NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
General Categories => Firearms Training and Education => Topic started by: Chris Z on March 08, 2010, 05:43:27 PM
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The Nebraska Firearms Owners Association is proud to present Mr. Massad Ayoob.
Mr. Ayoob will be presenting his lecture course ?Armed Citizens? Rules of Engagement? in the Omaha area (LaVista) 21-22 August 2010. Also, he will be conducting a range course on 23-24 August 2010.
Mr. Ayoob is one of the foremost authorities of the rules of engagement for law enforcement and civilians. He has many years of experience as a Court recognized expert witness. He is a sworn peace officer, as well as Police Prosecutor. Furthermore, he is a well published and recognized author, and continues to write articles for such magazines as Combat Handguns, GUNS, and American Handgunner. Finally, he holds numerous awards and championships from competitive shooting over the past 30-35 years. Further information on him and his courses may be obtained from his website www.massadayoobgroup.com. This is a rare and exciting opportunity for the Nebraska firearms community to have such a talent come to our state. The course is open to Attorneys, Law Enforcement, and Civilians. A copy of a Firearm Purchase Permit, Concealed Handgun Permit, Law Enforcement credentials, or letter of good character from your local law enforcement will be required for attendance. The lecture course fee will be $400, and the range course fee will be $400. You may take the lecture course only if so desired. To take the range course, the lecture must be attended. The lecture class Saturday and Sunday goes from 9am-7pm and the range class on Monday and Tuesday goes from 8am-6pm.
For more information, please contact Cliff at (417) 540-5698 or Jim at (402) 290-5954
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You can also reach me, Jim using email mustang5o(that's the letter o) at rocket mail dot com.
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Is there a chance of a 'discount' for members? This is something I would really like to attend, but $800 is tough to come by and part with.
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We have been asked about discounts a few times, so here is the answer in writing.....
The fee(s) are based upon Mr. Ayoob's daily fee, his travel costs, and other anticipated expenses (i.e. range fees, advertising). As this is the first time such a an event of this scope has occured in Nebraska we are trying to keep the fee(s) as reasonable as possible, and still be able to cover the aforementioned costs. NO profits will be gained from putting on this event. Any remaining funds are to be donated to the NFOA and other designated firearm non-profits.
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We are currently sitting at half full for the full course with a couple of more expected soon (plenty of room for the lecture only portion). I posted some thoughts on the class from HK Dan at the Black Hawks Pistol Club forums. Massad was just over in Iowa earlier this month.
http://forum.blackhawkpistolclub.org/showthread.php?499-Massad-Ayoob-March-13-14
"So, you're thinking "I have a good gun and I know how to use it--what's he going to teach ME?" Well, Sundance, 90 minutes into this class, you are in for an "Oh ****" moment, and it'll last for 2 days. Most of us are ignorant enough that we don't know what we don't know. 90 minutes in, you start getting an idea of what you don't know, and it's frightening. He has 30 of those kind of stories, and they're all people he knows.
By the time the lecture is done you'll be ready to shake his hand and exhale. Ask anyone who's attended. The universal response to the question "How was the class?" is "Man, that was close. I'd have been in prison..."
Dan "
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I wish NFOA could put the lecture on DVD and sell it to members.
There was no way I could have made this. That silly thing called "work" always gets in the way of the important stuff.
::)
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I wish NFOA could put the lecture on DVD and sell it to members.
There was no way I could have made this. That silly thing called "work" always gets in the way of the important stuff.
::)
I wish too, however since Mr. Ayoob has parts of his lecture on DVD, I am pretty confident he would not allow this.
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I wish NFOA could put the lecture on DVD and sell it to members.
There was no way I could have made this. That silly thing called "work" always gets in the way of the important stuff.
::)
I wish too, however since Mr. Ayoob has parts of his lecture on DVD, I am pretty confident he would not allow this.
At this time there is plenty of space in the lecture part. The class isn't until August 21/22.
As Massad states about the class versus books/DVD's-He can't control who watches the DVD's or reads his books. Only those with proof of good character can take the classes.
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We have one opening for the 4 day lecture/range course, and one opening for the 2 day lecture course if there is any interest.
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I got a chance yesterday meeting Massad Ayoob and he was very cordial and very well spoken along with Bill Laughridge at Cabelas yesterday. Although my disability wouldnt let me take the class[affordability],I did have a good talk on the phone with Massad before he came here. I did ask him if he was coming back and he said it looks good that he will next year. rich17z
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Any one like to post an AAR for this event?
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All in all, four LONG days with TONS of great information.
Mas speaks very intelligently as if he is a Doctor, Attorney and Police Officer. This man is very well studied and educated in the topic of self defense
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Start saving for next year......
Very intense lecture and range course. Well worth it.
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Now I have to gather up all of my training documentation, document it, and mail it to myself via registered mail. In two weeks, all 10 pages of notes made during the rapid fire lecture and A/V presentation will have to be typed up, copies made and placed in aforesaid mailing to myself for future reference and proof of received training should I ever be involved in a SD shooting.
It's way cool to gab about bullets and guns and even holsters, but the REAL meat of the matter is "when" and "why". Mas' presentation gets deep into "when" and "why". (Most of us already know "how", as far as putting bullets where they belong. At least I hope the majority of us do.)
When can you shoot a fleeing felon? What instruction does a judge give the jury for a standard to base their decision on? What constitutes "jeopardy?" What is "disparity of force?"
Even if you think you know the answers to these questions, there's much more involved than most know.
You don't know what you don't know.
It's serious business boys and girls. We should treat it as such. It's our responsibility to do so.
I found it an excellent complement to the training I've already received both at TR and locally.
I have hung my lowly "287" score on the wall to serve as motivation to train harder and more often. I WILL have my revenge on relay 1. :D
Submitted this day, 25 August 2010, in fervent hope that MAG80 will someday come to town.
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Start saving for next year......
Very intense lecture and range course. Well worth it.
Thanks again for all your time and effort Bullit!
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It absolutely was a great time. I was strongly recommending this class before I attended based on years of reading Mas' stuff including his book "In the Gravest Extreme" and watching his DVD of "Judicious Use of Deadly Force" as well as seeing the first two seasons of PDTV....now I feel it's almost imperative to anyone that owns a firearm for personal defense.
I'm glad I was able to work with Cliff in setting this class up but even more so that I attended the class. It was great meeting you all in person after speaking with many on the phone or through email to get you signed up. I hope to see you all again.
Even though I passed the qualification I know I can do better. Lot's of dry fire and live fire practice to come.
In the end it really made me re-think many things. I may be stream lining my whole gun collection to focus on what I now feel are the most important things...including further training.
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(Most of us already know "how", as far as putting bullets where they belong. At least I hope the majority of us do.)
Even if you think you know the answers to these questions, there's much more involved than most know.
You don't know what you don't know.
It's serious business boys and girls. We should treat it as such. It's our responsibility to do so.
First off, congrats to the organizers responsible for bringing someone of Ayoobs caliber to the Midlands. What a great opportunity to train with one of the best in the buisness.
That said, I find it interesting that you write that most people are prepared more for the "how" than the when and why. I would argue that for most people there is just as much "you dont know what you dont know" about the "how". One simply has to look at how poorly several local citizens have done lately (referring to hits on target, not the end result) to confirm that suspicion. I would rather not rely on good luck and wishfull thinking when it comes to my shooting ability under stress. When I say this I am speaking from experience because I once believed that I was prepared to take on any deadly force situation and be sucessfull. My first full contact force on force drill several years ago changed that and was a real eye opener.
There in certainly nobody better to learn fron than Mas Ayoob about the when and why. If you havent already, go find someone equally qualified to teach "how"
- Shawn
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Now I have to gather up all of my training documentation, document it, and mail it to myself via registered mail.
I have hung my lowly "287" score on the wall to serve as motivation to train harder and more often. I WILL have my revenge on relay 1. :D
Good thing he said to wait a few days before you start transcribing your notes. I looked at my notes again this morning and I still can't read them...must have been writing in a foreign language or something. ::)
Lowly 287? My 284 then, is lower than lowly. :(
Thanks to all who made this possible. One of the best investments I've ever made.
Take care.
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I have hung my lowly "287" score on the wall to serve as motivation to train harder and more often. I WILL have my revenge on relay 1. :D
Submitted this day, 25 August 2010, in fervent hope that MAG80 will someday come to town.
Out of respect Tim, I won't post the top three scores of the class, or what brand of gun they were shooting :-)
Just write it on the back of your target......... And I know who I definitely have to look out for in MAG 80
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Well Chris, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but apparently an IPSC satellite got a hires pic of the highly questionable mod you had on your 30. It could well be all 3 of those Brand X guns may be called in for inspection and scores could be thrown out. No idea of who would have made the call to HQ to get a redirect on those birds though.
Stay tuned. :)
Since the MAG80 qualifier is shot double speed, even more practice will be needed to fine tune the delivery. It's good to have shooters like you around to raise the bar and let the rest of us know it can be done.
And Terry, nothin' at all wrong with a 284. You qual'ed and that's what matters... unless you were on relay 1. Rumor has it that all Relay 1 shooters have to get blood tests done for performance enhancing drugs. :)
No, I'm not bitter at all. :)
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Well Chris, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but apparently an IPSC satellite got a hires pic of the highly questionable mod you had on your 30. It could well be all 3 of those Brand X guns may be called in for inspection and scores could be thrown out. No idea of who would have made the call to HQ to get a redirect on those birds though.
Stay tuned. :)
Since the MAG80 qualifier is shot double speed, even more practice will be needed to fine tune the delivery. It's good to have shooters like you around to raise the bar and let the rest of us know it can be done.
And Terry, nothin' at all wrong with a 284. You qual'ed and that's what matters... unless you were on relay 1. Rumor has it that all Relay 1 shooters have to get blood tests done for performance enhancing drugs. :)
No, I'm not bitter at all. :)
Your ratted me out for putting that 2" cut up piece of bicycle inner-tube on my Glock Grip???????? yep, the IPSC Gods would strike me down for doing it
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Oh c'mon! That wasn't just ANY bicycle innertube! Pretty obvious it was Klingon technology.
:)
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Out of reapect Tim, I won't post the top three scores of the class, or what brand of gun they were shooting :-)
Good with the respect Chris. If you post the top three and the brands they shot, you'd also be honor bound to post the bottom three and the brand they shot as well. ;D As for the middle of the pack, I shot an out of the box (15 rounds, 5 out of each new mag for function) Taurus PT 24/7 PRO DS. My backup (not needed) was a Kel-Tec P-11 with 3500+/- rounds through it with 0 malfunctions. Take care.
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And Terry, nothin' at all wrong with a 284. You qual'ed and that's what matters... unless you were on relay 1. Rumor has it that all Relay 1 shooters have to get blood tests done for performance enhancing drugs. :)
No, I'm not bitter at all. :)
Lorimor, I concur with the need for blood testing. Take care.
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What are you testing our blood for? To see if there is Glock polymer flowing through out veins?
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Actually, I guess the real testing wouldn't be necessary...just the painful poking with needles and draining of blood would be enough. ;D
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About a pint of blood right before they shoot the qualifier should be good. Mas did that in one of his past level 4 classes. http://www.ayoob.com/lfi4.html While we are at it we can inject them with epinephrine at the same time. :-)
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About a pint of blood right before they shoot the qualifier should be good. Mas did that in one of his past level 4 classes. http://www.ayoob.com/lfi4.html While we are at it we can inject them with epinephrine at the same time. :-)
No epi for me!
Thanks for your help too Jim!
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Thanks Tim, I was glad to do it. Mas has been one of my favorite writers for a long time and I really enjoyed his segments on PDTV (when I could watch it). I had actually called LFI about having a class here. After talking to Cliff (who had already taken the lecture class in IA) he said "I have Mas' number I'll give him a call" then we found out about the split from LFI and the rest is well, history. A great, fun time in our history.
There was a little more to getting ENGC than just the non-profit but that was a major point at first. A few other issues were brought up by the board and we were able to address all of their concerns.
If we are going to get MAG80 in NE I need to get my butt to the range more. 5 days of shooting will be tough and oh so fun.
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Mas is funny ;D
http://backwoodshome.com/blogs/MassadAyoob/2010/08/30/thoughts-from-the-new-admiral/