NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
General Categories => General Firearm Discussion => Topic started by: mott555 on October 08, 2014, 10:33:42 AM
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I'm finally getting things in order to get my Nebraska CHP and I'm finding it to be a logistical nightmare since I live in Omaha and my handguns, as I understand Omaha regulations, are unregisterable since I don't have original receipts or any other documentation of their history (not that I'd want to register them anyway). They are safely stored with family outside of Omaha until I get things sorted out.
I want to take the CHP class in Lincoln on November 2nd. I think I heard that Lincoln has handgun registration too? Does that mean I would be unable to bring my handguns into the city to qualify with them? And would I need a purchase certificate to borrow one at the range, like in Omaha?
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Lincoln's is not mandatory for possession. Bringing them for class is no problem.
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A far as I know ( Lincolnite here), Lincoln's backdoor registration only occurs at purchase. Firearms (handgun) specs and owner info are sent to a database at the PD.
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Omaha does not require receipts to register them. I registered a handgun a few years ago and took no paperwork with me other than my purchase permit and ID.
I just read the rest of your post so it makes more sense now.
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A far as I know ( Lincolnite here), Lincoln's backdoor registration only occurs at purchase. Firearms (handgun) specs and owner info are sent to a database at the PD.
Yep this is correct. They say it's for officer safety as they are notified of handgun ownership if they get called to your home. (BS) . And it is back door as they make the dealer do it without your knowledge after the sale. Believe it's a stipulation in their business license, could be wrong on that though.
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So basically I can go get my handgun and bring it into Lincoln and not be in violation of everything? Great to hear.
I can't wait to at least be able to legally store my handguns at home. Omaha seems to have a "No Guns" sign every twelve feet so that's about all it'll get me, but I suppose it's better than nothing.
I miss Missouri's "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" handgun policy. Their CCW law has a list of places you can't carry, but then it immediately says there is no penalty if you're caught carrying there ;D. Basically you had to be really stupid multiple times before you could get in legal trouble for it.
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As people have said, you will not be breaking any law if you take your guns from someplace outside of Omaha to Lincoln and use them for the class.
Even better, once you GET your CCW permit, you will then be able to move your handguns back into your home in Omaha without having to register them. :)
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NFOA Forum Lawyers:
According to his statement above, Mott555 lives in Omaha.
And he owns concealable handguns that are located outside of Omaha.
Now, according to the Omaha Municode, since he owns these handguns as an Omaha resident, is he required by law to register same handguns in Omaha?
What say you???
Omaha MuniCode
Sec. 20-251. - Required.
(a)It shall be unlawful for any person to own, have possession of, or maintain control over any concealable firearm which has not been registered to said person with the chief of police in accordance with this division, except when
(i) such possession or control is with the knowledge and express consent of the person in whose name such concealable firearm is registered; or
(ii) the owner, possessor or transporter is in compliance with the laws of the State of Nebraska under the Concealed Handgun Permit Act or has a valid license or permit to carry a concealed handgun issued by any other state or the District of Columbia if
(1) the holder of the license or permit is not a resident of Nebraska and
(2) the Nebraska Attorney General has determined that the standards for issuance of such license or permit by such state or District of Columbia are equal to or greater than the standards imposed by the State of Nebraska.
sfg
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According to his statement above, Mott555 lives in Omaha.
And he owns concealable handguns that are located outside of Omaha.
Now, according to the Omaha Municode, since he owns these handguns as an Omaha resident, is he required by law to register same handguns in Omaha?
What say you???
Omaha MuniCode
Sec. 20-251. - Required.
(a)It shall be unlawful for any person to own, have possession of, or maintain control over any concealable firearm which has not been registered to said person with the chief of police in accordance with this division, except when...
{snip}
That's a really interesting point, when you think about it. Say you live in Omaha, but have a cabin in Colorado. In said cabin, you have a gun safe wherein you keep several firearms of various types, including handguns.
According to the strict letter of the Omaha Muni Code----you are supposed to bring those in and register them. It doesn't actually mention anywhere that your ownership of said guns only qualifies if the guns themselves are in Omaha. It specifically uses "or" instead of "and" in terms of the qualifications.
That's interesting---I hadn't noticed that before. (It is also stupid, but then again, this entire section of the Omaha code is extremely stupid.)
Thanks for pointing that out, SFG----that IS something people need to think about.
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They having town hall meetings around Omaha. I wonder if anyone will bring that topic up.
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NFOA Forum Lawyers:
According to his statement above, Mott555 lives in Omaha.
And he owns concealable handguns that are located outside of Omaha.
Now, according to the Omaha Municode, since he owns these handguns as an Omaha resident, is he required by law to register same handguns in Omaha?
What say you???
Omaha MuniCode
Sec. 20-251. - Required.
(a)It shall be unlawful for any person to own, have possession of, or maintain control over any concealable firearm which has not been registered to said person with the chief of police in accordance with this division, except when
(i) such possession or control is with the knowledge and express consent of the person in whose name such concealable firearm is registered; or
(ii) the owner, possessor or transporter is in compliance with the laws of the State of Nebraska under the Concealed Handgun Permit Act or has a valid license or permit to carry a concealed handgun issued by any other state or the District of Columbia if
(1) the holder of the license or permit is not a resident of Nebraska and
(2) the Nebraska Attorney General has determined that the standards for issuance of such license or permit by such state or District of Columbia are equal to or greater than the standards imposed by the State of Nebraska.
sfg
How does the City of Omahaha know he owns any concealable firearm?
OP goes to his folks house picks up his dad's handgun takes the test, passes, takes handgun back to the folks place. CHP is issued, takes said weapon to Omahaha.
What law has he broke?
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Omaha has no jurisdiction outside it's city limits notwithstanding the statutes language.
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They having town hall meetings around Omaha. I wonder if anyone will bring that topic up.
Are you still beating this horse? I'm not certain anyone has time or gumption to actually voice a concern to the appropriate persons........ Someone else will.... right?
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OP goes to his folks house picks up his dad's handgun takes the test, passes, takes handgun back to the folks place. CHP is issued, takes said weapon to Omahaha.
What law has he broke?
None. But that wasn't the situation first mentioned. (It isn't his dad's handgun. It is his.) Nor was it the example I gave. :)
Omaha has no jurisdiction outside it's city limits notwithstanding the statutes language.
BUT----it defines a specific situation for a person currently IN Omaha. Technically, he is within that jurisdiction. Remember, the ordinance doesn't say anything about the gun, it simply says what the _person_ is required to do.
So, if you don't do it, you are in violation of that ordinance.
The person is within the jurisdiction, and has violated that ordinance, in the situation I outlined above.
....it is still stupid, though. It requires "the city of Omaha" to know your property, whether held in Omaha or not, and it requires you (as the owner of said property) to pay Omaha so that you can have it, even though you don't have said property IN Omaha.
Since you live there.
I'm pretty sure if any DA was dumb enough to take that to court, it would fail. Nonetheless, it is an interesting point.
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I'm pretty sure if any DA was dumb enough to take that to court, it would fail. Nonetheless, it is an interesting point.
[/b]
Kinda my thoughts on that situation, also.
sfg
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BUT----it defines a specific situation for a person currently IN Omaha. Technically, he is within that jurisdiction. Remember, the ordinance doesn't say anything about the gun, it simply says what the _person_ is required to do.
So, if you don't do it, you are in violation of that ordinance.
By that logic every person in the universe that owns a concealable firearm and has not registered it has committed a crime that can never be adjudicated because the evidence is outside the jurisdiction and there is no language limiting the ordinance to persons inside Omaha
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The purpose of Omaha's registration ordinance is to keep track of handguns within city limits and to prohibit indirectly their possession by certain classes of people. Over Omaha's objection, the state exempted holders of concealed carry permits. The ordinance might be stretched to include handguns transported through Omaha although the city attorney has stated that travelers won't be bothered. (There is a federal law that is supposed to protect travelers but several anti-gun eastern cities have been successfully ignoring it.) Any competent lawyer would tell you that where you live is irrelevant and that you won't be prosecuted for failing to register a handgun that remains outside city limits. There is more to law than reading the explicit words of a statute. Case law, which shows how the law is interpreted, matters just as much.
Here is another example of a law whose words can be twisted go beyond the legislators' intent and real world application. All automobiles are required to be registered and insured. I used to have a good car that I only drove from late spring to early fall and a beater that I drove through the winter. Whichever one I wasn't using went into storage and I suspended its insurance until I was ready to drive it again. As a result of a letter I wrote to my state senator about insurance, I was told that suspending insurance was illegal. All vehicles must be registered and insured at all times. There is no exception for ones not being driven. One could stretch this to cover antiques and classics undergoing long term restoration during which they are not drivable. How about car dealers? Are they required to separately license and insure all the automobiles on their lots? Ditto for wrecks in a junk yard. I contacted the Douglas County attorney's office for clarification. The lawyer who took my call advised me that I wouldn't have a problem provided I reinstated a car's insurance before driving it.
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By that logic every person in the universe that owns a concealable firearm and has not registered it has committed a crime that can never be adjudicated because the evidence is outside the jurisdiction and there is no language limiting the ordinance to persons inside Omaha
But since it is a city ordinance, it only has power over people within that jurisdiction. So people outside that jurisdiction are not breaking that ordinance. (They can't.) Once they step inside, however....
Matter of fact, if you think about it, that IS how the Omaha folks think it should be---remember, the OPD was of the opinion that even if you didn't live in Omaha, if you ever brought a gun into/through Omaha you had to register it. Even if you lived in Grand Island, and were merely passing through once. (And even if the city attorney now says they wouldn't bother people, in the past that was NOT the opinion of the OPD.)
Again, I'm not saying it isn't stupid (it IS stupid), I'm saying that an Omaha ordinance has jurisdiction in Omaha, and people who are within that jurisdiction are subject to it---and this one is written so badly that it is even more stupid than most gun control laws.
Of course what would happen in court (or prior to court, when the city attorney makes decisions) wouldn't match this. That point was made quite awhile ago. The point is that 1) the ordinance itself is written remarkably badly, and 2) the LEO that stops you for some reason and confiscates your gun because it isn't registered doesn't care that it won't go to court and that the city attorney will drop it. You still will need to try to get your gun back from OPD.
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Quote from: RLMoeller on Yesterday at 05:32:48 PM
They having town hall meetings around Omaha. I wonder if anyone will bring that topic up.
NEBull-Are you still beating this horse? I'm not certain anyone has time or gumption to actually voice a concern to the appropriate persons........ Someone else will.... right?
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This language makes your argument moot. Notice the key words inside the city limits.
http://opd.ci.omaha.ne.us/services/citizen-services/handgun-registration#1 (http://opd.ci.omaha.ne.us/services/citizen-services/handgun-registration#1)
Who is required to register concealable firearms with the City of Omaha/Omaha Police Department?
Omaha Municipal Code 20-251 requires that all concealable firearmhttp://opd.ci.omaha.ne.us/services/citizen-services/handgun-registration#1 inside the city limits of Omaha be registered. Regardless of where a person resides, concealable firearms inside the city of Omaha are required to be registered with the Omaha Police Department.
Persons whom are valid Nebraska CCW permit holders (or any other State which Nebraska has reciprocity with) are not required to register concealable firearms and can be in possession of concealable firearms which are not registered.
If the concealable firearm will physically be in the City of Omaha, however, you must still register the concealable firearm with the OPD at Central Headquarters located at 505 South 15th Street. Again, you will need a valid photo identification and must present the firearm to the officer at the front desk at the time of your appointment.
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Interesting Omaha Handgun Confiscation Case Coupla Years Ago
This Good Ol' Boy drives into Omaha from somewhere in central Nebraska to visit his brother.
For whatever reason, Omaha LEO pulls him over. Probably driving too slowly in town, like back home. Issue of handgun comes up, OWH was not clear how.
Officer sez, "May I run the serial number on the handgun?"
Law-abiding GOB, thinking nothing could be wrong with his legal .357S&W Model 19 handgun (legal at home, that is), sez, "Sure".
LEO runs the serial number. Handgun is not registered in Omaha. Gun is confiscated. GOB gets a court summons (ticket) and is now subject to a $500 fine and up to six (6) months in the city slammer.
If he had said, "I'm on my way to the casino in Council Bluffs", he may have gotten out of the situation (interstate travel, covered by USC 18 926a). But he was traveling in-state and the handgun was not legal at his destination.
OWH never did a follow-up article, so it's not clear what penalties were applied. Seems like losing the handgun would be penalty enough. Actually, too much.
There is no grace period in Omaha's MuniCode 20-251. The instant the unregistered handgun crosses the city line, it is.............illegal.
How About Them Apples..............
Now....This thread is actually about handguns in Lincoln. Lincoln has its own goofy laws. In Lincoln, can't leave your handgun in your automobile for more than 24 hours. Bet there's more.
sfg
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And Yes, a handgun owner does NOT need to show paperwork to register a handgun with the OPD.
I've taken numerous handguns without paperwork or transfer documentation for registration to the OPD Central Office, 15th & Howard Streets.
Generally works best if you get one of the female clerks. One gruff old male clerk started questioning me once about where I obtained the firearm, how much it cost, how long I had it, why I had it, etc.
I gently explained to him that such information was not legally required for the handgun registration process, at which point he sorta muttered and grumbled, but then went on with the registration.
How all of this squares with the Nebraska and US constitution, both of which clearly state the citizen's RKBA......I'm not exactly sure.
If........we were going for an abortion (the right to which is only a constitutional penumbra), then we would not have to endure such questioning.
Just sayin.........
Mott555 can go ahead and register his handguns in Omaha at his convenience, if he wishes to do so.
sfg
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I don't wish to register my handguns at all, one of the reasons I want to get the CHP.
It's been a while since I reviewed, but when I first moved into Nebraska OPD's website seemed to indicate that to register, I needed an original purchase receipt if I bought it new, or the full contact information for the previous owner if I bought it used. None of that is OPD's business IMO, and I really don't want to drive a few hours into another state, go to the gun shop, and hope he can print me off a new receipt from purchases several years ago without laughing to death at the reason why I need it.
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Mott555
My first post still stands, you may get your handgun and take the class in Lincoln for CHP, and break no laws as long as it doesn't go into the city limits of Omaha until you recieve your CHP, or the weapon is registered.
SFG, you flip-flop around like a fish out of water. You were wrong on your first argument and now want to go again. OK. Lincoln's ordinance on weapons storage in a vehicle.
9.36.110 Firearms in Unattended Motor Vehicle; Unlawful.
It shall be unlawful for any person to keep a firearm in an unattended motor vehicle for a period in excess of twenty-four hours.
The provisions of this section shall not apply to members of the Armed Forces of the United States, active or reserve, the National Guard of this state, or Reserve Officers Training Corps, when on duty or training, or peace officers or other duly authorized law enforcement officers, nor shall it apply to vehicles containing firearms that are parked in locked enclosures or buildings, such as garages or other storage facilities. (Ord. 18158 §2; April 7, 2003).
And it's not just handguns, it's any firearm. And in my opinion any person who leaves a firearm in their car unattended, in a driveway or on the street over night let alone 24 hours is just asking for it to be stolen, and is a full fledged idiot.
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Mott555
My first post still stands, you may get your handgun and take the class in Lincoln for CHP, and break no laws as long as it doesn't go into the city limits of Omaha until you recieve your CHP, or the weapon is registered.
That is based on the difference between the written municipal code, and OPD's interpretation of that code, yes? (Just like the State Patrol has in the past created administrative regulations that don't follow the specifics of state law.)
I'm not arguing that what you are saying isn't how the ordinance is enforced. However, at the same time it is true that is not what the ordinance says.
SFG, you flip-flop around like a fish out of water. You were wrong on your first argument and now want to go again.
That's a strong statement to make considering he quoted the ordinance correctly, and gave its meaning correctly. Where did he flip-flop there?
Again, OPD choses how it is going to enforce various laws quite often. (For example, IS open carry by CCW permit holders allowed if they don't have an Omaha Open Carry permit?) The fact that they choose to enforce said ordinance in one way is separate from what the ordinance itself says, in this case.
OK. Lincoln's ordinance on weapons storage in a vehicle.
9.36.110 Firearms in Unattended Motor Vehicle; Unlawful.
It shall be unlawful for any person to keep a firearm in an unattended motor vehicle for a period in excess of twenty-four hours.
The provisions of this section shall not apply to members of the Armed Forces of the United States, active or reserve, the National Guard of this state, or Reserve Officers Training Corps, when on duty or training, or peace officers or other duly authorized law enforcement officers, nor shall it apply to vehicles containing firearms that are parked in locked enclosures or buildings, such as garages or other storage facilities. (Ord. 18158 §2; April 7, 2003).
And it's not just handguns, it's any firearm. And in my opinion any person who leaves a firearm in their car unattended, in a driveway or on the street over night let alone 24 hours is just asking for it to be stolen, and is a full fledged idiot.
So, what exactly was he wrong about?
He said: "In Lincoln, can't leave your handgun in your automobile for more than 24 hours."
As a one-sentence basic comment, what is incorrect about it? It is certainly true that it can be amplified and made more precise---but even *I* wouldn't have said he was wrong.
And everyone knows I am nitpicky about details. :)
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