NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
General Categories => Laws and Legislation => Topic started by: RebelCoyote666 on February 28, 2014, 09:40:49 PM
-
Plain and simple, I've been mugged twice over the last two years walking around Grand Island, Ne. [Hall County]
Once at gun point and once at knife point, both incidents occurred after dark approximately 00:15 and 02:00. I was walking to the 24 hour convenience store to obtain a pack of cigarettes and both times was unable to because, well, my money was taken. :laugh:
So my question is, if I chose to open carry my long gun, [Mossberg Maverick 88] would I be breaking any laws? What would be the proper way to do so? I acknowledge that I'm 19 and inexperienced in these matters and am looking to the carry veterans for guidance and knowledge.
Also, if I were to be breaking any laws be it State, City, or County I will refrain from open carrying my weapon.
-
Legality or illegality aside, I usually advise inexperienced, nicotine-craving 19-year-olds to reconsider carrying their shotguns into convenience stores at 02:00. Just my two cents. :D
-
I understand your point. But the convenience stores I do frequent are friendly towards side arm holders. No signs saying otherwise and I have asked the managers and clerks and their opinion and mostly got confused looks and responses similiar to 'This is Nebraska, everybody and their dog has a gun don't they?' Simply I want to for my own protection as well as I do work nights, so my only real chance to go out and about is after dark.
-
A primary rule of self defense is to avoid confrontation. Lack of confrontation eliminates the need to defend yourself. No matter how well a person is prepared (training, observation, weapons, etc.) there is alway risk.
You have been attacked twice in the same place. I say avoid that place and your problem is greatly reduced. Take a gun to that place and the problem could get worse on many many levels. (surviving the initial levels, you may end up having to defend yourself in court explaining why you went back to a place that posed a problem, with a firearm.) Openly carrying a firearm may not deter theives and possibly encourage them (as now they know you have money for the store and a gun to steal also).
A police crusier driving by the store late at night may have a very oposite view of a man walking into a conveninece store late at night with a openly visable gun. Even though the store may be OK with customer protection, the police will most likely have a totally different view.
I have to side with not carrying the shotgun, avoiding late night convenience stores (and the local predators) and giving up smoking as all are likely to prolong your life.
-
Since you're 19, it is legal for you to posses a handgun. If you're determined to open carry it might be less of an issue to OC a handgun... just sayin'
Also, get yourself some non-lethal defense.. OC spray. I carry mine all the time because I can't carry at work (unless there is a miracle and the Level II permit bill passes). It's just good policy. And as Thomas would say... if you buy one, buy two and practice with one so you know how to use it.
-
Quit smoking?
-
One of the next rules of self defense is that weapons can be taken from you and possibly used against you (that can happen in several ways than the obvious).
I would encourage a self defense class that does not involve weapons. Not a marshal arts class of oriental format but a street smart type class. Such a class will develop a mindset that will have you (avoiding conflict) aware of your environment, options of flight or fight, open hand options or confidence to use other options (weapons).
Training strictly for one weapon can have a tunnel vision effect. Leathal force for a pack of smokes is a poor legal defense.
-
Omaha is the only place I know of with OC restrictions. The State has no mention of OC so local ordinances may address it... make sure to do your research.
Also, if I were to be breaking any laws be it State, City, or County I will refrain from open carrying my weapon.
-
Situational awareness will solve 90% of your problems, that includes not going to the mini-mart when mostly thugs and drunks are out.
IMHO, carrying a loaded shotgun on your person is simply not the appropriate response to this situation.
-
Go during daylight and save the hassle of being mugged at night when the thugs are out breaking out car windows there. Situational awareness starts with going out when it's safer to do so.
I would be willing to bet that if you are walking around with a shotgun, while legal, will draw attention from at least one person driving by and calling the cops on you. Then explaining you are headed to a convenience store with it will probably make you wish you didn't have to be smoking. Will probably get good quick service though.
-
Since you're 19, it is legal for you to posses a handgun. If you're determined to open carry it might be less of an issue to OC a handgun... just sayin'
Also, get yourself some non-lethal defense.. OC spray. I carry mine all the time because I can't carry at work (unless there is a miracle and the Level II permit bill passes). It's just good policy. And as Thomas would say... if you buy one, buy two and practice with one so you know how to use it.
Last I checked you had to be 21 to purchase a hand gun. As much as I loved to I don't think I can.
-
True. We've had a similar discussion on this forum with an 18 year old who had received a handgun as a gift, so without knowing your situation, I was just providing some info.
-
Last I checked you had to be 21 to purchase a hand gun. As much as I loved to I don't think I can.
Purchase, yes. Possess, no. You can be given a handgun as a gift, and own, possess, and carry it (OC) legally in Nebraska.
I note that I tend to agree with most people here: your choices have given you significant amounts of information about various threats in your environment. Carrying a shotgun (either in hand or in a sling in combat mode, because having it slung on your back won't help you at all in a surprise situation, which it what has apparently happened to you before) will 1) escalate the situation assuming one happens (after all, you have apparently not been physically damaged from your muggings), 2) potentially provide a free gun to a mugger if your awareness level does not suffice for the situation, 3) cause a significant amount of legal issues for you if you do not make correct decisions regarding use of force regarding lethal force in response to a mugging if your awareness is enough to not provide a free gun to a mugger, and 4) garner a significant amount of negative attention from the people around you, in particular the business where you are going.
This isn't me telling you what to do---I'm merely saying that carrying a shotgun turns your low-level (not saying "not important," merely saying "no physical damage") interactions with criminals into one significantly more dangerous. Particularly as you are planning on carrying a large, obvious weapon in an area apparently filled with people who already carry weapons and have no problem taking things from other people---where you will have difficulty walking around with a shotgun at the ready the entire time.
I'm all for people defending themselves. That being said, effective self-defense (that keeps you safe which includes both keeping you out of jail AND keeping you from paying large legal fees) in this case probably should really be more based on making intelligent choices (example: not going for smokes when you know people like to mug you----and as someone who worked the night shift for two years in grad school, we both know full well that you could think ahead and get smokes at other times), and being aware of your surroundings and the people in them.
Considering the "at gun point" and "at knife point" parts of what you what, I'm curious as to what the police did when you reported the muggings. I assume you gave them a description of your assailant in both cases?
-
Legality or illegality aside, I usually advise inexperienced, nicotine-craving 19-year-olds to reconsider carrying their shotguns into convenience stores at 02:00. Just my two cents.
This needs a "LIKE" button.
-
Avoidance. Evasion. De-escalation.
-
It depends, how bad do you want to be treated like a robbery suspect at 2am?
-
Purchase, yes. Possess, no. You can be given a handgun as a gift, and own, possess, and carry it (OC) legally in Nebraska.
Are you sure you can legally open carry a handgun at 18 (if received as a gift) in Nebraska? I know in Iowa you can but I was under the impression this was not the case in Nebraska?
Could you post the state statute that deals with this please?
-
Could you post the state statute that deals with this please?
[/b]
Always the Best Approach: Where is It So Written????
However, Nebraska state statutes are pretty much mute on the issue of Open Carry.
sfg
-
[/b]
Always the Best Approach: Where is It So Written????
However, Nebraska state statutes are pretty much mute on the issue of Open Carry.
sfg
Right....I knew that.......so the best thing we have to go on is possession?
-
Right....I knew that.......so the best thing we have to go on is possession?
Yup. It's clear that you did. My post was simply affirmation of your point. Better to look it up in the statutes than to ask a buddy. Or even a CHP instructor.
One approach might be to check case law. Wouldn't know how or where to start. Googling<"open carry" "case law" Nebraska> provides some insights and interesting reads.
The Open Carry issue begs for some kind of clarification. Mainly to give better legal cover to Those Who OC.
sfg
-
couldn't he just carry a cane and point it at people?
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/03/13/dashcam-shows-deputy-shooting-70-year-old-man-at-traffic-stop-but-what-cop-did-next-might-be-the-biggest-shock/ (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/03/13/dashcam-shows-deputy-shooting-70-year-old-man-at-traffic-stop-but-what-cop-did-next-might-be-the-biggest-shock/)
-
Gas stations (as well as lots of places) have a personality switch between 1pm and 1am.
My advice would not be to arm yourself, so much as figure out that some places, at some times, are not safe places to go.
-
Are you sure you can legally open carry a handgun at 18 (if received as a gift) in Nebraska? I know in Iowa you can but I was under the impression this was not the case in Nebraska?
Could you post the state statute that deals with this please?
Sure. As has been pointed out "open carry" is not discussed in the state statutes. As such, we deal with "possession." Can an 18-year-old possess a firearm, specifically a handgun?
---------------
http://www.nebraskalegislature.gov/laws/statutes.php?statute=28-1204 (http://www.nebraskalegislature.gov/laws/statutes.php?statute=28-1204)
28-1204. Unlawful possession of a handgun; exceptions; penalty.
(1) Any person under the age of eighteen years who possesses a handgun commits the offense of unlawful possession of a handgun.
(2) This section does not apply to the issuance of handguns to members of the armed forces of the United States, active or reserve, National Guard of this state, or Reserve Officers Training Corps, when on duty or training, or to the temporary loan of handguns for instruction under the immediate supervision of a parent or guardian or adult instructor.
(3) Unlawful possession of a handgun is a Class I misdemeanor.
-------------------
Emphasis mine. ("under the age of eighteen")
Related statute, for other weapons (which includes the above statute by specific citation):
-----------------------
http://www.nebraskalegislature.gov/laws/statutes.php?statute=28-1204.01 (http://www.nebraskalegislature.gov/laws/statutes.php?statute=28-1204.01)
28-1204.01. Unlawful transfer of a firearm to a juvenile; exceptions; penalty; county attorney; duty.
(1) Any person who knowingly and intentionally does or attempts to sell, provide, loan, deliver, or in any other way transfer the possession of a firearm to a juvenile commits the offense of unlawful transfer of a firearm to a juvenile. The county attorney shall have a copy of the petition served upon the owner of the firearm, if known, in person or by registered or certified mail at his or her last-known address.
(2) This section does not apply to the transfer of a firearm, other than a handgun, to a juvenile:
(a) From a person related to such juvenile within the second degree of consanguinity or affinity if the transfer of physical possession of such firearm does not occur until such time as express permission has been obtained from the juvenile's parent or guardian;
(b) For a legitimate and lawful sporting purpose; or
(c) Who is under direct adult supervision in an appropriate educational program.
(3) This section applies to the transfer of a handgun except as specifically provided in subsection (2) of section 28-1204.
(4) Unlawful transfer of a firearm to a juvenile is a Class III felony.
----------------
....I note that I still wish to state for the record that "the OP OCing a shotgun for his middle-of-the-night smoke runs" is legal, I believe that it is one of the worst possible choices out of a LOT of better possibilities.
-
I think I see a trend here.
-
Take comfort though in that if you are shot you can still be covered on your parents medical insurance until you are age 26 due to "Obamacare" ......