NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
General Categories => Laws and Legislation => Topic started by: Range Mom on December 18, 2018, 01:17:42 PM
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The Justice Department has amended the regulations of the ATF to designate bump-stock-type devices as "machine guns".
New rule will be published this week and will take effect 90 days afterwards. Individuals will have 90 days to either turn them in to authorities or destroy them.
https://www.apnews.com/6c1af80fb290472c89fb930e223505af
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hold on now... before you dump your bump stocks.... there will be lawsuits. just wait.
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It's a wasted attempt at trying to prevent bump fire. This is purely a political move since few people realize that it doesn't promote safety. But, too many stupid/uninformed people around to realize that.
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The danger in this is the precedent set. The ATF should not be allowed to rewrite the law defining machine guns to include a trigger technique that still requires the trigger to be pulled once per shot, which does not meet the stautory definition of a machine gun.
If the rule stands, there is nothing to prevent future abuse to include semi auto fire in the same manner using a rule change.
I strongly support efforts to over turn this ruling in the courts and am donating to GOA and SAF today.
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From what I have read/seen. The GOA, FICG, Adam Kraut and arfcom's Nolo have or will file lawsuits.
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https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bethbaumann/2018/12/18/three-progun-groups-file-a-lawsuit-over-the-bump-stock-ban-heres-what-you-need-to-know-n2537738
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Although I don't see the value in the devices, I agree that this seems to be a rather big attempt to give the Anti-2A something so they will give somewhere. Only problem is they don't want to give anywhere and it is all or nothing with them.
This is a bad idea and I am really hoping this goes all the way to the top. Hopefully the Supreme Court will be able to settle this... again.
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https://www.gunowners.org/feinstein-fumes-as-goa-formally-files-bump-stock-suit.htm
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https://www.gunowners.org/feinstein-fumes-as-goa-formally-files-bump-stock-suit.htm
Not unexpected, but good to read. I should really send them some money in support.
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Copy of complaint filed by Nolocontendere of AR15.com in lawsuit against ATF and DOJ
https://www.scribd.com/document/396418931/Filed-Bumpstock-Complaint-Redacted
If you don't know, Nolocontendere is a top notch attorney and AR15.com member who is waging a very successful campaign to roll back infringement of the 2nd Amendment and is funded directly by donations and fund raisers held by LaRue Tactical.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Nolo-David-Codrea-s-Bump-stock-case-has-been-filed/5-2179175/
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https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bethbaumann/2018/12/29/whoa-gun-grabber-dianne-feinstein-admits-theres-issues-with-the-bump-stock-ban-n2538231
I have some issues with this article. But, as long as the Senate honors their Constitutional oath, legislation is a long way off. So, don't destroy your bump stock yet. They should repeal the Hughes Amendment, also, but I'm not going to hold my breath on that one.
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I've renewed my GOA membership and gave a small donation. I haven't seen anything that would indicate that the NRA has thrown its weight behind it. Is the NFOA planning on financial support for the GOA in this endeavor? But I did read an article that indicated that the NRA's strategy was to squash proposed legislation so that it would get regulatory action which the article claimed that it would be easier to challenge the regulatory action. If so, if the regulatory action is defeated, the ball would probably, and quite likely, end up back in Congress for legislative action - most likely in the House. This issue could drag on for a few years. But, who knows?
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I've renewed my GOA membership and gave a small donation. I haven't seen anything that would indicate that the NRA has thrown its weight behind it. Is the NFOA planning on financial support for the GOA in this endeavor? But I did read an article that indicated that the NRA's strategy was to squash proposed legislation so that it would get regulatory action which the article claimed that it would be easier to challenge the regulatory action. If so, if the regulatory action is defeated, the ball would probably, and quite likely, end up back in Congress for legislative action - most likely in the House. This issue could drag on for a few years. But, who knows?
Good question. I will add it to our agenda for the next Board Meeting. An important note to add, supporting GOA's efforts would be something pursued only with the support/direction of membership
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Good question. I will add it to our agenda for the next Board Meeting. An important note to add, supporting GOA's efforts would be something pursued only with the support/direction of membership
I'd be all for supporting any organization that's actively opposing gun control. Unfortunately, and as a life member it pains me to say this, that doesn't include the NRA anymore.
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My 2 cents, while I like the idea of supporting the GOA’s efforts and encourage everyone to individually do so I do not think the NFOA should as an organization be financially involved. The NFOA is an affiliate of the Citizens Committee to Keep and Bear Arms, which we provide no financial support to. Also the SAF has partnered with the NFOA and completely financially backed cases with us, with the NFOA not covering any of those costs (but encouraging member support for both of these organizations).
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U.S. 10th Circuit has Halted the Bump Stock Ban
https://gatdaily.com/u-s-10th-circuit-has-halted-the-bump-stock-ban/
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U.S. 10th Circuit has Halted the Bump Stock Ban
It delays having to destroy them for a few more days but let's hope that the ban gets overturned. What really needs to get overturned is the NFA along with the GCA and the Hughes Amendment as well as useless laws like GFSZA and other GFZ laws. Way too many laws regulating guns.
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Stay only applies to the one person in the case.
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I'm no legal expert but I would imagine that bump stocks aren't illegal while there are still lawsuits pending. So, I wouldn't think that anyone has to destroy their bump stock until all court challenges have been exhausted. Of course, I could be wrong. But if the ban is overturned then a lot of owners are going to be angry that they destroyed something that cost them a substantial amount of money. Whatever happens, we need to keep pushing back against laws that punish the law abiding over the actions of so few.
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As of now ... ONLY the petitioner has the "stay" applied. This was filed yesterday on behalf of those not covered. Obviously would need to be heard today by 23:59 to take effect. Make sure to read his link to their appeal. .Gov has NOT agreed to a blanket "stay" as you will note in reading.
https://waronguns.blogspot.com/2019/03/request-to-modify-bump-stock-stay-filed.html?fbclid=IwAR0h2Fw1tcSH2uJ8WeZmUYrHIoTx3Lf_NkJfvIZxkZGvkFPAId3bVUzLass
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Kinda weird that this impacts only 1 bump stock owner. https://bearingarms.com/tom-k/2019/03/25/utah-man-will-get-keep-bump-stock-now/
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The DC Appellate Court ruled about 2 hours ago that the "stay" will ONLY apply to the original Complaintants. So there you go .... destroy'em if you got'em.
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So there you go .... destroy'em if you got'em.
Or, keep them locked up and hidden away in the hopes that the government realizes its inanity (though I wouldn't hold your breath).
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Looks like we'll have to practice bump firing with our belt loop. That'll probably get us reported also. Stupid laws that don't solve anything.
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I agree with the last 2 paragraphs of this article: https://bearingarms.com/tom-k/2019/03/27/scotus-rejects-bid-block-bump-stock-ban/
Even if the ban is overturned there isn't going to be many people that will run out a spend hundreds of dollars for another one after just losing hundreds of dollars - maybe lost a lot more if they bought more than 1.
Definitely can't trust liberals or RINO's. Sad that we have politicians that claim that they're pro-2A when they're not. Even Reagan infringed.
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Stupid laws that don't solve anything.
I would argue there isn't a single "gun law" that solves one iota.
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The DC Appellate Court ruled about 2 hours ago that the "stay" will ONLY apply to the original Complaintants. So there you go .... destroy'em if you got'em.
Done. I wasn't happy about destroying mine but I'd rather destroy a $200 item than risk prison time over this nonsense ATF rewriting of the law. I had considered keeping it because it's unlikely the ATF would've found out that I had one and because it's possible that the rewrite of the regulation could still be overturned. If everyone complied with the current ATF regulation then why bother pursuing overturning the regulation? No one's going to go out a buy another one if the regulation is overturned. Oh well, what other infringements is the government going to do? And why didn't the NRA aggressively challenge this regulation? Since the NRA didn't challenge this and the Hughes Amendment I have to assume that the NRA isn't the civil liberties defender that they claim to be. And the NRA seems to be OK with red flag laws. The NRA seems to be OK with certain infringements.
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https://www.foxnews.com/politics/sup...un-bump-stocks
"The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations,"
I don't know why everyone (almost), including the NRA, continues to make a distinction between "weapons of war" and semi-autos instead of coming out and saying that the 2A doesn't distinguish between any firearm. We have too many emotional responses to firearms and not enough knowledge and patriotism to prevent infringement on the 2A. It should be pointed out that this article states that there were 12 rifles equipped with bump stocks but no statement that any were used in the attack. And so what if he had bump stocks? This murderer was rich enough to have bought pre-1986 machine guns if bump stocks didn't exist anyway! I guess I'm beating a dead horse.
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https://www.foxnews.com/politics/sup...un-bump-stocks
"The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations,"
The NRA has been harassing me to renew for a couple of months. I have finally decided that I am not going to bother. Besides their willingness to accept certain infringements, all they seem interested in is selling me wine and insurance. I'm sure they are the source of the constant political spam that finds its way to my inbox as well. There are other pro 2a folks more worthy of your money, IMHO.
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https://bearingarms.com/tom-k/2019/04/08/supreme-court-rejects-bump-stock-bid/
SCOTUS still refuses to issue a stay even though there are still challenges making their way through the court system. Not much hope for an overturn but it's still possible. I somewhat care about following this process because it sets a precedent for any existing or future rate increasing devices even though, like bumpstocks, they don't meet the original/true definition of a machine gun. All it takes is just ONE person and it ruins things for rest of us. I don't know about you guys/gals but I'm tired of so few people causing our rights to be eroded because politicians cave to public emotions rather than following the Constitution. And then we have to challenge these infringements in court which takes money and probably years just to get a court hearing. If I was a one-issue voter I wouldn't vote for anyone that infringes on the 2A.
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The NRA has been harassing me to renew for a couple of months. I have finally decided that I am not going to bother. Besides their willingness to accept certain infringements, all they seem interested in is selling me wine and insurance. I'm sure they are the source of the constant political spam that finds its way to my inbox as well. There are other pro 2a folks more worthy of your money, IMHO.
They called me to offer renewal and were VERY determined to get my money even though I was quite clear that I was HIGHLY disappointed in how they represent firearms owners in my state. The telemarketer really didn't care and really wasn't getting that I wasn't going to give them that much money for them to spend elsewhere.
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They called me to offer renewal and were VERY determined to get my money even though I was quite clear that I was HIGHLY disappointed in how they represent firearms owners in my state. The telemarketer really didn't care and really wasn't getting that I wasn't going to give them that much money for them to spend elsewhere.
I just got a call asking me for a donation. I told them until the NRA stops supporting things like the bump stock ban and red flag laws, I wasn't going to send them any money. Then I just hung up. Never give a telemarketer a chance to respond, they are trained and conditioned to provide a "rebuttal" to every no. I know, I wasted 5 months working for one back in the 90's. Probably my least favorite job ever.
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I just got a call asking me for a donation. I told them until the NRA stops supporting things like the bump stock ban and red flag laws, I wasn't going to send them any money. Then I just hung up. Never give a telemarketer a chance to respond, they are trained and conditioned to provide a "rebuttal" to every no. I know, I wasted 5 months working for one back in the 90's. Probably my least favorite job ever.
I got an e-mail reply from NRA-ILA stating that they are opposed to all red flag laws but if legislators move forward with them that the NRA is expecting that they include stiff penalties for false accusations. I never did get a response to my complaint about the then proposed bump stock ban from the NRA.
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https://gatdaily.com/bump-stocks-back/
On September 4th the United States Court of Appeals, 10th Circuit, reopened the Bump Stock ban. More specifically they reopened whether or not the ATF, Attorney General, and DoJ could just declare that bump stocks were machine guns.
https://www.ca10.uscourts.gov/opinions/19/19-4036.pdf