NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
General Categories => Shooting Sports => Topic started by: JTH on September 26, 2013, 02:39:47 PM
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...but I won't be there. :(
The last ENPS Steel Challenge match of 2013 is coming up in a couple of weeks---Oct 20th.
You think you are a good shot? Your draw is nice and fast? Are you quite the pistolero? Well, be honest with yourself and find out for certain, if your ego can take it. Come and participate in the Steel Challenge match. No movement (unless we are doing Outer Limits, in which you move laterally toward your strong side about 6 feet), no reloading on the clock---all you do is draw and hit five targets each time.
Can you perform the technical skills that that are fundamental to self-defense with a firearm? Draw and hit your target at speed?
Come and find out! Registration starts at 7:15am (as does setup), registration closes at 7:40, shooter's meeting at 9am, with shooting starting right afterward. 6 stages, 150 rounds if you are perfect, all for only $15. (If you are a SC member, make sure to let us know your member number, as we do send these results in to the national headquarters.)
I can't be there as I'll be at a shooting match in Tulsa. So you won't be able to show you are better than me this time, sorry. On the other hand, you can't argue that I'm trying to set you up, either. :)
So come out and shoot! (It's a really fun time.)
(As a side comment, one of the things that I think is useful in competition is that people HAVE to let their egos go. Once you get thumped by someone else, you can no longer tell yourself "I'm really really good"--which means there is now actually some space for improvement. If you never test yourself against anything, then you can simply sit there, complacent, secure in the knowledge that you are "really good"--even if it isn't true. Compete, on the other hand---and you'll actually have to give up any illusions you might have. Maybe you really ARE that good. Or maybe, you'll find that indeed there IS still room for improvement. I know that I've found that there is a lot of room for improvement in my own skills. Evidence of that was seen in my last SC match, in which I averaged almost two missed shots for EVERY string of the match. BLEH!)
Don't make me call out people by name, here. ;D Get yourself to a match!
...for those people who just like to have fun shooting---you should come out, too. SC is a great time. Hearing that steel ring is a blast, and if you don't feel like drawing that many times, you can always bring a .22 pistol and shoot it that way. Or a .22 rifle!
For more information about SC matches in general, take a look at the post stickied to the top of the Shooting Sports forum. http://nebraskafirearms.org/forum/index.php/topic,6854.0.html (http://nebraskafirearms.org/forum/index.php/topic,6854.0.html)
(We still need to break 80 people for an SC match. We've come close, but we haven't quite made it. C'mon, this is the last one this year!)
Edited to fix a typo. I hate looking back at a post that is weeks old, and seeing a typo that makes me look like an idiot.
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...but I won't be there.
Disregard...I will be gone that weekend. :'(
Fly
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Disregard...I will be gone that weekend. :'(
I'm unhappy to miss the match, also. At least in my case, I'll be shooting another match instead, so that's not quite so bad.
I have missed two of the five SC matches this year, though. Barely got the "minimum three to count for yearly stats" in. (And I've missed enough Multigun that I think I need to make at LEAST one of the ones in November, if not both.)
[sigh] I wish I was rich. I'd go to every Area match in the nation, plus the SC Nats, PLUS fly back for all the local matches. :)
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I REALLY want to go....
But I'm getting my eyes lasered that weekend.
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I won't miss this one. My company is leaving that morning. Since relatives and dead fish start to stink after 3 days, I'll say my farewells Saturday and shoot. Now, Glock or Smithie 22A or 10-22, such tough choices :-[
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Now, Glock or Smithie 22A or 10-22, such tough choices :-[
Have you shot centerfire yet? If not---shoot centerfire. Do it right, drawing from the holster and everything. Have a blast really working an actual carry/duty gun.
If you have shot centerfire before---then pick whichever one jumps into your mind first as "the most fun to try for THIS match".
:)
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Finally, I think I can make it to this one.
How late do these typically go?
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Finally, I think I can make it to this one.
How late do these typically go?
Normally you'll be completely finished, with the stages all put away, by 2pm. (Possibly even earlier.)
Get your total score under 100 seconds and you'll probably be in the running for top five in centerfire. :)
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I'd be down if its not "gamer" driven. Last shoot I went to (Sioux City Iowa), everybody came to play the game. Hardly anybody brought what they carry daily...a lot of long slide Glocks and holsters designed for speed. Only 2 or 3 of us actually drew from true concealment, and we got murdered on time. I would have had more fun with the 2 or 3 people that actually came to develop skills, but we were in different relays and never had much time to talk.
How many people usually show up? Any women shoot? My wife would definitely shoot if she wasn't the only woman and didn't feel intimidated.
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I'd be down if its not "gamer" driven.
Well it is a game. This is not SD, combat, or LEO oriented. It is a sport where you analyze the course, make a plan, and then see what happens after the timer beeps. It is strictly for fun.
I suppose an IDPA match would be slightly more oriented towards your goals. However, and this is just my opinion, those matches are just a game too, albeit with different set of rules. After all, what real defensive/offensive training would give you the course layout (walls, no shoots, targets, etc.) so you can get your plan of action put together before you begin.
So what you will find at all the ENGC matches are a lot of people of varying abilities, all having a great time and enjoying each others camaraderie.
ETA: I'm not trying to discourage you. Everyone out at these matches are friendly and very welcoming. I'm just trying to be honest about what you can realistically expect.
Fly
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I'd be down if its not "gamer" driven. Last shoot I went to (Sioux City Iowa), everybody came to play the game. Hardly anybody brought what they carry daily...a lot of long slide Glocks and holsters designed for speed. Only 2 or 3 of us actually drew from true concealment, and we got murdered on time. I would have had more fun with the 2 or 3 people that actually came to develop skills, but we were in different relays and never had much time to talk.
How many people usually show up? Any women shoot? My wife would definitely shoot if she wasn't the only woman and didn't feel intimidated.
Of course it's a game, just like any other competition.
Concealment holsters, sadly, are not allowed. Neither are thigh or cross draw rigs.
Women do shoot it regularly.
So come on down and have a good time, after all, it's just a game. :D
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I'd be down if its not "gamer" driven. Last shoot I went to (Sioux City Iowa), everybody came to play the game. Hardly anybody brought what they carry daily...a lot of long slide Glocks and holsters designed for speed. Only 2 or 3 of us actually drew from true concealment, and we got murdered on time. I would have had more fun with the 2 or 3 people that actually came to develop skills, but we were in different relays and never had much time to talk.
I think---that you must be talking about a different kind of match. As has been mentioned, Steel Challenge doesn't allow you to draw from concealment, so if it was a SC match, someone was really ignoring the rules.
If it was a USPSA match---well, that one isn't about concealment either. There is a division for folks shooting stock guns (and I shot a G17 in that division for a number of years), but the other divisions don't. Which makes sense, because it is a game, and those people are playing the game because they enjoy the sport.
In addition, they too were developing skills--just not the ones you wanted to develop. I'm betting that plenty of the people there indeed tested a number of aspects of their shooting skills. (I'll note that I personally don't find shooting matches to be good places to develop skills, but instead test skills.)
If it was an IDPA match, then it still wouldn't surprise me if people used guns and methods of carry that they wouldn't actually use in real life---because IDPA is also a game with rules and more importantly, with winners and losers. As such, people playing the game want to win, and changes in equipment will make a substantial difference to that. (That's one of the reasons I roll my eyes every time someone says "IDPA is practicing for reality! None of that gamer stuff!" ---as they walk around with a G34 in a range holster on their hip covered by a stiffened IDPA shoot-me-first vest that they never wear outside of a match or practice.)
Truthfully, developing shooting skill is something that won't really happen in matches---that occurs in practice on your own. (IMO) However, using matches to test aspects of your shooting skills (not all aspects by any means---realistic self-defense tactics, for example, don't get tested) does indeed work---and the game makes it fun.
But it certainly isn't meant to be realistic for self-defense practice (no, not IDPA either). I note that I'm not even allowed to participate in IDPA using my preferred method of carry (can't use appendix IWB in IDPA).
So---matches are supposed to test certain aspects of shooting skills, and to be fun. Those aspects may not be what you are interested in, however.
How many people usually show up? Any women shoot? My wife would definitely shoot if she wasn't the only woman and didn't feel intimidated.
Shooter turnout: We've averaged 61.5 shooters per SC match this year, with a high of 79, and a low of 46 (that was in January). So, plenty of people come out and shoot. We still start at 9am, and still get done by 2pm even with 6 stages, though.
We get men, women, and children of all types and skill levels to come out and shoot. Pretty much everyone has a good time. Best level of preparation would be making sure you read the two stickied posts at the top of this forum regarding Match Safety and Introduction to Steel Challenge, and perhaps watching some of the videos of Steel Challenge that are available on YouTube.
Match Safety: http://nebraskafirearms.org/forum/index.php/topic,7025.0.html (http://nebraskafirearms.org/forum/index.php/topic,7025.0.html)
Intro to Steel Challenge: http://nebraskafirearms.org/forum/index.php/topic,6854.0.html (http://nebraskafirearms.org/forum/index.php/topic,6854.0.html)
Various Shooters at a 2009 match: ENPS November Steel Match, Various Shooters... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkfUq0fApkk#)
Right after ENGC bought an official SC steel set: ENPS Bought Official Steel Challenge Equipment! (November 2010 Match) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXsawvc8lgg#)
Some video of the difference between good runs and bad runs from the same person: August 2012 ENPS Steel Challenge Match... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5dVmdaNbIQ#ws)
Steel Challenge is a good fun time. The people who win tend to be the ones that can go one-shot-for-one-hit on the steel, at speed. It is a great way to test your accuracy and speed under at least a little bit of stress. Can't shoot it from concealment, however.
ETA:
Just looked up Sioux City, and I see there is a club there that holds "Steel Challenge" matches. However, judging from their stage setups and such, they do it a bit differently than we do.
At ENGC, we run 6 of the 8 official SC stages, and we are an official Steel Challenge-affiliated club, so we go strictly by the official SC rules. 5 steel per stage, one the stop plate, 5 strings per stage, etc. So, a little different than the Hawkeye Rifle and Pistol Club. Nothing against how they do it---just making sure people know that we use the official SCSA rule set.
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I was under the impression that steel challenge was a spinoff of idpa...just easier to implement on a small range. Also cheaper and easier to run than a full idpa course. When I looked into it further I see my assumption was way off.
Still sounds like fun and I may give it a try. At least I would know ahead of what I was getting into????
still good training to practice a nice smooth draw, with accurate shooting, and fast follow up.
Didn't mean to step on anybodys toes here, or insult anybodys game. I just thought most steel shoots were geared towards practical/ccw shooting.
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Get your total score under 100 seconds and you'll probably be in the running for top five in centerfire. :)
Ha, I'm just gonna try not to be in the bottom five ;)
Looks like I can make it for this one (finally, I've only been trying to get to a SC match for the past year)
Suppose they won't like my safariland :( Guess I'll be running the bladetech.
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I was under the impression that steel challenge was a spinoff of idpa...just easier to implement on a small range. Also cheaper and easier to run than a full idpa course. When I looked into it further I see my assumption was way off.
Still sounds like fun and I may give it a try. At least I would know ahead of what I was getting into????
still good training to practice a nice smooth draw, with accurate shooting, and fast follow up.
Didn't mean to step on anybodys toes here, or insult anybodys game. I just thought most steel shoots were geared towards practical/ccw shooting.
Oh, don't worry, no one got insulted. Maybe a little worried that you were going into it with some expectations that weren't going to work out, though....
As you've found out, Steel Challenge is completely separate from IDPA---really, no relation at all. SC is all about speed and accuracy, that's it. No reloads, no stage planning, no "tactics" of any sort (least of all defensive tactics)---just how fast can you get the gun out, and how fast can you can hits on target.
Very straightforward---and often quite an eye-opener for people.
Here is a link to some stats data I run showing the top times from the 2010 and 2011 SC Nationals.
http://precisionresponse.4t.com/Downloads/SCNatsScores.pdf (http://precisionresponse.4t.com/Downloads/SCNatsScores.pdf)
To compare to that, here are some of the best stage times from our top centerfire shooters locally. (There is a big difference there between National level and the local scores---and the local times are from the people who WIN locally, not just an average of the local scores. Plus, these are some of the best scores ever locally , not merely one set of scores from a match---and we STILL aren't very close to the average of the top five shooters nationally.)
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5489/9986296606_a5c90e9120_o.gif)
(I'll note if you want to shoot steel, but in addition have to move, reload, and do it under time pressure, we have a Pro-Am match tomorrow, which is always a good time....)
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Suppose they won't like my safariland :( Guess I'll be running the bladetech.
Why wouldn't the safariland work? Is it a thigh rig? Retention holsters are fine, as long as they aren't thigh rigs.
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Why wouldn't the safariland work? Is it a thigh rig? Retention holsters are fine, as long as they aren't thigh rigs.
Most folks would look at it and say it is a thigh rig. In reality, the holster is just a low-hanging belt with a leg "stabilization" strap. I ain't to worried about it.
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There are several of us ladies who shoot these matches regularly. Bring your wife! One thing about the guys (and ladies) who shoot the ENPS matches at ENGC -- they do NOT make women feel intimidated. We all want more shooters, and we love having more ladies shoot. I LOVE being a female shooter at our matches in this "male dominated" environment - all the guys treat us with respect and are usually going out of their way to be kind, helpful, etc.
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There are several of us ladies who shoot these matches regularly. Bring your wife! One thing about the guys (and ladies) who shoot the ENPS matches at ENGC -- they do NOT make women feel intimidated. We all want more shooters, and we love having more ladies shoot. I LOVE being a female shooter at our matches in this "male dominated" environment - all the guys treat us with respect and are usually going out of their way to be kind, helpful, etc.
That's what I've been telling my wife. Lots of women shoot these matches.
and usually beat me
That's one nice thing about shooting sports, especially handgun shooting. Physical strength isn't nearly as much of a factor as other sports. Skill is MUCH more important.
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I'd offer this to anyone whose wife is hesitant to come out: Contact me personally and I'll make sure you are on a squad with other females. If you don't feel comfortable enough shooting to shoot a match, contact me and I'll take you to the range to help you GET comfortable. This is an offer from ME - not from our shooting classes. While I think everyone should take all of our classes, I understand the discomfort of being a new female shooter. I'd gladly spend a couple of hours with any female to help her get more comfortable so that she can join us for the matches! :)
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I believe the SC rulebook limits each squad to only one redhead each. So bear that in mind if your wife is a redhead.
(http://rosiepiter.com/clipart_illustrations/red_headed_female_devil_0071-0908-2510-3802_SMU.jpg)
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I believe the SC rulebook limits each squad to only one redhead each. So bear that in mind if your wife is a redhead.
(http://rosiepiter.com/clipart_illustrations/red_headed_female_devil_0071-0908-2510-3802_SMU.jpg)
Mine's a fake redhead. So she's only half crazy.
;D
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Mine's a fake redhead. So she's only half crazy.
;D
Mine has red highlights. They function as a warning beacon.
She's not so bad though. I get to buy guns n' bullets w/o too much hassle. :)
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Mine has red highlights. They function as a warning beacon.
She's not so bad though. I get to buy guns n' bullets w/o too much hassle. :)
In my case, it means that if I get a new gun, she has to be able to get one also.
The reverse doesn't seem to be true, unfortunately---there have been a couple of cases in which she got a new gun, but I didn't. :(
And when she moved to Limited-10 (and now to Open) suddenly we need more reloading done, and new components, etc....
[sigh]
Yes, my wife shoots a bigger gun than I do. And it holds more bullets. And costs WAAAAAAYYYYYY more.
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The reverse doesn't seem to be true, unfortunately---there have been a couple of cases in which she got a new gun, but I didn't. :(
And when she moved to Limited-10 (and now to Open) suddenly we need more reloading done, and new components, etc....
[sigh]
Yes, my wife shoots a bigger gun than I do. And it holds more bullets. And costs WAAAAAAYYYYYY more.
I don't see a problem with any of this! :P :kiss:
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In my case, it means that if I get a new gun, she has to be able to get one also.
The reverse doesn't seem to be true, unfortunately---there have been a couple of cases in which she got a new gun, but I didn't. :(
And when she moved to Limited-10 (and now to Open) suddenly we need more reloading done, and new components, etc....
[sigh]
Yes, my wife shoots a bigger gun than I do. And it holds more bullets. And costs WAAAAAAYYYYYY more.
Another victim of women's Lib. This is so sad to witness. :(
:)
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(https://scontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1390536_635241136516543_296659322_n.jpg)
;D
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I'd offer this to anyone whose wife is hesitant to come out: Contact me personally and I'll make sure you are on a squad with other females. If you don't feel comfortable enough shooting to shoot a match, contact me and I'll take you to the range to help you GET comfortable. This is an offer from ME - not from our shooting classes. While I think everyone should take all of our classes, I understand the discomfort of being a new female shooter. I'd gladly spend a couple of hours with any female to help her get more comfortable so that she can join us for the matches! :)
I think that is an excellent offer.
In my opinion, I think men like to compete more than women. In golf ( yes, I futilely chase a little white ball around green grass regularly) men will outnumber women in tournaments, like here.
My wife started shooting with me this year, (hooray!) but says she has no interest or intention to shoot in competition :'(
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Men also can't help poor on the machismo bravado when they are around women. I was crewed with a new hire female pilot a few years ago. I watched throughout the week as male pilots from our company came up and reverted to their teen years with all sorts of sophomoric comments.
Fly
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My wife started shooting with me this year, (hooray!) but says she has no interest or intention to shoot in competition :'(
Ah, but has she shot a steel challenge match yet? Because competition or not, it is FUN to shoot steel! :)
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My wife started shooting with me this year, (hooray!) but says she has no interest or intention to shoot in competition :'(
I said that several years ago, too. ;) I started at the Rock your Glock matches in Lincoln and realized that competitions are fun. I TRY not to "compete" with anyone other than myself, but it is good have a way to measure improvement (sort of). Also, I found that after a couple of years of target shooting, standing still while shooting at pieces of paper got boring. Give her time, she may come around.
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Also, I found that after a couple of years of target shooting, standing still while shooting at pieces of paper got boring.
I KNOW...RIGHT?! Running, shooting, reloading. How could it get any better than that? It's as good as that thing the wife and I used to do. At least as far as I can remember.
Fly
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Yea, I'm so NOT responding to that one! :)
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I KNOW...RIGHT?! Running, shooting, reloading. How could it get any better than that? It's as good as that thing the wife and I used to do. At least as far as I can remember.
Fly
You mean staying up past 10:00? Right?
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You mean staying up past 10:00? Right?
Of course. Only a potty mind would think otherwise.
Fly
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I KNOW...RIGHT?! Running, shooting, reloading. How could it get any better than that? It's as good as that thing the wife and I used to do. At least as far as I can remember.
Please Mr Fly, let's not go there :D
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Are spectators pretty welcome? Id like to try this next year but I want to come watch one first to get an idea of whats going on.
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Are spectators pretty welcome? Id like to try this next year but I want to come watch one first to get an idea of whats going on.
The matches are open to the public, come on down and watch. It's a lot of fun. Be sure to bring your eye and hearing protection :D
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Are spectators pretty welcome? Id like to try this next year but I want to come watch one first to get an idea of whats going on.
Of course, but it is more fun to shoot. If you got the gear try it.
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Definitely don't hesitate to give it a try. The ENPS people are super helpful to new shooters. Just let them know this is your first time.
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Well I was able to post my best times, and obliterate my average time, for each of the stages shot at this match, so I must be doing something right. Competing against myself I did well. :laugh:
Anyways, that is the main reason I like SC, the stages are constant. And it is a challenge and always a learning experience, there are some really good shooters out there.