NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
General Categories => Carry Issues => Topic started by: ragedefined on January 11, 2014, 04:40:29 PM
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I am a huge open carry supporter.....huge.... so if you don't like open carry go ahead and ignore this ;).
I was very hurt and disappointed today at cabelas lavista location. Me and two of my brothers who had never open carried before decided they would give it a try with a shotgun and an ak47. Very proud of them for rising above what others think and exercising their rights.
I open carry pretty much every day, beretta. My brothers dawned an ak47 and a shotgun. We were pretty much approached by the gun guys at the front telling us we need to check them in. When we told them we were open carrying today and that we weren't going to unsling or unholster unless need be. We were allowed through. About 30 seconds later one of the gun guys caught up with us and brought an older man who started telling us what we could and could not do by law. He was very misinformed about what he was saying. We asked for upper management and they told us since people were telling employees that we were carrying and since the managers were getting told about It; we then had to leave. I of course told them laws and we went back and forth asking why I can open carry a pistol but not a rifle? I understand people might be concerned but we were acting completely normal. I asked management if they had told their staff that what we were doing was legal, so they could inform the un informed public. disappointed we couldn't open carry today, I will be calling corporate Monday to find out exactly what store policy is. I cry hypocrisy.
open carry outside cabelas event? I will be calling sarpy county to see what the city ordinances are on tailgating on city parking lots. Maybe open carry bbq? ;)
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don't they have a sign on the door that all firearms must be in a case coming in?
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Not to my knowledge; but with you saying that. If you are entering cabelas intending to sell a weapon then yes. Pistol rifle whatever.
If you want to open carry at cabelas, pistol, then you just tell the gun guys at the front that your weapon is staying holstered. Sarpy county has no law against open carry, no permit required. So I thought we would try it with a rifle and shotty, didn't go as I had hoped.
If you want to open carry a pistol though, you are good to go openly. No permit, sarpy county. Don't even need a ccw permit.
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As one of the longer term members of NFOA and having donated significant monies to the NFOA I will encourage my fellow members to NOT support your suggestion (no offense). I FULLY support OC, but IMHO the way you went about it was poor judgment particularly in this business that 1) has STRONGLY supported us and 2) is a business who has a right to set their policies as they see fit.
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There is open carry, and there is disturbing the peace carry. You walking around quietly, and discretely, with a sidearm, is a different set of factors, than two guys walking around with long guns.
What you did, did not do anything to advance carry at any level. I could go on, but why bother. My 2 cents, certain body parts do not need displayed in shopping malls, and the same goes for guns.
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FWIW I am a HUGE proponent of open carry when done properly.
Cabela's DOES have indeed signage saying all guns must be cased, except for concealed carry. THIS is not an open carry issue. Any business can tell you not to open carry in their establishment. You DO NOT have the RIGHT to carry in their store, regardless of Nebraska being an open carry state. It is NOT public property and they can tell you to case them or leave, period. Argue with them and you might be having a very unpleasant conversation with the La Vista PD or SCSO. Clearly you are the one that needs to gain a better understanding of the law. Nothing hurts our cause more than this special kind of stupidity.
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They do have it posted at the doors that all firearms must be cased/checked, but lawfully concealed weapons are allowed.
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yes they can obviously tell us to leave, which we did. As far as how we did it, im fine with how I did it. wouldn't change a thing. thanks. Its private property and they can deny us from entry with an open carried weapon. I have open carried my handgun their close to 20 times with no issue. Thought we would try our hand at the publics and staffs response of rifle open carry. didn't go as planned that is all and I can be disappointed about that. Other thing I personally don't care who opposes me or anyone from open carrying a rifle, shotgun, handgun. It is a gun no matter what shape or caliber and if it is legal to carry it then be my guest. the people fear rifles because the media has taught them to. Its not the gun its the people. I really thought id get a different response from you guys.
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THIS
I asked management if they had told their staff that what we were doing was legal, so they could inform the un informed public
AND THIS
I of course told them laws and we went back and forth asking why I can open carry a pistol but not a rifle?
The law doesn't matter in THEIR building. What you were doing was ANYTHING but legal the split second between them telling you that you were not allowed to do it and you starting to argue with them.
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yeah because in those wonderful quotes you pulled I said the words "argued" "yelled" "screamed" "flipped them off" "cursed" "got in their face". Yeah used all those in the quotes there.
you weren't there you wouldn't know. interesting you assume that I was arguing with them about what I can and cannot do. Merely asked why I could open carry a pistol in their establishment and not a rifle.
Funny thing is they actually said they supported me in what I was doing but because of the position they were in at cabelas they had to ask us to leave.
I was asking clarification, that is all.
As far as my "special stupidity" you judge by an unemotional paragraph I quickly typed up using very simple examples and not going into deep specifics. Round of applause for you 00buck.
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Well don't expect warm and fuzzies from me when reckless actions like this taint the good work that so many do here every day. It starts with not even noticing the signs on the doors "Not to my knowledge", to stating law to them that has zero bearing on the situation, to not thinking about what those actions do to our efforts. I can guarantee that nobody at Cabela's (employee or customer) that witnessed that thinks better of guns or gun owners because of it. And that, sir, is what this organization is about.
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I wasn't using law to try and make them let me stay there with the long guns. I was merely asking them why I can carry my pistol but not a rifle in their establishment. THEY LET ME OPEN CARRY MY PISTOL I find it weird they wouldn't allow a rifle if they let me open my carry my pistol.
I apologize that I did not see the precious sign at the front door. I actually go to management and ask them personally. I also call the corporations that create the rules for the stores before I go there.
Open carry pistol is okay, so why wouldn't a rifle? didn't know I had to be specific on what weapon was going to be open carried. I don't want any fuzzy hugs or high fives no worries.
as far who I impacted... i corrected the guy at the front checking guns in to what was and wasn't legal. We also had a guy from nfoa who was at the gun counter telling us, in front of the managers, to keep doing what we were doing. Again you're just a big assumer. ask for specifics next time before thinking that your way is the best, get off your high horse.
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Just what were you expecting? Were you purposely setting out to get a reaction? What would make you think that walking around a bunch of people with long guns would impress them? Just how does this negligent type of action help our cause? How does carrying shotguns and semi-automatic guns in a crowded sporting goods store make it look like you are protecting yourself from bad guys?
What you have done is get legal gun owners labeled as gun nuts or crazy people. I personally don't care for that label and try to avoid it as much as possible.
The members of this forum work tirelessly to fight for our rights in Nebraska, actions like this could take minutes to erase the years of effort they have given. Not that long ago, Cabela's did not allow concealed carry. Who do you think got them to open up that far? I can tell you this, it wasn't a couple guys walking around with long guns.
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The reason why people find open carry of a long arm in an urban or shopping area to be pointless, tasteless and a "poseur" act - in the old French sense of the term - is best summed up the late, great "gunners' guru" Col. Jeff Cooper. Cooper pointed out that a handgun is a defensive weapon; one that you have with you "in case" you get into a fight. A long arm, he said, is an offensive weapon; one that you have with you when "you expect" to be getting into a fight. To carry around a weapon as a prop (presumably no fight was anticipated today at Cabela's - therefore it was a prop) is gaudy and disrespectful of something as wonderful as a fine weapon. This is not a modern, sissified point of view. I grew up in a time when we all had shotguns in our (unlocked) vehicles in the school parking lot because we'd hunt on the way home, and nobody thought anything of it. Shotguns and rifles were just tools of the trade for farmers and ranchers and were in the back of every pickup window in town. But even then, you'd have been a weirdo to walk around the farm store or CO-OP with one over your shoulder.
It's also strategically unsound because, for the many Nebraskans who are concealed carry permit holders, a person coming into an urban retail area with a long arm is exactly what they are looking out for. Hopefully they are all smart enough to not go into what Cooper called Condition Red, but it would seem to fit his definition of Condition Orange. To quote him directly....
Orange: Specific alert. Something is not quite right and has your attention. Your radar has picked up a specific alert. You shift your primary focus to determine if there is a threat (but you do not drop your six). Your mindset shifts to "I may have to shoot that person today", focusing on the specific target which has caused the escalation in alert status. In Condition Orange, you set a mental trigger: "If that person does "X", I will need to stop them". Your pistol usually remains holstered in this state.
Thus, to intentionally cause people to be in Condition Orange to make some sort of fashion statement is also juvenile.
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Did you happen to see by chance if they had any 22LR in stock when you were there!?
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Well said, Feral and Dave and others.
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Did you happen to see by chance if they had any 22LR in stock when you were there!?
A++......
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In the end, these individuals attempted to exercise a right they have, and unfortunately have been fully chastised by the very people who fight to do the same thing conceptually.
I applaud them, but also encourage them to find another venue to practice at.
I am a bit saddened by the responses here as the attitude towards this is not different than the attitude against conceal carry, and even firearms in general. Once we start saying we can carry one firearm and not another, you might as well be able to ban a gun based on how it looks (AKA "black" rifles").
Just saying..
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I wish I had read this post before defending the OC in the Members Thread. OC with the owner's consent/knowledge should be ok, but the long guns thing was a stunt. A stunt being defined by me as something stupid a reasonable person would not do to draw attention. Be thankful the folks at Cabelas didn't offer you the opportunity to spend thousands of dollars presenting your legal arguments in a criminal trespass case with your freedom being the wager.
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Nobody here is against the right to carry any gun openly. It does need to be done in a way to not alarm the masses, otherwise they will not accept it as a right and will take it more as a threat. Open carry rallies and positive open productions would do more good where it is known to the people that someone carrying guns is a planned event and the reason for it is known to the public. It wouldn't matter if they were carrying a pocket 380 or a bazooka as long as it isn't in a place that is a threat to the public. They need to be shown that it is a normal thing rather than just to get attention.
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Got it. Dont exercise a right until others are comfortable with it. Thanks for clearing that.
I'm not comfortable with conceal carry, please dont it ok?
Nobody here is against the right to carry any gun openly. It does need to be done in a way to not alarm the masses, otherwise they will not accept it as a right and will take it more as a threat. Open carry rallies and positive open productions would do more good where it is known to the people that someone carrying guns is a planned event and the reason for it is known to the public. It wouldn't matter if they were carrying a pocket 380 or a bazooka as long as it isn't in a place that is a threat to the public. They need to be shown that it is a normal thing rather than just to get attention.
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Skipping the flame bait for a moment -
Cabela's does have it posted that firearms are to be cased when entering (except for concealed carry). If I'm not mistaken, it's the HUGE brass plaque that's hard to miss ? It might be a large sign on the door, not sure. I know I see the sign every time I walk into the store. And if you have a problem with the way the business does things - you're welcome to not shop there rather than trying to force your views upon them. It's their property, not yours.
If you want to check out holsters with your firearm, it'll need to be cased and they'll gladly have someone baby sit you / escort you around while you try out the holsters.
Regarding the OC vs not and how to go about it - there is a lot to be said for tact, dignity, and respect (i suppose an umbrella term would be 'attitude'). Being aggressive with management on the spot isn't going to help your case.
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Got it. Dont exercise a right until others are comfortable with it. Thanks for clearing that.
I'm not comfortable with conceal carry, please dont it ok?
It's not about catering to the lowest common denominator's comfort level because, of course, the lowest common denominator will be a gun-fearing hoplophobe. It's about understanding that the constitutional rights we're passionate about are not just some random laws but rather they are - we believe - God-given human rights for specific reasons. When people end up on the news carrying a long arm in a mall "jus becuz I can" it cheapens and dumbs down the purpose of that right.
I think I've mentioned here before that I've had the opportunity to spend some years working in developing countries where the "rights" are whatever the current military dictator feels like granting on that particular day. I've had many a friend dragged out of his home at night by the president's goons and beaten to a pulp for being an independent journalist or lawyer fighting for freedoms we take for granted. A couple were murdered. THAT sort of thing is why we have the right to posses long arms; not just because we want to make a statement at the mall. We have them because the only thing more terrible than letting people have the power to kill with the press of a trigger is NOT letting them have that power. So, that power and constitutional right are things that we must treat with the utmost respect and reverence.
That's why "I'm doing it because I can" is an undignified and ignorant reason to do something. If that's all the thought we - the politically-minded gun owners - put into a God-given right, then less intelligent people certainly aren't going to put any more thought into it, and will be inclined to vote in ways that infringe the right.
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It's not about catering to the lowest common denominator's comfort level because, of course, the lowest common denominator will be a gun-fearing hoplophobe. It's about understanding that the constitutional rights we're passionate about are not just some random laws but rather they are - we believe - God-given human rights for specific reasons. When people end up on the news carrying a long arm in a mall "jus becuz I can" it cheapens and dumbs down the purpose of that right.
I think I've mentioned here before that I've had the opportunity to spend some years working in developing countries where the "rights" are whatever the current military dictator feels like granting on that particular day. I've had many a friend dragged out of his home at night by the president's goons and beaten to a pulp for being an independent journalist or lawyer fighting for freedoms we take for granted. A couple were murdered. THAT sort of thing is why we have the right to posses long arms; not just because we want to make a statement at the mall. We have them because the only thing more terrible than letting people have the power to kill with the press of a trigger is NOT letting them have that power. So, that power and constitutional right are things that we must treat with the utmost respect and reverence.
That's why "I'm doing it because I can" is an undignified and ignorant reason to do something. If that's all the thought we - the politically-minded gun owners - put into a God-given right, then less intelligent people certainly aren't going to put any more thought into it, and will be inclined to vote in ways that infringe the right.
This, my friends, is the post of the year.
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Sorry to say but with recent events, if I'm in a public place and I see an uncased rifle, the first thought through my mind will be "TROUBLE!!!". I'm going to Orange and getting out of there if possible.
I'm not waiting around to see if it's a maniac or a merely an ardent 2A guy carrying it. Better safe than sorry.
And if I, an ardent 2A supporter feel that way, imagine how the sheep feel.
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Did you happen to see by chance if they had any 22LR in stock when you were there!?
Well??????
While I do believe in Total Firearm Rights, unfortunately OC is a touchy subject (as obvious here) and must be approached in a careful manner. Politely leaving when asked and not letting the situation proceed to the point the police are called is the best outcome you could have had this time.
I will however, go on record as saying I DO NOT wish to hold any sort of "protest" on Cabela's grounds. The NFOA has worked in the past to establish a "partnership" with Nebraska based corporations and that effort is to be renewed. An event like that would hurt the effort immensely.
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How can we work with people like the original poster in a way that doesn't send them running? He'll probably never come back here. I think taking Long arms to Cabela's was an unsophisticated approach to a sophisticated issue. Perhaps if we could give people like this the knowledge necessary to make more informed decisions, we'd solve many future problems?
He's clearly motivated enough to take action. We should have helped him figure out how to get a higher return on the investment he's willing to make.
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I am interested in hearing more ideas, but we have to be careful not to burn any bridges, we need all the help we can get.
I have contemplated more OC myself, but the sad fect is we have to be selective and careful in that approach.
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How can we work with people like the original poster in a way that doesn't send them running? He'll probably never come back here. I think taking Long arms to Cabela's was an unsophisticated approach to a sophisticated issue. Perhaps if we could give people like this the knowledge necessary to make more informed decisions, we'd solve many future problems?
He's clearly motivated enough to take action. We should have helped him figure out how to get a higher return on the investment he's willing to make.
I agree with this.
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The anti-gun sentiments we fight every day are the simple result of fear. People fearing what they don't understand.
When a pro-gun individual walks into a crowded store with an AK-47 on his shoulder, he is doing absolutely nothing to help those people understand. He is simply creating more fear.
If the OP and other ardent OC supporters want to truly help the cause of gun rights in this country, the best thing they can do is find two or three of the most anti-gun people they know (at work, in their families, in their neighborhood, etc.) and offer to take them to the range. Show them that firearms do not need to be feared when they're in the hands of responsible citizens. There are tens of millions of responsible gun owners in this country. If every one of us took the time/effort to let ignorant anti-gunners get to know us...those tens of millions could become hundreds of millions. I've personally changed the views of several people I've known. Its not easy, and it requires you to step out of your comfort zone a bit. But in the end it truly helps our cause.
It seems that today, too many gun owners have taken the "I don't give a s*** what other people think. This is my right." approach. Unfortunately, the bottom line is that simply demonstrating a right is NOT the best way to preserve it. Its a lazy approach, and it does not work. OC in California is a prime example.
The reality is that the mass media works 24/7 to fuel irrational fears in ignorant people. When you OC in a crowded business, you are only helping to fuel that irrational fear. It furthers the liberal narrative that gun owners are just crazies who think they're living in the Wild West. The best way to preserve these rights is to get to know people, and tell them your story.
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I don't want to step into this debate, but wanted to respond to one comment about Nebraska.
A lot of people view Nebraska as very conservative. That's true in many ways. Politically, in the legislature today, that is not so true. I have heard from several legislators that we have the most liberal legislature we have ever had. Just something to think about, as what we see everyday going about business is not necessarily a reflection of our legislators.
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He's clearly motivated enough to take action. We should have helped him figure out how to get a higher return on the investment he's willing to make.
Agreed! +++
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How can we work with people like the original poster in a way that doesn't send them running? He'll probably never come back here. I think taking Long arms to Cabela's was an unsophisticated approach to a sophisticated issue. Perhaps if we could give people like this the knowledge necessary to make more informed decisions, we'd solve many future problems?
He's clearly motivated enough to take action. We should have helped him figure out how to get a higher return on the investment he's willing to make.
Well said.
I read the original post and, while I wouldn't OC long guns myself, my first thought was 'there's a guy willing to further the cause.' That's the kind of enthusiasm we need in the membership. I think he's gotten the point that there aren't too many supporters of his actions.
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Here's my question to the OP: Were the long guns loaded?
(There's a reason for this question. I would like to know the answer before I comment, though.)
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Here's my question to the OP: Were the long guns loaded?
(There's a reason for this question. I would like to know the answer before I comment, though.)
That's...
Well. From a bystander that's rather impossible to tell.
As far as the OP -- I hope he's stuck around, but I believe he might be of the persuasion that had a lot of megaphone/mic time during last year's 2A State Capital Marches that spoke a lot on conspiracy theories and similar. I'm not going to speak to the stuff espoused by them, but these folks tend to be abrasive usually :(. It makes their views difficult to get across due to the attitude that comes with it.
As far as any kind of protest or organized thing outside of Cabelas ? That's downright political suicide.
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That's...
Well. From a bystander that's rather impossible to tell.
True. But not my point. It has to do with the carriers, actually. As such, I'm rather hoping the OP is going to answer, because it is actually an important question.
No, it has nothing to do with how people are going to react to the situation, or anything like that. But it will tell me something important about the people who were carrying, so I'd like to know. And once I know, I'll say why I'm so curious. :)
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yes they can obviously tell us to leave, which we did. As far as how we did it, im fine with how I did it. wouldn't change a thing. thanks. Its private property and they can deny us from entry with an open carried weapon. I have open carried my handgun their close to 20 times with no issue. Thought we would try our hand at the publics and staffs response of rifle open carry. didn't go as planned that is all and I can be disappointed about that. Other thing I personally don't care who opposes me or anyone from open carrying a rifle, shotgun, handgun. It is a gun no matter what shape or caliber and if it is legal to carry it then be my guest. the people fear rifles because the media has taught them to. Its not the gun its the people. I really thought id get a different response from you guys.
If you'd Stop and take a minute to just think about it!.
You'd understand exactly why they don't want or allow Open carry of at least of Long guns in side their store.
They Buy, Sell and have Consignment Used Long Guns.
They sit for the most part unattended in a Rack on the floor open for public inspection.
True they are cabled but you might have a way to cut or remove that cable.
It's a Shoplifting / loss prevention Measure....
As their employees have no way of knowing your not trying to steal any long gun your carring around.
Their Hand guns are all inside display cases and you have to get someone to assist you if you want to handle them so those are attended at all times they are not directly under their control and locked away in side some sort of display case.
This is the Point where you have a "Homer Simson" type moment and have to smack yourself in the head and go---- Doh!
As i see it....it's not about a case of Responsable open carry anyways that just doesn't even apply in this case.
Cabela's seems to attempt to meet everyones needs best they can by allowing at least concealed carry in their stores......But in this case it's their needs not your needs being met
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I couldn't believe the negative reaction I got when open carrying. After all, I had all the DD stamps I needed for the explosives I wired onto my vest, and yet everyone looked at me like I was crazy. I don't get it.
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jthhapkido - I don't think he's coming back, but I really want to hear what you think! Perhaps you could just give us both sides - if it was vs. if it wasn't loaded. The anticipation is killing me!
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i second that!
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I couldn't believe the negative reaction I got when open carrying. After all, I had all the DD stamps I needed for the explosives I wired onto my vest, and yet everyone looked at me like I was crazy. I don't get it.
I really hope this isn't a version of the anti-gunners attack along the lines of "What, does the 2nd Amendment give you the right to have nukes, bazookas, and to roll up in your Panzer!?"
We haven't even gotten a full description of events and how conversations went. No cops were called. No panic was incited. No negative evening news story was run. Yet people on here assumed that he just started running around dress in a trenchcoat and tactical vest scaring the bejesus out of folks. Do I agree with his approach, not necessarily, but I think people need facts before they lash out and burn bridges with people who are obviously enthusiastic of about 2A rights and are willing to take action. Sure there action is controversial, as we see here, but let's not jump to irrational conclusions and remarks like those whom we fight against in other battles.
I too would like to know JTH's analysis, he always breaks things down and comes to conclusions based on good logic... and then backs that up.
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the loaded unloaded quesiton has more to do with the intent
if he took his long gun in there unloaded than it was simply for show and provided to personal defense ability, other than it becomes and awkward blunt object.
This, serves no point.
I support open carry, however I don't always want people to know I have my sidearm, so I conceal carry. I would encourage people to go take the conceal carry class and get the permit because people look at those numbers to see how many gun owners do it, if you open carry in la vista what impact are you really making? I'd be majority households in La Vista has a firearm
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Simply put, Cabela's is private property. They have a policy related to unconcealed firearms that is legally enforceable on that property. By entering their property, you agree to abide by that policy. If you enter their store and flagrantly violate their policy, you should expect to be treated in a way similar to how you have treated them - with disrespect.
My rights end where yours begin ... or better stated, the OP and his friends' rights ended where Cabela's rights began. It is both ironic and unfortunate that an individual seeking respect for his own rights violates the rights of others.
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I really hope this isn't a version of the anti-gunners attack along the lines of "What, does the 2nd Amendment give you the right to have nukes, bazookas, and to roll up in your Panzer!?"
We haven't even gotten a full description of events and how conversations went. No cops were called. No panic was incited. No negative evening news story was run. Yet people on here assumed that he just started running around dress in a trenchcoat and tactical vest scaring the bejesus out of folks. Do I agree with his approach, not necessarily, but I think people need facts before they lash out and burn bridges with people who are obviously enthusiastic of about 2A rights and are willing to take action. Sure there action is controversial, as we see here, but let's not jump to irrational conclusions and remarks like those whom we fight against in other battles.
I too would like to know JTH's analysis, he always breaks things down and comes to conclusions based on good logic... and then backs that up.
No, I didn't intend to make a slippery-slope argument. Rather, I was going to the extreme situation to show that open carrying can create a lot of different responses. I would imagine we all fall on a spectrum somewhere.
For example, I likely wouldn't think twice of a person open carrying a holstered pistol. Have that guy carrying an AK in a place of business and I would probably steer clear of him.
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Simply put, Cabela's is private property. They have a policy related to unconcealed firearms that is legally enforceable on that property. By entering their property, you agree to abide by that policy. If you enter their store and flagrantly violate their policy, you should expect to be treated in a way similar to how you have treated them - with disrespect.
My rights end where yours begin ... or better stated, the OP and his friends' rights ended where Cabela's rights began. It is both ironic and unfortunate that an individual seeking respect for his own rights violates the rights of others.
/thread
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Simply put, Cabela's is private property. They have a policy related to unconcealed firearms that is legally enforceable on that property. By entering their property, you agree to abide by that policy. If you enter their store and flagrantly violate their policy, you should expect to be treated in a way similar to how you have treated them - with disrespect.
My rights end where yours begin ... or better stated, the OP and his friends' rights ended where Cabela's rights began. It is both ironic and unfortunate that an individual seeking respect for his own rights violates the rights of others.
+1
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Interesting that OP has gone silent..... True story or Troll? Hmmmmm
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I carry for protection. I carry concealed because I prefer to not have everybody know I am packing. I don't have any problem with open carry but my personal danger signal would be sounding loudly if I saw someone toting a rifle or shotgun.
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Interesting that OP has gone silent..... True story or Troll? Hmmmmm
I'm sure, as he stated earlier in this thread before, that he was quite surprised by the whiplash response to this post. He's a self admitted huge open carrier supporter and was sure that he would find more like minded folks here. Instead , he got a bunch of people hounding him about things that they didn't know anything about. People filled in the blanks with worst case scenarios and he didn't like the "jump to conclusion" negativity. I'm not saying that I agree with his approach and I 100% agree with Cabela's and their right to have store policies that work for them. They have my full support, both ideologically and financially.
I'm a new member, been here for 7 months and started donating right away and continually since. I know the position he is in with a lot of enthusiasm but not sure of the direction that he should take and I'm sure there are a lot more members like him. I'm also new to the forum world as I've never really been exposed to forum decorum and have learned as I go. The thing with the internet is that you can find yourself on the wrong side of an argument in a hurry with battle lines shifting quickly and no way to explain yourself because you have 30 typing witty comebacks and retorts that you aren't even prepared for. I guess I'm cautioning people out there to take a step back and maybe let one guy do the explaining on what seems like an organizational consensus on the does and don'ts of 2A advocacy.
To refresh everyone's memory, this is how this member was exposed to the NFOA
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New Members / Re: Welcome ragedefined
« on: November 17, 2013, 04:24:32 PM »
my table at chills today was gifted a dessert from someone who saw me open carrying. i approached him just before he left, we talked a little gun talk and he asked if i was a member of nfoa. told him i would check it out and thats the first thing i did when i got home.
Im a HUGE open carrier. i have my open carry permit for omaha and i also have my conceal carry permit.
the member that directed me to your site was NENick
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Carry Issues / Re: Open Carrier at Chilis - 84th st.
« on: November 17, 2013, 04:17:24 PM »
Took your advice and joined nfoa lol. thanks again for the dessert! my family was really taken back by your actions today. I can't thank you enough for supporting my passion. your small but very large actions today opened a few more eyes to our passion. Names Nick by the way, looks like you too lol. keep in contact!
So gestures like this are now meaningless because of a number of different factors that lead to burned bridges. It's not all our fault but it's not all his either... again, do I agree with him, no, but I can understand him being disappointed with relaying back his experience and instead of what he expected as a receptive audience, he got ridiculed and shamed.
I still really enjoy the NFOA and will be searching for avenues myself to get more involved, but I feel like at this point we could do more to help and guide the member for advocating and advancing our 2A right.
With respect,
AWick
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So gestures like this are now meaningless because of a number of different factors that lead to burned bridges.
With respect,
AWick
I'm not sure that I would agree that such gestures are meaningless. Just because you disagree with someone doesn't mean you dislike them ... or that you shouldn't reach out to them. I can disapprove of someone's actions without hating them or even disliking them. Moreover, if someone is unwilling to accept criticism of their actions, posting about them on a public forum is unwise. A mature individual will take such criticisms with a grain of salt, do a bit of soul-searching to decide whether or not there is something to be learned from the criticism and carry on with their life. An immature individual will "take their ball and go home".
Finally, owning a gun (even legally) doesn't necessarily make you a good person nor does it always make you right. There are times (and I'm not saying this was or was not one of those times) when it is better to disassociate one's self with an individual even if you share some common beliefs.
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As you grow up we find that, just because you can do something doesn't mean you do it. This absolutely is a violation of Cabela's rules posted at the front door and does nothing but hurt our cause. GROW UP!
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I have no problem with open carry, as long as folks know they are likely to encounter issues in public. In this case, the OP came into the forum looking for a bunch of back slapping and high fiving. What he got was an earful for his stupid behavior and showmanship in a store that his clearly posted rules against just that sort of thing. What makes it worse is that Cabela's is a supporter of sportman and shooters in all varieties and didn't go soft like Dicks during the last bit of hysteria.
I don't think its the OC that got people upset (beyond the normal CC/OC debate) as much as the guy's lack of respect and "in your face" attitude toward a business that is supportive of shooters all over the country.
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I agree with Bucket. I have no problem with open carry. But I do have a problem with the way it was done. Cabela's is fine with concealed carry, but as someone else said they have plenty of long guns just sitting out on the rack, and the store has no way of knowing if that shotgun you're toting around is off that rack or is something you own. Ignoring their sign was extremely disrespectful.
Situations like this are what give open carry a bad name, just like the people who ruined open carry at Starbucks with their confrontational attitude. If you want to open carry and get the public used to seeing responsible gun owners bearing arms then be respectful about it. Anything else is counterproductive.
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While Cabela's policy should be respected I don't think that open carry of any firearms at this establishment would give open carry a bad name. After all ....IT'S A GUN STORE FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! People go in and out of there with guns. I don't think that Cabela's is worried about that aspect of it but rather what others have pointed out: lots of used guns on their racks for all to pick up and they wouldn't know the difference between someone carrying a rifle around the store or someone stealing their used rifles.
Ragedefined stated that he had open carried with his pistol on his hip in Cabelas on multiple occasions with no problems.
Here's an example of what I mean: I bought a used long gun from Cabelas (SKS) and they escorted me to the door with the rifle then handed it to me (without any package covering it). So here I am carrying an SKS without a sling across the parking lot in public.
Did anyone freak out? NO. Did anyone call the cops? NO
Did Cabelas think it a problem for me to open carry an unslinged rifle with my bare hands across their parking lot (obviously not since they put me in that position)
Having said that I think some of the posts on this topic had a very nasty tone towards ragedefined which were very unbecoming of our organization. Instead of tearing a new member down, resorting to name calling, and judging the situation with our own presumptions of the exchange with the store associate we could have offered constructive criticism, but he was chased away because the impression was given that he was not welcome in our organization........sigh
If some wonder why our organization is not growing faster, this could be one of the factors...
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Gun owners and gun groups, like the NRA, are under assault like never before. The anti-gun masses try to paint us all into a corner of irresponsibility and stupidity.
We must hold ourselves to a higher level, for every time we pick up a firearm, we are representing all gun owners. We can't afford too many black eyes.
What next, a group of guys exercising their open carry rights at the mall with AKs and shotguns? Legal, yes. SWAT Teams and helicopters, probably. Or maybe, taking your AR-15 to the bank to make a withdrawal? Legal, I think so. Making the front page of the paper, probably. I have been to several gun shows that were posted at the door, no guns with a picture of a handgun with a circle around it and a line through it. I didn't just throw up my hands and say it's a gun show, for crying out loud. No, I returned to my vehicle, and secured my Glock before entering, because I am not just representing myself, but all gun owners.
I personally don't have anything against open carry, but I am not willing to try a stunt that could jeopardize my gun rights or yours.
Carry on, carry safely, and carry smart!
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Gun owners and gun groups, like the NRA, are under assault like never before. The anti-gun masses try to paint us all into a corner of irresponsibility and stupidity.
We must hold ourselves to a higher level, for every time we pick up a firearm, we are representing all gun owners. We can't afford too many black eyes.
What next, a group of guys exercising their open carry rights at the mall with AKs and shotguns? Legal, yes. SWAT Teams and helicopters, probably. Or maybe, taking your AR-15 to the bank to make a withdrawal? Legal, I think so. Making the front page of the paper, probably. I have been to several gun shows that were posted at the door, no guns with a picture of a handgun with a circle around it and a line through it. I didn't just throw up my hands and say it's a gun show, for crying out loud. No, I returned to my vehicle, and secured my Glock before entering, because I am not just representing myself, but all gun owners.
I personally don't have anything against open carry, but I am not willing to try a stunt that could jeopardize my gun rights or yours.
Carry on, carry safely, and carry smart!
Good points.
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Some good points by farmerbob. Along with the rights and responsibilities of carrying, common sense needs to be there too. With the attacks from the liberal media and every Feinstein, Obama and Pelosi looking for any excuse to take our guns away we have to be smart when we choose to exercise our rights. Walking into Cabela's or any public place for that matter with a gun on your hip and two friends both carrying long guns over their shoulders is inviting what will most likely be a negative response. I do applaud the OP and his friends for wanting to exercise their rights and inform the public but timing is also important.
Speaking for myself if I had witnessed two individuals walking into Cabela's with a shotgun and an AK strapped on their back I would have went to orange immediately and probably contacted Cabela's staff if they hadn't already noticed.
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All the talk of folks getting nervous at Cabela's by open carry... I'll assume none of you have actually went over to the firearms section and seen what the customers do when handed a firearm ? *shivers*
>:D
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All the talk of folks getting nervous at Cabela's by open carry... I'll assume none of you have actually went over to the firearms section and seen what the customers do when handed a firearm ? *shivers*
>:D
i usually make a point to stay clear of that section if the store is even slightly busy for that very reason. same with Scheels.
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All the talk of folks getting nervous at Cabela's by open carry... I'll assume none of you have actually went over to the firearms section and seen what the customers do when handed a firearm ? *shivers*
>:D
My guess is that has something to do with why they prohibit open carry.
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My guess is that has something to do with why they prohibit open carry.
Cabela's allows open carry, as long as it stays in the holster. To many people try to fit holsters with an unchecked gun and that can lead to an accidental discharge where Cabela's may be held liable.
If you make people feel uncomfortable in a store then they will leave. Not good for business if people are uncomfortable shopping in your store. All I have to say.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYnT6mjSy84 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYnT6mjSy84)
It's a short bit in here...but an interesting perspective on OC of long guns.
I'm a huge OC supporter. I OC every day, handgun style...never wanted to carry a long gun or been comfortable doing it. But this guy did broaden my perspective on the issue.
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I am simply appalled by the majority of the responses on this thread. Then again it's not the first time I have seen name calling, rumor mongering and the like displayed by so called professional's of the cause.
I am a very big supporter of OC but do not agree with the OP's tactic employed. I also feel that as a group, there was a huge opportunity to react with class, tact and education. To bad that it went rather fast and furiously to the wayside.