NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
Handguns, Rifles & Shotguns => Rifles => Topic started by: Wetzel402 on January 20, 2013, 12:28:28 AM
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Hi everyone,
I am a new member here and moved about three years ago from ND. I have been into guns for years and now want to try building my first AK in the near future.
I am hoping that anyone here with experience can give me some advice. :)
I would also like to eventually turn this thread into somewhat of a tutorial, adding pictures and information, and will reserve a few extra spaces for use. 8)
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reserved
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reserved again ;D
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Well welcome and Gl on that I cant afford to build an AK or an AR at this time
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Luckily I got a couple AK receivers so now I can wait for prices to stabilize before buying a parts kit.
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Do you have a barrel? IIRC barrels are not allowed to be imported with parts kits anymore so they're a little hard to come by.
I almost bought a complete PSL kit from Centerfire Systems a few years back when they were cheap(ish). I really kick myself for not doing that. I've come to the conclusion that with anything surplus or demilled you need to buy it while you can because either the supply will dry up or the price will skyrocket.
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Original barrel kits are pricey right now. There are always U.S. barrels
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Wetzel402,
Welcome to the list!
There are several ways to go about building depending on the kit used, receiver(bend from a blank or 100% premade) and how you are going to assemble. There are the required US made parts for compliance and which ones you are going to use. You will also need a few either home fabracated or premade tools to demil the kit and assemble. Then there is how and what you plan on using to apply a new coating for the rifle and deal with the wood, if any. Pleny to look at before you start for sure. Its fun and rewarding to do but these days you won't save a lot of money doing it. A few years ago you could but not anymore. I would be gald to help out if possible, just depends on how you go about it and if I am familiar with what you are looking at doing. I have included a pic of my first build from several years back. It was an $89 Romy G kit from Centerfire Systems. Total finished cost was about $200 not counting the tools I fabed to do the job and many hours of fussing about. These days the kit alone with barrel runs close to $400 most times.
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/GuzziRider/IMGA0030.jpg)
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/GuzziRider/IMGA0034.jpg)
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Nice Rifle Goose. I have a couple of G's myself. I agree you are not saving much in building yourself. Now days building yourself is for the fun or hobby of it.
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Do you have a barrel?
Not yet. I plan to wait for the gun grab to die down and prices to stabilize before I buy any more parts.
There are several ways to go about building depending on the kit used, receiver(bend from a blank or 100% premade) and how you are going to assemble. There are the required US made parts for compliance and which ones you are going to use. You will also need a few either home fabracated or premade tools to demil the kit and assemble. Then there is how and what you plan on using to apply a new coating for the rifle and deal with the wood, if any. Pleny to look at before you start for sure. Its fun and rewarding to do but these days you won't save a lot of money doing it. A few years ago you could but not anymore. I would be gald to help out if possible, just depends on how you go about it and if I am familiar with what you are looking at doing. I have included a pic of my first build from several years back. It was an $89 Romy G kit from Centerfire Systems. Total finished cost was about $200 not counting the tools I fabed to do the job and many hours of fussing about. These days the kit alone with barrel runs close to $400 most times.
I also agree. Very nice :)
I am not very familiar with the AK variants such as a Romy G. I currently own a Chinese Norinco and have had it for years but always wanted to try my hand at building a gun from a parts kit. I ordered some receivers before any bans can be put in place so that way I can, in theory, still build.
After doing a bit of research I am hoping to get my hands on a barrel installed kit to make things easier. Right now I am looking into strength characteristics of Cherry rivets. I may give them a go over the traditional solid rivets.
Now days building yourself is for the fun or hobby of it.
Right now with talks of gun bans building is actually cheaper but once the dust settles I'm sure it will be close to the same price. For me fun and challenge are definitely a big part of it.
Thanks for the encouragement everyone. I like this forum already :)
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It is not going to matter much about the dust settling. They are not importing anymore original barreled kits. So what is out there is it.
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It is not going to matter much about the dust settling. They are not importing anymore original barreled kits. So what is out there is it.
From what I gathered though kits are still being imported minus the barrel and then people are adding US barrels to the kits. Is that correct?
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Very few kits are showing up. And the kits that are tend to be not as nice as they use to. But like most things importing them is a long process.
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From what I gathered though kits are still being imported minus the barrel and then people are adding US barrels to the kits. Is that correct?
Yes it is. But as instag8er says the kits are not what they used to be. The kits with cut barrels can be done with replacement US made units but these are only basically contoured and not drilled and indexed for the gas blocks, front sight blocks, etc that have to be fitted and pined. Doable but adds an extra level of work to the project. As a side note I have read that some of the replacement units are not crome plated as well.
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As a side note I have read that some of the replacement units are not crome plated as well.
I have noticed that also.
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What is everyone's opinions regarding a screw build? I like the idea for maintenance reasons as well as easier tooling.
http://www.tapco.com/products/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=266 (http://www.tapco.com/products/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=266)
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Screw builds are a waste of time and ruins the kit. Besides making a **** rifle. Just send it off. And spend a few hundred bucks to have it built proper.
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Screw builds are a waste of time and ruins the kit. Besides making a **** rifle. Just send it off. And spend a few hundred bucks to have it built proper.
That's not exactly correct. It depends on how it is done, how well it is done and if nothing gets messed up along the way. I have a screw build Yugo underfolder that I would put up against any other AK out there for function and reliability. A properly riveted AK would be preferred but there is absolutely nothing wrong with a screw build done right.
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That's not exactly correct. It depends on how it is done, how well it is done and if nothing gets messed up along the way. I have a screw build Yugo underfolder that I would put up against any other AK out there for function and reliability. A properly riveted AK would be preferred but there is absolutely nothing wrong with a screw build done right.
I have also gathered that a screw build is easier for a first time build which to me is a bonus. I used to work in metal fabrication and am not worried about the durability. A little thread locker can go a long way. I am also liking the fact that it could be taken apart, if necessary, for modifications, maintenance, or to rivet it later.
From the research I have conducted thus far it appears that you drill and tap the trunnions. Is that correct?
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Correct, and that is the most critical step. Tapping them just right so the screw heads fit perfectly flush when tight is they key to a good screw build.
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Sounds good. When I finally get a parts kit I will probably have more questions ;D
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Back when, screw builds were a means of building with out having to press out the barrel pin and barrel from the front trunion in order to re-rivet it back into the new receiver. You then had to repress the barrel back into the trunion and reset the pin. A fair bit of work for sure. I am a bit of a purist and wanted my guns to be as original as possible. I made a rivet tool out of a set of bolt cutters for the front trunion and a rivet press jig for the rear one. As I have access to a 50 ton press the barrel and barrel pin press out was not an issue. The pins can be a hard go depending on the kit used.
If you get a kit with a cut barrel your going to have to press out the barrel stub and pin anyway and at that point would be able to do a rivet job. You will have to press the new barrel into the the trunion. Also you will have to set the headspace in the process of redrilling and pressing in the new barrel retaining pin.
I cant give an opinion on the screw build method as I have never done one or even shot one. Either way seems to have its challenges. Thats what makes it worth the time and bucks to me. Lot of satisfaction in shooting something you put together yourself. 8)
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I am definitely excited to try my hand at building my first parts kit rifle :) I think I will shoot for screws at first just because I already an equipped for it. I can always do rivets later if I decide to.
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I am definitely excited to try my hand at building my first parts kit rifle :) I think I will shoot for screws at first just because I already an equipped for it. I can always do rivets later if I decide to.
Not if the trunnion holes are enlarged from a screw build. And what maintenance do you think you need to do that disassembles the rifle that far? It is an AK, they are made to run even if never cleaned.
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Not if the trunnion holes are enlarged from a screw build. And what maintenance do you think you need to do that disassembles the rifle that far? It is an AK, they are made to run even if never cleaned.
I read a few accounts of people changing out their screws for rivets. Maybe they used over-sized ones?
I own an AK and know its durability. I once ran over 3000 rounds through it without a cleaning. I think lead lubricates AKs :laugh: I am thinking mainly for possible rear trunnion changes if I decide I want an under-folder later or a solid stock, etc.
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The receivers are different for fixed stock and underfolder
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The receivers are different for fixed stock and underfolder
Is it the receiver or the rivet holes? The info I found made it sound like the mounting points are different so drilling for an under folder would be different than drilling for a solid stock. In either case changing rear trunnions sounds very difficult or impossible.
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The receivers are different for fixed stock and underfolder
You can use a receiver from either to go the other way. You will need to replace the rear trunnion and drill two holes. It's not the prettiest conversion but then again I've never heard anyone refer to an AK as pretty. There are plenty of youtube videos on how to do the conversion.
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Here you can see the difference. http://www.nodakspud.com/page2.htm (http://www.nodakspud.com/page2.htm)
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I don't know Wet. Seems to me that you may want to go with the old school practice of starting out building with a complete Romy G kit and pre made NODAK NDS-1EZ rec. Its going to cost you some cash at present day prices but its the means to a successful build first time out. After your done you will have learned a lot and be ready to go for your next build with a far better idea of how you want to go. Just my opinion and not meant to tell you what to do. There is just so many ways to skin this cat and one needs to start somewhere to get a background to build on. Pun intended. ;D
It can become very addictive. :laugh:
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/GuzziRider/ThreeAKs005.jpg)
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Nice rifles. I would like to have one of those folder's.
I don't know Wet. Seems to me that you may want to go with the old school practice of starting out building with a complete Romy G kit and pre made NODAK NDS-1EZ rec. Its going to cost you some cash at present day prices but its the means to a successful build first time out. After your done you will have learned a lot and be ready to go for your next build with a far better idea of how you want to go. Just my opinion and not meant to tell you what to do. There is just so many ways to skin this cat and one needs to start somewhere to get a background to build on. Pun intended. ;D
It can become very addictive. :laugh:
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/GuzziRider/ThreeAKs005.jpg)
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Nice rifles. I would like to have one of those folder's.
I have to agree. Nice rifles :)
I don't know Wet. Seems to me that you may want to go with the old school practice of starting out building with a complete Romy G kit and pre made NODAK NDS-1EZ rec. Its going to cost you some cash at present day prices but its the means to a successful build first time out. After your done you will have learned a lot and be ready to go for your next build with a far better idea of how you want to go. Just my opinion and not meant to tell you what to do. There is just so many ways to skin this cat and one needs to start somewhere to get a background to build on. Pun intended. ;D
It can become very addictive. :laugh:
I already ordered some 80% receivers so I am going to give that route a shot. I do like the link though. They offer a lot of options and also give some good links to parts kit suppliers.
I would ideally like to get a parts kit with front sight, sight block, gas block, and front trunnion installed so it would eliminate a lot of work and make my first build easier.
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I already ordered some 80% receivers so I am going to give that route a shot. I do like the link though. They offer a lot of options and also give some good links to parts kit suppliers.
I would ideally like to get a parts kit with front sight, sight block, gas block, and front trunnion installed so it would eliminate a lot of work and make my first build easier.
With a little luck maybe the AWB won't go through and the kits with original barrels included will come down. Right now Romy G kits with factory barrels still included are going for between 3 and 5 hundred. I guess if you compare that to what ready built rifles are going for its about the same as back before the panic. Any way if you can pick one up the factory barrel would be a big leg up on the first build. You can follow the auctions on Gun Broker to see what kits are actually selling for to get an idea of what the market is doing on them. Asking price is one thing, sell price is something else. There are a lot of horded kits coming out of the closet right now.
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The kits on gunbroker that I watched so far have been going at inflated prices unfortunately. Hopefully the prices will level off some after the awb fails to go through.
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the lowest i have seen kits sell for is around $425 and that is not on gunbroker