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(https://sites.google.com/a/mwts-training.com/mwts-training-com/_/rsrc/1365060515307/SAPPRC/LOGO%20copy.png?height=200&width=400)
November 10th 2013 Gresham, Nebraska
All proceeds donated to the Nebraska Firearms Owners Association
Click here for more details (http://www.mwts-training.com/SAPPRC)
Test your precision and long-range rifle skills at this fun and challenging match!!!
Registration:
$50 Adult
$40 Youth
(18 and under)
12 Shooters Maximum
Registration closes 10th of October
Spectators welcome at no charge
SAPPRC T-shirt available for additional $35
Click here to register online (https://docs.google.com/a/mwts-training.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dDF4Q3FxUnVobTIyTzJyb0xQZzBGT0E6MA)
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There will be a prize table with donated prizes, as I have a few interested parties already. If you would like to donate prizes or help out with the match, please contact me.
And just for the NFOA forum visitors, here is preview of the T-Shirt:
(https://sites.google.com/a/mwts-training.com/mwts-training-com/SAPPRC/T-Shirt%20Back.JPG)
(https://sites.google.com/a/mwts-training.com/mwts-training-com/SAPPRC/T-Shirt%20Front.JPG)
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Aww man.....that's opening weekend of deer season. I was looking forward to this, too, but Bambi killing takes precedence.
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Not according to NE game and parks:
http://outdoornebraska.ne.gov/hunting/pdf/OpeningDates-ApplicationPeriods.pdf (http://outdoornebraska.ne.gov/hunting/pdf/OpeningDates-ApplicationPeriods.pdf)
Somewhere on the NEGP website they still have the 2012 dates up, and they make it look like they are the 2013 dates. I sent them an email about it, looks like they haven't fixed it.
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It's usually the second weekend in November, unless they change it.
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Here is another publication from NGP, showing the same dates: 16-24th
http://outdoornebraska.ne.gov/hunting/pdf/AllOpening%20Dates.pdf (http://outdoornebraska.ne.gov/hunting/pdf/AllOpening%20Dates.pdf)
So apparently, they did change it :)
I was being very careful when I picked this date, but if something does change with deer rifle season, the match date will be moved up appropriately to avoid interference.
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Well, then....I'll just have to show up.
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i want to do this, but i've never shot out that far... so i'm intimidated.
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i want to do this, but i've never shot out that far... so i'm intimidated.
Neither have I, but that's why I want to do it.
Worst case is I miss all my shots, look like a fool, and waste a bunch of ammo. It's still a day at the range.
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Worst case is I miss all my shots, look like a fool, and waste a bunch of ammo. It's still a day at the range.
You are going to have plenty of company---and besides, it isn't THAT much ammo. :)
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Neither have I, but that's why I want to do it.
Worst case is I miss all my shots, look like a fool, and waste a bunch of ammo. It's still a day at the range.
true sounds like a ton of fun. i'm more worried about sending a bullet out of the range.... and i don't think my scope goes to 900 meters.
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Just a heads up: The match is filling up pretty quick, but I will open up the 3 reserve slots (taking the total number to 15) for Brian, Thomas, and Robert, if necessary.
I found out via email that I have 4 actual PRS members expected to sign up, so there will be some seasoned shooters on the line to help out the newbies. Assuming this goes well, I hope to make this an annual thing, and as I gain experience with running formal matches, it will become bigger and better with more competitor slots in coming years.
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Ok, I just signed up. Now I need to get some dope out to 900 meters...maybe if I can get a break from playing farmer this weekend.
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Just a heads up: The match is filling up pretty quick, but I will open up the 3 reserve slots (taking the total number to 15) for Brian, Thomas, and Robert, if necessary.
Oh, this is going to be such a bad idea...
...all right, going to go register now.
Just remember---I don't know anything about long distances, and I've never even fired a rifle past a distance of 600 yards. Matter of fact, in my entire life, I've probably fired less than 200 rounds at targets farther than 300 yards.
This should be----amusing. To everyone else. [sigh]
I'm thinking that I need to get myself and my rifle(s) to the range, to see what I should be using, here. I'm a LOT more used to my .223, but I've got a Rem 700 in .308 that I could use, too---though I don't have any precision ammo for it. [sigh] I suppose I had better get some to test.
I found out via email that I have 4 actual PRS members expected to sign up, so there will be some seasoned shooters on the line to help out the newbies. Assuming this goes well, I hope to make this an annual thing, and as I gain experience with running formal matches, it will become bigger and better with more competitor slots in coming years.
Uh-oh. People who actually know what they are doing?
You ARE going to have a prize for "worst shot," right? Just so I can get something for this? :)
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Any particular type of laser range finder that people really like for this kind of thing?
Thanks, you've given me an excuse to get one!
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Any particular type of laser range finder that people really like for this kind of thing?
Thanks, you've given me an excuse to get one!
That was my thought, too. I'm debating on running to Scheels and picking one up this week so I can (hopefully) try it out this weekend.
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That was my thought, too. I'm debating on running to Scheels and picking one up this week so I can (hopefully) try it out this weekend.
I'm just glad I have until November to get myself up to speed. Because it'll probably take that long to get it so that my rifle and I agree on things past 300 yards!
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If I had (or could afford) even half the equipment for this, I would sign up...
But as it is I only have red dots on all of my rifles (with a 3x magnifier that will do virtually nothing to help at that range!) and I have no other equipment that would help here. ???
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I'm just glad I have until November to get myself up to speed. Because it'll probably take that long to get it so that my rifle and I agree on things past 300 yards!
The only place I have to shoot long range is the family farm 3 hours north of here, so getting everything set up is going to take some effort.
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Any particular type of laser range finder that people really like for this kind of thing?
I recently broke down and bought a LRF. Luckily at the Missouri match I had a chance to check out several different makes and models. Swaro, Leica, Vectronix, and some Bushnell stuff is what is being used most of the time. Lasing reliably beyond 500 or so is gonna be a bit pricey. The Swaro Laserguide is by far the best bang for the buck, and I was able to pick up a very lightly used one for $600 (normally $1000 new).
Assuming ya'll don't want to spend too much money on your first match, I would skip the LRF and get aqcuainted with mil relation formula (even if you are buying a good LRF, you should at least be familiar with mil relation as a backup). You should be able to get a reading, and run the formula, within 10 seconds. If you can do that, you'll be fine. Target dimensions will be given prior to the stage for any UKD, so you can have your constants already worked out, and it is a single division problem from there.
Complete formula:
( Target size in inches X 27.8 )
Mil reading
Equals target range in yards
Two part formula:
(Target size in inches) X (27.8 for yards) = Constant
This is the part that you can do before the stage, although you may have more than one constant to remember, so I would make a sketch. I actually have a giant sheet of constants in my databook that I can reference, so this part of the formula is already done for me.
(Constant) / (Mil Reading) = Range in yards
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/247495_617616101600532_883285602_n.png)
Target is 24"x24"
Reticle is Nightforce MLR (Similar to Leupy TMR)
Mag is set correctly for ranging
24 X 27.7 = 666.48
Mil reading is ~0.8
666.48 / 0.8 = 833.1 yards
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Math is hard.
I'm a newbie to mil ranging, but wouldn't it be easier to figure it in meters and just know your clicks for that measurement? I have a mil reticle and turrets for mil clicks, so that should simplify things, right?
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Mil relation is to give you the range to the target only, not your firing solution :)
Mils work well with yards or meters. If you want to figure your range in meters, the formula looks the same, just use target height in inches X 25.4 instead of 27.8 to get your constant.
You use that range to determine your firing solution. Comes back your firing rhythm:
Gather Data
Range and wind are your big 2. This is where your mil relation formula is used, to determine the range to the target.
Example:
Target range is 520
Wind is full value 5 mph
Develop and Implement firing solution
Use that gathered data to develop a firing solution.
Example: (I'm making numbers up here)
Elevation dial up 3.6 (based from your range using your dope as reference)
Windage hold left 1.3 (based on your wind, either using a formula, or the British method with your dope as reference. I recommend the latter.)
Fire
Practice good fundamentals. It is also good to have a set rythm for actually firing, and practice it to make it second nature. This can be done in dry fire. Nothing like missing a shot and realizing after the fact that your head placement was crap or you forgot to check your level. Don't get stuck on your wind correction either. Wind changes, be flexible.
Observe
Practice good follow through with minimal-to-no recovery from the recoil to spot your splash. This is in case a second round correction is necessary.
Adjust and fire
Using what you observed from your splash, implement a hasty correction (this is where having matching dials and reticle can really pay off), usually using holdover for small adjustments, but dialing if you are way off.
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Ok, I realized where I wasn't connecting the dots. I was thinking if you knew the target size in meters it would be easier to calculate the range in meters, but if it's given to you in inches you'll still have to do math.
I'm just a simple caveman. Math is hard.
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Looks like all my email pestering is paying off! The sponsor list is taking off!!
I have confirmation emails from the following companies:
Redding Reloading Equipment
American Reaper Arms (Who will also be competing in the match, using a reserve slot)
Impact Data Books
Nebraskacoyote.com
Sierra Bullets (They never actually said yes or no, but they are asking for an address to send things to)
At this time there are 4 spots left for regular competitors, and I don't expect them to last long.
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i've decided not to do this match. i may however come watch, maybe help out. it all depends on my work schedule.
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Check is in the mail and I got an order of SMK's yesterday.
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i've decided not to do this match. i may however come watch, maybe help out. it all depends on my work schedule.
No worries, and it is always good to have another hand. Let me know if you will be available.
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David Hineline on the NFOA FB group asked why adjustable turrets are required. Given that it was Facebook, I gave a brief response to the effect that I don't like setting people up for failure. It was short worded, and I do feel this is a valid question (my inbox has been blowing up with questions about the match, as most people have never heard of PRS) and I feel it deserves a better answer.
Wonder why you specify Scope must have adjustment capability, not everyone shoots target turrets.
The nature of the precision rifle competition is being able to hit (consistently) MOA targets from the prone from 100 to ~1000 or more, and hit (consistently) 1-3 MOA targets from much-less-than-ideal improvised positions from 100-~600 or more. All under field conditions, all with the same rifle, ammo, and optic. Adjustable turrets is a common requirement at PRS and PRS styled matches.
Now I assume that David is referring to either ACOG type optics or closed turret hunting glass. With the exception of a very small percentage of well practiced, skilled, and talented shooters, the above tasks will prove nearly impossible with these optics.
ACOGS and other similar optics are, for all intents and purposes (assuming the rifle/ammo is capable), at best, only truly effective against a full size IPSC out to 600, under ideal conditions from the prone. That is, at its best, a 2-3 MOA capability given a fairly skilled marksman, at 2/3 the max range of the match. Now add field conditions (i.e. 15-20mph winds), improvised positions, and a time constraint.
Without the ability to dial, you will find yourself holding for both windage and elevation, and you will run out of the latter very quickly, unless you are using a "poor man's horus" or a real horus (and I am not aware of any closed dial scope with a horus reticle, although it may exist). Holding is not an ideal method of correction, with the exception of wind, and only because wind is generally a changing effect. For elevation, it is not something we want to do, it is something we have to do... in a pinch. Double holdover is going to significantly decrease a shooters accuracy to the point of.. well.. good luck hitting much in this match, save for minor second shot corrections.
Now, I realize that there are world class shooters out there, whom these statements do not apply. If someone *really* wants to enter and shoot the match with closed turrets, I'm not going to turn them away.
This type of match is new to this area, and I would like everyone to have a good experience. So they come back next year, go to other matches of this type, and this style/type of shooting increases in popularity. I am working very hard and very carefully to ensure that the match will be challenging to the seasoned shooters, while still fun and educational for the new shooters (no one should go home with a score sheet full of zeros). This is a delicate balance to maintain, and I cannot maintain it while trying to account for those who want to bring unfit equipment. They would more than likely go home with zeros, tell their friends that PRS is stupid and I'm a jackass.
That is what I meant by not setting people up for failure. I don't want anyone to go home with a sheet full of zeros. If there is enough interest, I would consider holding a similar match for the "designated marksman" crowd. Larger targets, shorter max range, some close range stuff integrated, semi-autos only, max of 308, and maybe a limit on glass magnification or something. Not this year though, maybe next.
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I would love to do this, but can't convince myself without having a clue as to what I am doing.
In my search for knowledge on long range shooting, I came across a website
http://www.shootingvoodoo.com/ (http://www.shootingvoodoo.com/)
that seems to have some great information for people like me that are un-knowlegeable.
Check out the articles and the library as it contains lots of dope pages to assist in building your data book.
Now if JTH and Mud would meet me at ENGC, we could practice and share our experiences :-[
I'll bring my steel plates. :D
Anybody else on a weekend?
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If there is enough interest, I would consider holding a similar match for the "designated marksman" crowd. Larger targets, shorter max range, some close range stuff integrated, semi-autos only, max of 308, and maybe a limit on glass magnification or something. Not this year though, maybe next.
I'd guess that you'd get a LOT of interest in this sort of thing. A huge amount, actually.
Given that most people just don't have the range to shoot past 600, and shooting close and far IS fun, plus many people around here like pulling out their ARs for shooting, I'm thinking people would really like this. (As a suggestion, the limit on magnification would be better served by using tape as opposed to making people switch out their optics.)
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Bkoenig thinks I should do this with the AR10 I just built.
I think my skills need improving first lol
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A DMR style shoot does sound like fun.
Question - for improvised positions where you can't use a bipod from prone, is a sling an acceptable shooting aid?
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That's a good idea, Koz. We should get a bunch of people together for a practice session, even if we can't get all the way out to 900.
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That's a good idea, Koz. We should get a bunch of people together for a practice session, even if we can't get all the way out to 900.
Gotta start somewhere. I need to zero yet, so 600 is plenty at this point. Had planned on my zero at 200yds. The range at ENGC does go downhill IIRC. Brings a minor adjustment to your dope. Maybe?
Need to check the schedule, but I would bet that a Saturday after about 3 would give us a pretty clear range. ...................gotta figure out if RO needs to be present, since I have never used the 600 range.
So, yes, I would love to get together and share some ideas and knowledge ( or lack of ) with a few other rookies.
Saturday May 11, ENGC has XTC match on the 600 that ends at 3pm ??
Anybody interested for May 11 at 3pm? Supposed to be windy.
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I'm tied up this weekend and the next so I can't make it. Does ENGC allow guests to shoot?
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ENGC members may bring guests, yes. I think it's $5 per guest, max 3. Member must stay with the guests.
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Question - for improvised positions where you can't use a bipod from prone, is a sling an acceptable shooting aid?
The sling does see some use for unsupported positions in PRS, but generally, if you are trying to use it with improvised support, it will often prove too cumbersome to be very useful under time constraint. Shooting a completely unsupported position is fairly rare in PRS.
The range at ENGC does go downhill IIRC. Brings a minor adjustment to your dope. Maybe?
...................gotta figure out if RO needs to be present, since I have never used the 600 range.
In order: Yes it has some slope. I would zero on the 300 or 100 before I bothered trying to fix my zero off of a ~.90ish (going completely off memory) slope. Just making things more complicated than they need to be. The 600 does not require an RO, unless something major has changed since I was there last. Also, watch your bore offset when shooting from the prone up there, unless they fixed it, you may have to move forward of the roof quite a bit.
http://www.shootingvoodoo.com/ (http://www.shootingvoodoo.com/)
Is a great website, probably one of the best. Snipershide.com has a lot of resources, just use the search function. The snipershide online training is pretty good. The magpul PR video has (I'm using this word liberally here) "some" good info, but it is also a lot of gear pushing, and they skip past alot of the fundamentals.
Koz has the right idea though... do some research and get out and shoot!! Help each other, and if I have time, I'll come and shoot with you. If you read the match site carefully, everything that will be in the match is on there. Either it is hinted at or just flat out stated. For example: I recommend having a method of ranging targets, this tells you...? If it is not hinted at or mentioned in the match webpage, you probably don't need to worry about it :)
Also, please get in the habit of keeping your bolts open, mags out, and muzzles up during movement. These three things are weird to most new shooters, who are used to relying on safeties and carrying at the low ready, and I really don't want to DQ anyone.
*Mags out is only used for longer and awkward movements, normally keeping your bolt open (or just safety on for semi autos) will be fine for shorter/simpler movements.
*For semi-autos, the absolute best way to do this is load magazines for each firing point. If position one has 4 rounds, load a mag with four rounds. Fire at that position, your bolt locks to the rear, flip to safe, drop your mag, and you are ready to go. This can also be handy for bolt guns, so you don't end up like me and loosing time because you automatically ran the bolt after the last round, and now you have to go back through and clear your weapon before you can move.
I'd guess that you'd get a LOT of interest in this sort of thing. A huge amount, actually.
I figured as much. I'm going to do quite a bit of research before attempting such a thing, as the rules have to be carefully crafted to keep the true PR guys out :) And the stages have to be crafted to be both conducive and challenging to the DM crowd. Alot of the stages for the PR match simply won't translate over very well.
BTW, I think you will really enjoy the pistol integrated into the stages of this match.
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What I might suggest for a first practice session. I often bring my laptop to the range with me so I can do this in one sitting. While not as good quality, you can do all of this inside of 600.
Developing a baseline algorithm:
1. Shoot through a chronograph 5 times, average the number. If you don't have a chrony, just guesstimate using others results (google search) or your ballistic calculator's database, if it has one.
2. Input data into a ballistic calculator, ensure all information is correct to the best of your knowledge.
3. Save and print it off if necessary.
Truing an algorithm:
1. Set at least two (preferable more) targets up at varying ranges between 300 and 1000. I usually go with 450, 600, and 800. Be sure of the range to the targets. I use GPS for this.
2. Record accurate atmospheric info.
3. Adjust from your baseline to get solid center mass hits. If you are already spot on at all ranges, you are a lucky SOB.
4. Record your dope. We are mostly worried about elevation here, not so much wind.
5. Do steps three and four for each target. Repeat step two if necessary.
6. Go back to your ballistic calculator, pull up your saved algorithm from before. Find the truing function. In exbal it is called "trajectory validation." I'm not sure for other calculators, but a google search or referencing the calculators instructions would probably prove fruitful. If your calculator doesn't have this function (such as most free online ones) you will have to adjust manually.
7. You enter your recorded data into the trajectory validation, including atmospherics. You should be able to put in at least 4 targets on any decent calculator. The program will then correct your algorithm by adjusting your muzzle velocity to what it actually is. (Even high end chronies are +/- 40fps) It should normally not mess with any other values. You can see here why consistent velocity is essential.
8. This is now your algorithm. If your going to print it off, set temp and humidity to nominal (I use 60 degrees F), and print off three different versions. One version at 500 feet density altitude (will be used for 0-1000), one at 1500 (will be used at 1000-2000), and one at 2500 (those will usually serve well for this area, although the density altitude rarely drops below 1000). I usually go with range intervals of 50, but that is all up to you. Make sure to save this algorithm, as you may find it needs further refinement.
If you believe any refinement is necessary beyond this point, it is time to set up targets and record solid data from 100-1000 in increments of 100. Retrue your algorithm like you did before. Then set your field conditions to what they really were. Start playing with the BC till it looks just perfect with every single target you recorded. Then you are good to go.
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My head hurts ???
Lets see here, learn to shoot the old fashioned way by ranging thru your scope and throwing more ammo down range than I can afford, or the new way with a bunch of expensive gadgets that tells you what to do the 1st shot so you waste less ammo.
Quite the dilemma for the pure sport shooter.
All is good here, just my brain on overload. ;)
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About the only thing you really need is a ballistic calculator. There are apps for most phones that are decent and have the truing function.
For weather data: Interwebs. There are weather data stations everywhere and the data can be found online. Better close than nothing.
The only thing you end up actually using in the field is a small piece of paper, usually taped to your rifle somewhere.
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I found what seems so far to be a pretty decent ballistic calculator for the iphone. It's called "Ballistic", strangely enough...
It looks like it has the features Wallace mentioned, but it also has a neat ranging feature. You just punch in the target size and scroll the wheel until the target matches what you see through the reticle, and it does the calculation for you.
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee412/alemonkey/D7E8EC48-EE60-495C-8F0F-D5CBD50B04DC-8607-00000677FDE995C6_zpsc3822bae.jpg)
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Well, other people should sign up for this, because it is certainly true that they won't come in last.
I'm pretty sure I will.
Made it to the range and took out my .308 (that I haven't shot in 8 years---literally) and tried to remember how a bolt-action gun worked.
Yeah, that went well. [sigh]
I know---I'll just buy a whole lot of stuff and bolt it to the gun! You can make up for poor shooting by using expensive equipment, right?
Right?
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Well, other people should sign up for this, because it is certainly true that they won't come in last.
I'm pretty sure I will.
Well, other people should sign up for this, because it is certainly true that they won't come in last.
I'm pretty sure I will.
Made it to the range and took out my .308 (that I haven't shot in 8 years---literally) and tried to remember how a bolt-action gun worked.
Yeah, that went well. [sigh]
I know---I'll just buy a whole lot of stuff and bolt it to the gun! You can make up for poor shooting by using expensive equipment, right?
Right?
Too bad the pistol shoot won't count for score, you could definitely help your score there ;D
Don't own a bolt action anything any more. And its been years since I even handled one handled one.
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Too bad the pistol shoot won't count for score, you could definitely help your score there ;D
Don't own a bolt action anything any more. And its been years since I even handled one handled one.
I thought about using one of my ARs, but they are all in .223 and I decided that 900 yards-worth of wind on a .223 round will change my chances from "almost close to zero" to "ridiculously close to zero," so a bolt-action .308 it is...
(If I had a LaRue OBR, we'd be having a different conversation.... :) )
(sigh) It would indeed be nice if Jon added some of the pistol stuff to the score....
[hint, hint!]
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Been trying to get a grasp on this Density Altitude thing.
A friend at work just got his pilot license. He flies small Cesna type airplanes out of North Omaha. As a pilot, he has firsthand knowledge of DA. He told me that as of this AM at 11:00, the DA at Blair airport was just short of 4000'. This is from a set altitude of close to 1300'.
Now I took this info and went to Federal Ballistics website and entered for 175 SMK 308cal. 1st entry at 1300' and temp of 70. 2nd entry at 3500 ' and temp of 70. Both with 200yd zero.
The trajectory diff was only 1.3" at 500yds, 2.8" at 600yds, 4.9" at 700yds, up to 19.3" at 1000 yds.
I found this incredible, as I had no idea that around here (Omaha area) that we could have such a huge swing in altitude which affects ballistics by a huge amount when trying to engage a 24" target.
Just an FYI and hope I am correct. :-\
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Been trying to get a grasp on this Density Altitude thing.
A friend at work just got his pilot license. He flies small Cesna type airplanes out of North Omaha. As a pilot, he has firsthand knowledge of DA. He told me that as of this AM at 11:00, the DA at Blair airport was just short of 4000'. This is from a set altitude of close to 1300'.
Now I took this info and went to Federal Ballistics website and entered for 175 SMK 308cal. 1st entry at 1300' and temp of 70. 2nd entry at 3500 ' and temp of 70. Both with 200yd zero.
The trajectory diff was only 1.3" at 500yds, 2.8" at 600yds, 4.9" at 700yds, up to 19.3" at 1000 yds.
I found this incredible, as I had no idea that around here (Omaha area) that we could have such a huge swing in altitude which affects ballistics by a huge amount when trying to engage a 24" target.
Just an FYI and hope I am correct. :-\
Did this calculator ask for any kind of barometric pressure or pressure altitude? Calculating density altitude starts by taking your elevation and correcting it for non-standard pressure which results in the "Pressure Altitude". Then you take the Pressure Altitude and adjust it for non-standard temperature which gives you the "Density Altitude".
High temperatures, low pressure, and humid air will all increase the Density Altitude.
Fly
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Did this calculator ask for any kind of barometric pressure or pressure altitude?
Not sure how the info is calculated. He has an app on his phone and dials up the conditions at each airport that he may fly to. I assume that the data is calculated at each airport. I'll see if I can find out what the app is.
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I've been playing with different altitudes and barometric pressures and it's amazing how much difference it makes at long ranges. According to the charts, with my 20" barreled .308 I'm able to keep an 180 gr SMK supersonic well past 1000 yards if I'm at Lincoln elevation, but drop it down near sea level and it goes subsonic around 950 or so. At lower elevations it looks like I'll run out of clicks on my scope, but around here I have plenty to spare.
I wanted to try some 178 gr Amax or 175 SMK's, but they're like hen's teeth right now. From what I've read the 180 SMK isn't the best long range bullet because of the shape of its tail. Hopefully I can use what I have to work up a useable load, and when some Amax bullets become available I can give them a try.
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My guy at work uses the program called Foreflight and then some link called metars ?
Like he can punch up KK46 for Blair, then go to the metars and the info is there.
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I just ordered some AR500 targets. One 12" gong and one half size IPSC silhouette, paid a hair over $80 shipped which seems to be pretty cheap. Now if I can just get some time to try and stretch the legs on my rifle....
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I assume that the data is calculated at each airport. I'll see if I can find out what the app is.
Yes, the pressure or altimeter setting as it is known to pilots is calculated at each airport that makes such reports. Otherwise, if you pulled up a town that had no official weather reporting, the pressure would be an estimate using surrounding station data. Most weather apps will tell you the altimeter for a specific location. I use The Weather Channel app for an un-official source of weather information.
My guy at work uses the program called Foreflight and then some link called metars ?
Yes, a METAR is the official current condition report that pilots use.
The pressure (altimeter setting) you get from these sources is not the actual pressure at the station. It is actually representative of what the barometric pressure would be at sea level given the barometric conditions at the station. For example, if the pressure is reported as 29.92" at Lincoln, the ACTUAL pressure would be approximately 28.72" since the Lincoln airport is about 1,200ft. Sounds goofy, but there is an important reason for this in aviation.
My assumption is that the ballistic calculators will use the common pressure read from most weather sources.
Fly
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If anyone is interested in attending a similar style match here's one in Missouri I ran across.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_9_3/232686_MISSOURI___NEW_STEEL_LONG_RANGE_TACTICAL_PRECISION_MATCH____JUNE_23RD___HOUSTON__MO.html (http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_9_3/232686_MISSOURI___NEW_STEEL_LONG_RANGE_TACTICAL_PRECISION_MATCH____JUNE_23RD___HOUSTON__MO.html)
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A package showed up today from Redding Reloading Equipment. They have generously donated two 50% off gift certificates to the SAPPRC prize table!!
More info on Redding:
http://www.redding-reloading.com/ (http://www.redding-reloading.com/)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/r270/931299_626712660690876_86844302_n.jpg)
I use Redding comp dies for .308, and they are definitely among the best, IMO. As near as I can tell, these gift certificates are for 50% off of an order of unlimited size. We also have a 8" Rifle Gong donated by www.nebraskacoyote.com (http://www.nebraskacoyote.com), and a $100 gift certificate from Centrolutions/MWTS. More prizes are on the way, from companies like Nightforce Optics and Run-N-Iron Customizing. And don't worry, some prizes will be saved for "tough luck."
On a separate note, I was out on the main match area last week, the wind was so strong that I had to anchor down the spotting scope. I Kestrel'ed the wind at the firing point at up to 35mph, full value. Be ready for it!
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Very nice. I also use Redding dies for .308. Good stuff.
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(sigh) It would indeed be nice if Jon added some of the pistol stuff to the score....
You actually gave me pretty good idea this weekend.
No pistol targets will inherently be worth points (and you still have to hit them all), but there may, or may not, be an opportunity to get *bonus* points on some pistol stuff. (Not gear related)
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Still three slots left folks!
I've been holding off on marketing this too hard, cause I would prefer this to be all local/NFOA guys.
Worked on targets and some other match-related stuff today. If you want to help out, let me know. We could always use an extra hand, and you are welcome to shoot the course with me the day before.
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And another package for the prize table from Brownell's/Sinclair International. A whole boat load of gift certificates!!
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/r270/379626_630782126950596_491384892_n.jpg)
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Ok, the rest of you are in trouble. I have added an accessory to my rifle that virtually guarantees I will win.
Something so tactical, you can't even buy one (but mainly because I made it in my garage).
BEHOLD.......
THE TACTICAL BOLT KNOB!
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee412/alemonkey/DE4E2C75-A54F-4FA2-8171-E3803995B01A-6917-00000453566DA79D_zps53dcdcad.jpg)
Seriously, the factory bolt knob kind of sucked. It was hard to get hold of when it was flipped up next to the scope. Instead of buying a kit or paying someone to add one I cranked it out in about 30 minutes on my lathe. I didn't have any stock of the right size laying around so I turned it out of a grade 8 bolt (which has the machining properties of chewing gum, BTW). I'm pretty happy with how it turned out, and I didn't have to pay someone an arm and a leg to do it.
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In my never ending quest to find new toys....these look interesting:
https://www.accuracy1stdg.com/store/catDetail.cfm?catID=58 (https://www.accuracy1stdg.com/store/catDetail.cfm?catID=58)
Analog ballistic calculators customized to your gun & load. No batteries to run down, don't have to worry about them getting wet, etc.
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A big thanks to Run-N-Iron for becoming a match sponsor with their generous donation!!
Need some smithing done? Check out http://www.runniron.com/ (http://www.runniron.com/)
(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/6617/sqwa.jpg)
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There are still a couple spots left. If you know someone who may be interested, be sure to let them know.
http://www.mwts-training.com/SAPPRC
I also wanted to give a shout out to the sponsors thus far. We have a VERY nice prize table for a relatively small match. You have your choice of places to spend your hard earned dollars, but consider supporting those who support the shooting sports.
(http://www.mwts-training.com/_/rsrc/1369255790294/SAPPRC/Redding_logo278.jpg) (http://www.redding-reloading.com/)
($1000 sponsor)
(http://www.gunstop.com/Content/images/sinclair.jpg) (http://www.sinclairintl.com/)
($280 sponsor)
(http://www.mwts-training.com/_/rsrc/1375555343577/SAPPRC/Web%20simple%20Ad.jpg?height=191&width=400&height=152&width=320) (http://www.runniron.com/)
($200 sponsor)
(http://www.mwts-training.com/_/rsrc/1375731926257/SAPPRC/Sierra_Bullets_Logo.png?height=85&width=200) (http://www.sierrabullets.com/)
($150 sponsor)
(http://www.mwts-training.com/_/rsrc/1368071431541/SAPPRC/Coyote.png?height=90&width=200) (http://nebraskacoyote.com/)
($50 sponsor)
And, of course, myself and Centrolutions (http://www.centrolutions.com) will be throwing a bit into the pot :)
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Just bought the last of the targets (steel and otherwise) for this match today. The stars are aligning.
Our spotter (AKA my business partner on LASR) has to drop out since at least one of us needs to make it to a trade show that is going on that weekend.
Safety/Match Director: Your's Truly
Scorekeeper: ? (stand around with a clipboard, record scores, gets info on impacts from spotter)
Spotter: ? (watches the targets, calls impact)
Photographers: Got a couple lined up :)
Concessions: Completely optional, but if someone wants to throw a grill and a couple coolers in the back of their pickup, you are more than welcome. The proceeds MUST go to a 2A related organization (preferably the NFOA)
Any other help is more than welcome, and some of these jobs can double task if need be (if I REALLY needed to, I could do it all myself). Match admin and assistants do not need to bring anything, everything is provided, and no "special" skills are needed. This is a great opportunity for those who are curious but not ready to put their pride on the line :)
Even if you can't help out on match day, your assistance would be more than appreciated during setup.
Tenative schedule for match admin and assistants:
November 2nd and 3rd (ish): Recon/planning/initial setup. I don't really NEED help with this, but two (or more) heads are better than one. I have a fairly good plan for the stage and flow of the match, but I will want to do some last minute checks and augments to the plan after the corn is out and I can see the terrain again, and do some very initial setup and staging.
November 8th: Principle setup day. Actually setting up targets and other props. Checking ranges, LOS, SDZs, etc. A few extra hands would be nice.
November 9th: Alibi setup day. This day is to cover the things that I either forget about or run out of time for on the 8th. Also to prove the stages by actually running them, and doing a walk-through/rehearsal for all match admin. Last minute tweaks, you get the idea. Anyone helping out is welcome to shoot this day as well. !!The spotter and scorekeeper NEEDS to be there on this day!!!
November 10th: Zero Hour. See match admin list above.
Sorry, but if you are competing, you cannot be involved in match setup or admin.
Once you see the stages, you'll know why :)
If you are interested in helping out, please email john@mwts-training.com
Please don't PM me on here. That is, by far, the worst way to get ahold of me.
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Another package showed up today: Sierra Bullets is now a $150 dollar sponsor.
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Wow...it looks like you might have more sponsors than actual competitors. ;D
I really need to get back out again and get some new dope. I stuck a different scope on my rifle and since I went from a 1" tube to a 30mm my sight offset changed. I've only had a chance to take it out to 300 so far.
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Is that a hint ? ;D
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Maybe.....
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Still two spots open folks!
If ya'll could do me a favor and help get the word out, it would be much appreciated. If I can't get 12 spots filled, it will be hard to justify trying to make it a bigger event next year, and it will be difficult to attract and retain sponsors.
I attached the PDF flier, and the match details are available here: http://www.mwts-training.com/SAPPRC (http://www.mwts-training.com/SAPPRC)
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All match spots filled. Standby list signup is available on the match page and any cancellations or withdrawals will be filled from the standby list in a first-come-first-serve basis. I may decide to open up a couple of additional slots as well.
All registrations close on the 10th of October, period. If you payment is in, and I sent you a confirmation, you are in for sure. If you haven't gotten your match fee in by the 10th of October, I will issue you a warning email. If I get no response by the 15th, I will bump you for someone on the standby list.
I will also be ordering the shirts on the 15th of October, so if you are thinking about assisting with match setup and/or running, and would like a T-shirt, I'll need your info and payment by then.
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One last notice if you want to help out with this match!
I have what I NEED for help, but more is always better. I can provide transport from Lincoln for anyone wanting to help out. Don't forget, if you help out with match setup or admin, you have the chance to shoot the exact same courses of fire on rehearsal day.
Looking at you Koz... and Robert :)
Just need you on the 9th and 10th of November.
Email: john@mwts-training.com
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Yeah, What he said. Right now, one of the fellas helping is ME. Oh Lawdy do I need help. ;)
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Are you tearing down the day of the match? If so I can help then.
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Looking at you Koz... and Robert :)
Just need you on the 9th and 10th of November.
looks like i've been called out.... i gotta work the 9th, so that won't work. not sure of the 10th.
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Are you tearing down the day of the match? If so I can help then.
Depends on what time we finish up. If it is late and folks are tired (they most likely will be), I'll just leave it. In other words: probably not.
I'm looking forward to seeing everyone out there. If you want to just come out and watch, you are more than welcome. Check out the FB event page for driving directions and other info:
https://www.facebook.com/events/451622278260811/ (https://www.facebook.com/events/451622278260811/)
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Important info for Spectators!!
Driving Directions:
See attached map, or use these coordinates: 41.134032, -97.469428
(Sorry, the address does not work in Google maps, it will take you to the wrong end of the state)
We will only be at this location until ~10:00am, then we will be moving several miles south for the rest of the day's stages. If you wish to spectate, I recommend being there there no later than 9:00am. Nov 10th is the date, incase you forgot.
Rules for Spectators:
1. Follow all RO instructions
2. NO handling or carrying weapons or ammo without RO approval
3. You must have eye and hearing protection
4. You may assist shooters if you like (coaching, spotting), except on stages where it is not allowed. You are expected to follow the same technical/admin/safety rules as the competitors. This includes staying behind the firing lines.
Failure to follow these rules will result in you being asked to leave.
Additional suggestions:
-Bring a foldable chair
-Insect repellent/sunscreen
-Water/snacks
-There is some walking between stages. You will not be able to drive up to all stages.
-If you would like to help out, just let us know. I am sure we can find something for you to do
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Well, this should be interesting. I got my eyes lasered a week and a half ago and tonight I tried some dry firing for the first time. Either the quality of my scope has seriously degraded since the last time I looked through it or looking through magnification causes me to see double....hopefully it clears up before the match.
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Well, this should be interesting. I got my eyes lasered a week and a half ago and tonight I tried some dry firing for the first time. Either the quality of my scope has seriously degraded since the last time I looked through it or looking through magnification causes me to see double....hopefully it clears up before the match.
YAY!
Ahem. I mean: "Oh, so sorry to hear that."
;D
(Went to the range this evening, and actually FINALLY shot my rifle out to 550 yards. I can hit targets at that distance, as long as they are really huge. Think that'll be enough? )
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Important info for Spectators!!
Driving Directions:
See attached map, or use these coordinates: 41.134032, -97.469428
(Sorry, the address does not work in Google maps, it will take you to the wrong end of the state)
We will only be at this location until ~10:00am, then we will be moving several miles south for the rest of the day's stages. If you wish to spectate, I recommend being there there no later than 9:00am. Nov 10th is the date, incase you forgot.
Rules for Spectators:
1. Follow all RO instructions
2. NO handling or carrying weapons or ammo without RO approval
3. You must have eye and hearing protection
4. You may assist shooters if you like (coaching, spotting), except on stages where it is not allowed. You are expected to follow the same technical/admin/safety rules as the competitors. This includes staying behind the firing lines.
Failure to follow these rules will result in you being asked to leave.
Additional suggestions:
-Bring a foldable chair
-Insect repellent/sunscreen
-Water/snacks
-There is some walking between stages. You will not be able to drive up to all stages.
-If you would like to help out, just let us know. I am sure we can find something for you to do
Is there a beer cart that will come by regularly?
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What do you think this is, golf?
Golf courses are a waste of a perfectly good shooting range ;D
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What do you think this is, golf?
Golf courses are a waste of a perfectly good shooting range ;D
Hey, I resemble that wise crack :laugh:
I might be more accurate at 300yds with a driver than with a rifle. ;D
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I was out today setting up steel and whatnot...
Ya'll are gonna hate me :-X
Actually I think some of you will do (much) better than you think you will... especially if the current wind predictions hold...
(http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/3866/6e5r.png)
I might have to go make some targets smaller.... :laugh:
Is there a beer cart that will come by regularly?
Sigh... do I really have to add that to the list of rules? I would hope that one would fall under common sense... of course, I would think that muzzle awareness would as well.
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I was out today setting up steel and whatnot...
Ya'll are gonna hate me :-X
Actually I think some of you will do (much) better than you think you will... especially if the current wind predictions hold...
(http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/3866/6e5r.png)
I might have to go make some targets smaller.... :laugh:
Sigh... do I really have to add that to the list of rules? I would hope that one would fall under common sense... of course, I would think that muzzle awareness would as well.
Yes, yes. I'm down for making it a rule that a beer cart be present.
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Yes, yes. I'm down for making it a rule that a beer cart be present.
Not what I meant...
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I was out today setting up steel and whatnot...
Ya'll are gonna hate me :-X
Actually I think some of you will do (much) better than you think you will... especially if the current wind predictions hold...
No, I'm pretty sure I'm going to hate you.
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I really should have started loading ammo sooner since I'm out of town next week. Loading precision rifle ammo is a lot more time consuming than just slamming the press handle up and down for handgun or bulk .223 ammo.
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www.mwts-training.com/SAPPRC (http://www.mwts-training.com/SAPPRC)
Well, it happened (I figured there would be at least one)
A competitor has had last minute personal issues come up and he will not be able to make the match.
Here is the deal, it is getting too close to zero hour to mail the registration fee in. If you want to get into this match:
CALL me as soon as you see this (yes, even tonight), and have a debit/credit card ready. I can take your payment over the phone.
402-405-6251
If I do not answer, I will call you back shortly. Once your payment is in you will be emailed a receipt, and sent another email with driving directions and other details. If you have any questions about the match itself, please refer to the link above.
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www.mwts-training.com/SAPPRC (http://www.mwts-training.com/SAPPRC)
Well, it happened (I figured there would be at least one)
A competitor has had last minute personal issues come up and he will not be able to make the match.
Here is the deal, it is getting too close to zero hour to mail the registration fee in. If you want to get into this match:
CALL me as soon as you see this (yes, even tonight), and have a debit/credit card ready. I can take your payment over the phone.
402-405-6251
If I do not answer, I will call you back shortly. Once your payment is in you will be emailed a receipt, and sent another email with driving directions and other details. If you have any questions about the match itself, please refer to the link above.
Kozball should jump into this match! I mean, he'll give you a super long story about not having any dope, density altitude, barely broken in rifle, not being on paper at 100yds, etc. What the hell, jump in anyway and have a good time! ;-)
Or I could come out with my Mosin or Garand and shoot it
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Or I could come out with my Mosin or Garand and shoot it
DO IT!!!!
Seriously, I have a QD mount that I use to swap on a 10x scope and turn my multigun AR into a prairie dog gun. It has a 1:7 twist and shoots 75gr Hornady HPBT sub-MOA. If you want to borrow it let me know. The scope is sighted in for 55gr handloads right now but you'd want the heavy bullets for long range. You'd need a bipod, too. I only have one of those and it's on my .308.
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Open spot has been filled.
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Open spot has been filled.
(http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/funny/2/big-dancing-banana-smiley-emoticon.gif)
I'm stoked.
Got all my ammo loaded up.
My rear bag decided to break open and spill little plastic beans all over the basement so I have another one on the way.
I even bought a new backpack to haul all my crap. Now I just need to make sure the equipment between my ears is ready to go.
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(http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/funny/2/big-dancing-banana-smiley-emoticon.gif)
My rear bag decided to break open and spill little plastic beans all over the basement so I have another one on the way.
Hate it when that happens. What bag did you decide to go with?
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Actually just a fairly cheap one I found on eBay. Looks like it's pretty similar to the TAB gear bag. Same dimensions, comes prefilled with plastic beads. Just got it today and it seems well made. There were 5 or 6 different color and camo patterns available. Some guy in Florida makes them - he has a website but it's under construction.
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee412/alemonkey/E28F45C6-8EF7-487F-AE46-721CB1E32F15-3104-00000251595BD167_zps08dd410b.jpg)
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Hope everyone is ready for the wind!!
(https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1467222_718227338206074_2121887684_n.png)
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37 degrees with an 8mph wind.
I requested better weather than that.
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37 degrees with an 8mph wind.
I requested better weather than that.
Shouldn't be an issue with those "special handloads" cranking out at 3800fps... ;D
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I would rather not have my barrel go kaboom, thank you very much.
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Well, my eyes have pretty well recovered so I'm not seeing double through the scope anymore. It's still a little hard to focus on the reticle, so at least I still have that for an excuse. Strangely enough if I turn on the illumination on the reticle it's a little easier to focus.
Bonehead moment: I bought a scope level and went to install it last night, but realized that it won't fit between my scope and rail without removing the scope first. No time to rezero, so I temporarily stuck it there with some double sided tape and a couple tiny dabs of epoxy. It's ghetto, but it should hold for now.
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ya never know Brian. Last year my brother shot the Nebraska State SASS championship, after having metal from grinding removed the day before, and shot one of his better matches.
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Match setup and admin rehearsal complete, see you bright and early tomorrow!!
Last call for spectators
Find driving directions and other pertinent info:
https://www.facebook.com/events/451622278260811/?hc_location=stream (https://www.facebook.com/events/451622278260811/?hc_location=stream)
(https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1391895_719178941444247_744679076_n.jpg)
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Ya'll see them targets? Yeah me neither- Ya'll is NUTS!
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I'm not going to make it out tomorrow. Take lots of pictures!
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Match went great!! Some minor hiccups here and there, but that is to be expected. Now I know how to make it better next year.
Our very own bkoenig managed to be quite competitive, and was the ONLY person to max out a stage (Besides Pong, but that doesn't really count)
Score sheet attached.
Pics will be up in a few days, I really don't have time to sort through them at the moment. Now I have to play catchup with work and school.
Some pretty good shooters and very challenging stages. Thanks everyone who came out, the landowner, match admin, sponsors, and everyone else who helped make this happen. And if you missed this one, don't worry, SAPPRC 2014 is already being planned :)
(Oh, and we will be making some "tweaks" to the UKD stage for next year)
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Too bad I completely blew two other stages.
Great match, though, and the prize table was very generous.
Gotta get some new bottom metal and a detachable mag. That $&?@! Remington blind mag just doesn't want to feed right and REALLY slowed me down.
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Comments on the UKD stage:
One thing that doesn't surprise me actually is that the "hunter" did the best on the UKD stage (Lead Slinger award). Whether we are talking about "tactical" or hunting, for practical long range marksmanship, that stage was, by far, the most realistic. I'm not trying to dog the way other matches are run or other people practice, but smacking the same two or three KD targets over and over from slightly different positions does not really do anything for practical skills other than the fundamentals of marksmanship.
Yes, there were two targets meant to mess with your head:
B had no immediate backstop, thus no visible splash (if one were to look at the terrain, this was easily detectable)
C was small for its range (relative to all the other targets) and usually did not produce a splash (not intentional)
All the other ones were honest ~2MOA targets.
Several people may have done better if they had listened to my advice: Don't get stuck on one target, especially if you are not seeing a splash. Move on to the next.
Some people thought the time limit was short, and for a couple, more time may have helped, but for the majority of zeros on the score sheet, it would not have made any difference. There is also the fact that that it took almost three hours to get everyone through this stage as it is.
For next year (I don't want to give anything away) but I think we have some good ideas on how to make the UKD stage run faster, smoother, and be a bit more fun. Notice I did not use the word "easier."
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I have some photos from the match that are ready to be posted, but first, I need folks to send some love to our sponsors. Send em a message (Phone, email, FB, whatever) to thank them for supporting the Second Amendment Preservation Precision Rifle Challenge.
Redding Reloading Equipment
www.redding-reloading.com (http://www.redding-reloading.com)
Sinclair Int.
www.sinclairintl.com (http://www.sinclairintl.com)
American Reaper Arms
http://www.reaperarms.com/ (http://www.reaperarms.com/)
Run-N-Iron
www.runniron.com (http://www.runniron.com)
Sierra Bullets
www.sierrabullets.com (http://www.sierrabullets.com)
Nebraska's Best Coyote Calling Contest
www.nebraskacoyote.com (http://www.nebraskacoyote.com)
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First set of photos from the match. These include stages 1-3 of 6, and were taken by Dewees Design. More photos coming later.
Full photo album:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.682428785129677.1073741826.441902112515680&type=3 (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.682428785129677.1073741826.441902112515680&type=3)
(https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1453562_682434425129113_1859005811_n.jpg)
(https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1454545_682428798463009_837212568_n.jpg)
(https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1391768_682429498462939_19269464_n.jpg)
(https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/994968_682430781796144_829735285_n.jpg)
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More Photos:
Full Facebook Album:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.720778084617666.1073741829.115124001849747&type=3 (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.720778084617666.1073741829.115124001849747&type=3)
Top Shot
(https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1425685_720779171284224_1337417916_n.jpg)
Two Shooters Tied for Runner up
(https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1450882_720779241284217_948374786_n.jpg)
Runner Up
(https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1424383_720779214617553_785620357_n.jpg)
Lead Slinger (highest score on UKD)
(https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/1460010_720779261284215_547740393_n.jpg)
Tough Luck:
(https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1454686_720779284617546_287885471_n.jpg)
All Competitors:
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1441517_720779324617542_246654434_n.jpg)
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That was the coolest man cave I have ever seen.
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NFOA would like to thank the Promoter and sponsors and participants of the 1st Annual Second Amendment Preservation Precision Rifle Challenge for their generous donation of $650.00 to the NFOA