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General Categories => Newsworthy => Topic started by: GreyGeek on January 28, 2014, 05:53:04 PM

Title: R.I.P 9mm bullet
Post by: GreyGeek on January 28, 2014, 05:53:04 PM
http://iaaforum.org/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=15421 (http://iaaforum.org/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=15421)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg94/DKconfiguration/Screenshot2014-01-25at103733AM_zps75166874.png)
Title: Re: R.I.P 9mm bullet
Post by: Chris C on January 28, 2014, 06:35:39 PM
Now those are killer bullets!  The new Black Talons.  :P

I'm interested to see what they cost...
Title: Re: R.I.P 9mm bullet
Post by: bkoenig on January 28, 2014, 06:47:17 PM
Gimmick.

I'll give them credit for an extremely effective marketing campaign, though.  I've been seeing these things everywhere.  They even have the anti's panties in a wad.
Title: Re: R.I.P 9mm bullet
Post by: JTH on January 28, 2014, 07:58:38 PM
Amazingly stupid bullet design, with a remarkable marketing campaign to appeal to tactical timmies who don't understand what happens in court.

That's IMO, and I may not have any idea what I'm talking about.
Title: Re: R.I.P 9mm bullet
Post by: SemperFiGuy on January 28, 2014, 09:10:55 PM
Well, there goes the Feed Ramp on my Kahr PM9!!!!

sfg
Title: Re: R.I.P 9mm bullet
Post by: Gary on January 28, 2014, 09:34:59 PM
Well, there goes the Feed Ramp on my Kahr PM9!!!!

sfg


Good point!
Title: Re: R.I.P 9mm bullet
Post by: RedDot on January 28, 2014, 09:59:04 PM
Amazingly stupid bullet design, with a remarkable marketing campaign to appeal to tactical timmies who don't understand what happens in court.

That's IMO, and I may not have any idea what I'm talking about.

What happens in court?  I mean, I can guess it's something along the lines of bullet type equating to pre-meditated intent to cause grievous injury, I've just never had anyone explain it so that it makes sense.   I had heard the Talons were banned for being "too lethal" but you're in fear for your life when you pull trigger, not slapping sense into someone acting out hysterically.  How can you say something is "too lethal"?  Sounds like "sorta pregnant"
 
Title: Re: R.I.P 9mm bullet
Post by: ILoveCats on January 28, 2014, 10:06:06 PM
I'm old-school and find "LSWCHP-GC" much cooler than "RIP".
Title: Re: R.I.P 9mm bullet
Post by: Necede on January 28, 2014, 10:22:33 PM
What would your thumb look like after loading a magazine or two of those.
Title: Re: R.I.P 9mm bullet
Post by: Randy on January 28, 2014, 10:52:30 PM
What would your thumb look like after loading a magazine or two of those.

You just may need welder gloves for this bullet.

News article on the new bullet at SHOT Show.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jan/28/georgia-maker-bills-new-bullet-one-shot-manstopper/ (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jan/28/georgia-maker-bills-new-bullet-one-shot-manstopper/)

http://youtu.be/skFhKtCo5aE (http://youtu.be/skFhKtCo5aE)
Title: Re: R.I.P 9mm bullet
Post by: barmandr on January 29, 2014, 12:54:14 AM
Now those are killer bullets!  The new Black Talons.  :P

I'm interested to see what they cost...
$300+ for a box of 20 on GB...I'll stick with gold dots.
Title: Re: R.I.P 9mm bullet
Post by: sidearm1 on January 29, 2014, 06:35:09 AM
Isn't that something just like the bullet designed by Jim Cirillo?  Back in early 2000 they were also known as pin grabbers.
Title: Re: R.I.P 9mm bullet
Post by: bkoenig on January 29, 2014, 07:33:40 AM
Isn't that something just like the bullet designed by Jim Cirillo?  Back in early 2000 they were also known as pin grabbers.

Pin shooting is one of the few things I could see this being good at.  Not exactly cost effective, though.
Title: Re: R.I.P 9mm bullet
Post by: GreyGeek on January 29, 2014, 10:53:28 AM
Supposedly they won't go through the vests that Police wear.   But, in watching the video of them in action it looks somewhat similar to being hit by six pellets and a slug from a small shotgun.  I wouldn't want to be hit by one  of those.  I'd imagine they'd give ER physicians a hard time cleaning up the damage before the patient expired.
Title: Re: R.I.P 9mm bullet
Post by: landon410 on January 29, 2014, 11:08:24 AM
my cousin posted this on facebook last week, I commented that you better keep polishing your feed ramp because I don't see how those points are going to want to cycle
Title: Re: R.I.P 9mm bullet
Post by: sparky on January 29, 2014, 12:02:53 PM
It looks to me like once it hits your feed ramp it would smash a couple of those talons or whatever you want to call them. 
Title: Re: R.I.P 9mm bullet
Post by: bkoenig on January 29, 2014, 12:17:00 PM
Supposedly they won't go through the vests that Police wear.   But, in watching the video of them in action it looks somewhat similar to being hit by six pellets and a slug from a small shotgun.  I wouldn't want to be hit by one  of those.  I'd imagine they'd give ER physicians a hard time cleaning up the damage before the patient expired.

Problem is, this works like a frangible round (which is what it is, I guess).  It's only 96 grains to start with, and the petals shear off when it impacts the target.  You want a bullet to retain mass while penetrating, not shed it within the first couple of inches.  You're left with only a tiny little chunk of metal that continues to penetrate.  That will cause an ugly, shallow wound, kind of like shooting someone with birdshot (hopefully no one wants to start the whole "birdshot is the best for self defense" argument). 

Basically, this bullet combines the worst aspects of FMJ and Frangible ammunition.  Most of it fragments on impact, while the rest just icepicks on through.
Title: Re: R.I.P 9mm bullet
Post by: landon410 on January 29, 2014, 12:50:15 PM
bkoening: yea, but in slowmo it really kills the heck out of waterballons.... so it has that
Title: Re: R.I.P 9mm bullet
Post by: bkoenig on January 29, 2014, 01:02:04 PM
bkoening: yea, but in slowmo it really kills the heck out of waterballons.... so it has that

I'm sure I'll be wishing I had this stuff the next time I'm attacked by a water balloon.  :D
Title: Re: R.I.P 9mm bullet
Post by: OnTheFly on January 29, 2014, 01:15:45 PM
In another promotional video, they show a lot of full auto shooting into ballistic gel.  What the hell does that prove?

Fly
Title: Re: R.I.P 9mm bullet
Post by: GreyGeek on January 29, 2014, 01:44:17 PM
In another promotional video, they show a lot of full auto shooting into ballistic gel.  What the hell does that prove?

Fly

Isn't ballistic gel supposed to mimic human flesh?   The theory is that what it does to the gel it will do to the body.  ???
One thing for sure, that bullet will blow up upon hitting just about anything, so traversing 3 or 4 walls and killing Sally Bystander two apartments down isn't likely to happen.
Title: Re: R.I.P 9mm bullet
Post by: bkoenig on January 29, 2014, 01:47:54 PM
In another promotional video, they show a lot of full auto shooting into ballistic gel.  What the hell does that prove?

Fly

That full auto is awesome?
Title: Re: R.I.P 9mm bullet
Post by: OnTheFly on January 29, 2014, 01:58:08 PM
Isn't ballistic gel supposed to mimic human flesh?   The theory is that what it does to the gel it will do to the body.

Understood, but how is full auto supposed to demonstrate the lethality of that bullet or any other?  If you fire RN bullets out of a full auto, there will not be much difference in the devastation it causes.  30 holes in a person penetrating multiple organs is not going to be greatly improved by their bullet.

fly
Title: Re: R.I.P 9mm bullet
Post by: JTH on January 29, 2014, 02:58:51 PM
In another promotional video, they show a lot of full auto shooting into ballistic gel.  What the hell does that prove?


Prove?  Nothing.  But it certainly gets a certain class of people all excited about the ammo.  (I just love the fact that in the video, they later show a trillion of the shards all about 2 inches into uncalibrated ballistic gel, meaning that much of the round is effectively useless for actual defense.)
Title: Re: R.I.P 9mm bullet
Post by: RedDot on January 29, 2014, 05:16:29 PM
I'm sure I'll be wishing I had this stuff the next time I'm attacked by a water balloon.  :D


Is there a specific training class for that? ;D
Title: Re: R.I.P 9mm bullet
Post by: abbafandr on January 29, 2014, 08:03:48 PM
Is there a specific training class for that? ;D

jthhapkido, think there's a market for a class like this?   :laugh:
Title: Re: R.I.P 9mm bullet
Post by: JTH on January 29, 2014, 08:41:59 PM
jthhapkido, think there's a market for a class like this?   :laugh:

I don't think I could stand teaching it.
Title: Re: R.I.P 9mm bullet
Post by: AWick on January 29, 2014, 10:03:01 PM
This is a company in CO that has been developing a new bullet as well. I found them when I looked up the bio on my new CEO and found out that he is listed on their board of directors. One of my questions would be how "devastating" the peripheral fragments would be.

http://www.mibullet.com/ (http://www.mibullet.com/)

 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1TFTrBlfjk/url)
Title: Re: R.I.P 9mm bullet
Post by: HuskerXDM on January 30, 2014, 03:22:56 AM
I don't think I could stand teaching it.
But if it was water balloon zombies that would be awesome!
Title: Re: R.I.P 9mm bullet
Post by: abbafandr on January 30, 2014, 05:29:52 AM
This is a company in CO that has been developing a new bullet as well. I found them when I looked up the bio on my new CEO and found out that he is listed on their board of directors. One of my questions would be how "devastating" the peripheral fragments would be.

http://www.mibullet.com/ (http://www.mibullet.com/)


 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1TFTrBlfjk/url)

Think I will stick to Hornady critical defense or similar products, thank you very much
Title: Re: R.I.P 9mm bullet
Post by: JTH on January 30, 2014, 05:36:00 AM
But if it was water balloon zombies that would be awesome!

Ok, THAT I could do.  :)
Title: Re: R.I.P 9mm bullet
Post by: GreyGeek on January 30, 2014, 08:44:47 AM
uncalibrated ballistic gel,

I must have missed that part.  Where is it?
Title: Re: R.I.P 9mm bullet
Post by: GreyGeek on January 30, 2014, 08:50:07 AM
One of my questions would be how "devastating" the peripheral fragments would be. 

Probably  no more than being hit by a maximum of four bullets at once.   However,  notice the tether.   It looks like it would create a rather devastating slice and dice wound.
Title: Re: R.I.P 9mm bullet
Post by: JTH on January 30, 2014, 09:56:58 AM
I must have missed that part.  Where is it?


They didn't say uncalibrated.  However, they didn't say "calibrated" either, and if you've seen actual calibrated ballistics gel (which I assume you have) then you know it simply is NOT the wonderfully clear wobbly jello-like substance that is in the videos. 

They have another video that supposedly includes FBI-requirement-specific ballistic gel (and the video has several things about it that make me go "hmmm...." though the gel itself seems to be all right) and in it you can see that the gel is noticeably more translucent-heading-towards-opaque and firm.  (And unsurprisingly, the small fragments did not penetrate very much.)

Regarding the other type of round:
Probably  no more than being hit by a maximum of four bullets at once.   However,  notice the tether.   It looks like it would create a rather devastating slice and dice wound.

Given the round at hand, I doubt it would be anything like being hit by four bullets at once.  The tether would automatically preclude much in the way of penetration, and while it would probably create a nice scary-looking surface wound (lots of visible blood) it would surprise me greatly if it in any way managed any sort of actual stop on the attacker similar to regular self-defense JHP ammunition.
Title: Re: R.I.P 9mm bullet
Post by: bkoenig on January 30, 2014, 10:21:06 AM
I'm all for innovation, but I think the lesson to be learned here is that when your life is on the line it's best to stick to proven solutions unless something measurably better comes along. 
Title: Re: R.I.P 9mm bullet
Post by: landon410 on January 30, 2014, 10:40:15 AM
you want an effective shotgun round with lots of stopping power?
its next to a 223 casing for reference

this other shotgun round is just for people who can't aim.
I've said this time and time again, 99% of the time any criminal who sees you pull a gun is going to hightail it out of there, they won't yell "time out" to eye ball how big your muzzle is to guessimate what caliber youre pointing at them, they'll just go.
They also aren't going to think to themselves "i could take a couple rounds of 22LR to the chest and still accomplish what I want"

nope, they're gonna book it, why? because their sissies who can't ball up and live life as they're supposed to
Title: Re: R.I.P 9mm bullet
Post by: jscottjr on January 30, 2014, 01:00:24 PM
Understood, but how is full auto supposed to demonstrate the lethality of that bullet or any other?  If you fire RN bullets out of a full auto, there will not be much difference in the devastation it causes.  30 holes in a person penetrating multiple organs is not going to be greatly improved by their bullet.

fly

The only reason I can think of is demonstrating feeding reliability?
Title: Re: R.I.P 9mm bullet
Post by: AWick on January 30, 2014, 01:04:01 PM
I'm not saying that the Mi-3 is a wonder bullet. I do think it will have its place, even a small space, in the future market. I also would LOVE to think I never miss, but any advantage is better than none. A near instant 8-10" spread would be great if you are diving over furnature to your closest weapon to defend your house. Maybe I should take an operator instruction course! :D The article has this quote:

Quote
“According to national law enforcement statistics, more than 90% of shots fired in life and death situations miss their mark,”

I would like to see how effective this is against a denim-gel combo. They have 3 different lethality versions based on the density of the components. Also if you were to hit a guy with a peripheral fragment, I wonder if then other connected pieces would whip around and impact on the back side.

As for the high-tailing bad guy, awhile back my buddy was in the shower when a BG broke into his 2nd floor apartment. My buddy heard him, jumped out and grabbed his shotgun behind his bedroom door and the mere shucking of a round into the chamber caused the BG to jump out the balcony. So you're absolutely right!
Title: Re: R.I.P 9mm bullet
Post by: bwarner on January 30, 2014, 02:07:26 PM
20 rounds are 45.00 to 50.00 bucks a box.
Title: Re: R.I.P 9mm bullet
Post by: barmandr on January 30, 2014, 03:43:56 PM
20 rounds are 45.00 to 50.00 bucks a box.

Where?  I'll buy all they have.  A 20rd box on gunbroker is anywhere from $200 and up and has sold for over $400 sometimes.
Title: Re: R.I.P 9mm bullet
Post by: bwarner on January 30, 2014, 11:43:51 PM
Ammo to Go had some, SGAmmo will have it.
Title: Re: R.I.P 9mm bullet
Post by: barmandr on January 31, 2014, 05:11:22 AM
Ammo to Go had some, SGAmmo will have it.
Neither has any...SGAmmo never did.
Title: Re: R.I.P 9mm bullet
Post by: GreyGeek on February 03, 2014, 01:03:05 PM
RatedRR has some new high speed video of the  RIP bullet passing through a wall and hitting gel.   In some situations it appears that some materials plug up  the bullet and prevent the petals from dispersing.  In the "about" are links to other high speed videos
http://youtu.be/PTpceymbX6w (http://youtu.be/PTpceymbX6w)
Title: Re: R.I.P 9mm bullet
Post by: OnTheFly on February 03, 2014, 03:33:51 PM
The coolest thing about that video was at 1:45.  It had nothing to do with the R.I.P. bullet, just seeing the muzzle flash and watching the bullet come flying out of the barrel and travel towards the camera.

Fly