NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
General Categories => Laws and Legislation => Topic started by: dark 45 on October 19, 2011, 03:47:42 AM
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i am not sure how i should begin going about it. my father wants to get rid of his collection and give them to me. he has the handguns registered in California, also a mac 10, tec 9, colt ARs and so on registered as "assault weapons" in California. when i was living there i was looking into it and it seemed i could take the "assault weapons" as long as they did not remain in the state. and the handguns had paperwork to change the names from his to mine although i am not sure if i need to register them to me since they will be leaving the state. so since i am no longer living there my main question is how to go about bringing them here. and what i could and could not bring into the state of Nebraska, "high cap" mags, the tec 9 has the barrel extension so is threaded, the mac 10 is all standard and semi auto, there is a 22lr semi auto that uses a 100 round drum mag fed from the top, i think it was made by norinco. it has been awhile since i have seen his collection and what exactly is in it. he also wants to get rid of his ammo, we are talking allot of ammo some i am sure isn't even in production anymore, so i am more then willing to take that off his hands as well. i have looked around for a few weeks now to find anything on what is needed to do as far as Nebraska is concerned. i know i can not be in possession of more the 19 weapons at a time or something like that so it would be multiple trips and the ammo trip would be one by its self, any help would be appreciated as i just moved here a little while ago and have yet found anything along these lines.
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I'm guessing the "no more than 19 weapon" thing is a California restriction? I've never heard of such a thing. My suggestion would be to make a bill of sale(for your Father's benefit) listing all the guns with their serial numbers. You won't need that here in Nebraska, but it may be nice for him to have to show that they are no longer in his possession. Other than that, just bring them on home, no AWB here, no registration of anything(except handguns if you live in Obamaha), no regulations on high-cap or drum mags of any sort. Same goes for the ammo. However, if any are SBR's or Full auto guns, I'm pretty sure those would need to be transferred to you via a FFL.
Honestly, your best plan of action would be to just ship all those dangerous, scary guns to me for proper disposal. Heck, I'd even pay shipping!! ;)
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I might recommend working with an FFL to get the firearms shipped/transfered. The rifles even those scary "assault rifles" you really should have no problems with. You could just load them into your trunk in gun cases and drive them across the country.
The handguns I would want some help with, you are only allowed to acquire handguns in the state you live in, I'm not certain there is an exception for handguns coming from an immediate family member. So those may need to be shipped to a local FFL who would do the paperwork to have them transfered to you.
Since this is coming from California I doubt there are any full auto's or other class 3 firearms but if there are I would speak with Rod Androyna from Exeter Arms to make certain that I was transferring those things correctly and have all the needed Federal paperwork.
Ammunition, there are limits to how much can be shipped at a time due to safety (IE explosives on the road) issues, I doubt there is that much. You most likely could rent a U-Haul trailer and load it up and be fine.
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When my Dad gave me his guns, I called the local BATFE office to make sure it was legal. (Dad lived in Kansas). The offical I talked to said no paperwork was needed as it was a father/son transfer. What you might want to do and I wish I would have done, is get it in writing from BATFE or have them refer you to the appropriate rule that you can print off the internet. If it's still okay that could save you a bundle in transfer fees.
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The handguns I would want some help with, you are only allowed to acquire handguns in the state you live in ....
You may purchase (or acquire) a handgun in another state. However, it must be shipped to a FFL in your state where you will complete the Form 4473 and take possession of it.
Now, if your dad left Kommifornia and moved to Nebraska (both of you are Nebraska residents) ... he could simply give these firearms to you as gifts (assuming no NFA weapons) with no hassle.
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You may purchase (or acquire) a handgun in another state. However, it must be shipped to a FFL in your state where you will complete the Form 4473 and take possession of it.
Good point, by acquire I meant take possesion.
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Good point, by acquire I meant take possesion.
In that case, we agree.
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I'm going to wait until one of the members who has an FFL chimes in,then agree with him. :laugh: I know California has many ways to trip up the most law-abiding,best intentioned people. I'm confident the posters above know their stuff,I just have a paranoia about gun law. RJ
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Lots of good advice, does dad have a will that would say you are the beneficiary, if so then all may be in place already as father,son,daughter can be gifted as I understand it.
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...and what i could and could not bring into the state of Nebraska, "high cap" "standard cap" mags...
There, fixed that for ya. Out here, we don't know what these "high cap" mags are of which you speak. :laugh: By the way, welcome to Nebraska!
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as the " high cap" goes i am speaking of 90 round 100 round drum mags, the quotation makes where in jest of the notion that 30 round mags are high cap.
i live in friend.
i am not sure if the no more then 19 firearms is just California law i thought it could be federal as well 20 or more then becoming an "arsenal of some description.
i think i am technically still a citizen of California for now and there are forms in which to switch registration over from father to son/daughter. i was thinking it would fall under me bringing my firearms with me into the state of Nebraska as i have not been here or set residence with a Nebraska drivers licence or utility as of yet. as most you could call me being here a vacation seeing if i want to move here witch i now do.
i have not shipped weapons through ffls before is there a fee per weapon? if so that is going to be problematic. as there are allot of handguns, to the point where there are multiple of the same firearm. i believe the number to be around 30 handguns, 25-30 riffles and shotguns.
the ammo spans across a 50 foot wall in the garage. crates of assorted calibers. it is from gun show hording, remember its California so when laws are set we buy everything before its taken away such as the .50 bmg ammo back in 05'.
as far as class 3 weapons there are none, the only one being of any concern is the tec 9 with the threaded barrel to except the extension. everything else fall under "scary" semi auto handgun or riffle. the mac 10 and ar 15s for example.
the California assault riffles are of concern in the fact you cannot even posses them out side of your home with out the paperwork deeming them yours. i think i remember seeing some where i can be in position of them with his paperwork while transporting them to be brought of of the state with some extra DOJ paperwork.
the will i believe is there leaving me most of everything i am not sure if it has been changed since his recent marriage but i know the firearms would still be left to me in any case.
the way i remember looking at this was i could go to California pick up the none "assault riffles" taking those with me right away.
the handguns i wasn't sure, in California if i was to keep them more then 30 days i would have to have them transferred to me via a form with registration change. but if i went to any other state i would just bring them in as my handguns i already owned previously. as i would have acquired them before becoming a resident of Nebraska as i have yet to legally do.
the California assault weapons where my main concern as how to go about bringing them here because once they are cross state lines they magically turn to plain ol' rifles, and i think my father would have to send in form stating he no longer has those weapons.
my father won't be visiting me out here and doesn't want much to do with the process to get rid of them as he knows little of today's laws and has little time to do things when he dose leave the house.
so as i understand it, i have to have the handguns sent to a ffl here in Nebraska once they are registered to me in California, the non California assault riffles i can take with me on the first trip. and the California assault riffles i have no idea where to go with those, as most ffls in California don't even want to set eyes on them even with the proper paperwork there.
i have paranoia with weapon law as well, more so then most having lived in California. the stories i could tell about bullet buttons and monster man grips ammo laws, its astounding people still buy firearms in that state. i just want to do it legally even if it means selling a few to finance multiple trips.
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Well, in my opinion: If you are still officially a California resident, you need to decide if it is easier(and cheaper) for you to transfer the guns in California under their laws before you move, or to become a Nebraska resident then have everything shipped to an FFL here and pay a transfer fee on each one.
There is no restrictions on transfer of ownership of the ammo, just pack it up and go.
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With the number of handguns you re talking about transferring my guess is that a friendly FFL would give you a discount to make it reasonably priced for the transfers, but they will charge something for their time.
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Dark 45........
One very direct approach to this situation might be to start with a complete list [by manufacturer, model, caliber, etc.] of all the firearms that you intend to move from California to Nebraska.
Then call a local BATF office--maybe in both states--make appointments, go sit down with BATF agents and determine clearly, exactly, and precisely which detailed steps need to be followed in order to transfer them from California to Nebraska.
Yes--of course--you'll be dealing with the Evil Authorities and giving them disclosures that we'd all rather not disclose.
But--infinitely better to do so before the move takes place than afterwards. If you have to deal with them after the move takes place because federal and/or state laws have been broken, even inadvertently, then............Bye, Bye Guns. And maybe Bye, Bye you.
Prime Example: The Exotic Animal Guy in Zanesville, Ohio had just gotten out of One Year in the Pokey because he had been in possession of an unregistered firearm. Which is a simple procedural matter. But he still spent one year of his life in jail.
A whole van full of "illegally transferred" firearms and ammunition is fodder for the BATF. And the newspapers.
And I wouldn't just go to an FFL dealer for advice on this issue, either. As a former FFL holder-dealer, I can safely say that I and most of my FFL colleagues did not know the fine points and nuances of firearms transfer law in any great depth. Proof?? Just listen to the BS sessions and conversations between a group of FFL dealers. Opinions range all over the map.
Just some thoughts for your consideration.
sfg
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Dark 45........
One very direct approach to this situation might be to start with a complete list [by manufacturer, model, caliber, etc.] of all the firearms that you intend to move from California to Nebraska.
Then call a local BATF office--maybe in both states--make appointments, go sit down with BATF agents and determine clearly, exactly, and precisely which detailed steps need to be followed in order to transfer them from California to Nebraska.
Yes--of course--you'll be dealing with the Evil Authorities and giving them disclosures that we'd all rather not disclose.
But--infinitely better to do so before the move takes place than afterwards. If you have to deal with them after the move takes place because federal and/or state laws have been broken, even inadvertently, then............Bye, Bye Guns. And maybe Bye, Bye you.
Prime Example: The Exotic Animal Guy in Zanesville, Ohio had just gotten out of One Year in the Pokey because he had been in possession of an unregistered firearm. Which is a simple procedural matter. But he still spent one year of his life in jail.
A whole van full of "illegally transferred" firearms and ammunition is fodder for the BATF. And the newspapers.
And I wouldn't just go to an FFL dealer for advice on this issue, either. As a former FFL holder-dealer, I can safely say that I and most of my FFL colleagues did not know the fine points and nuances of firearms transfer law in any great depth. Proof?? Just listen to the BS sessions and conversations between a group of FFL dealers. Opinions range all over the map.
Just some thoughts for your consideration.
sfg
This all makes sense... unless he wants to walk them across the Mexican border. In that case, it hardly seems necessary.
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If you want to make the transfer in California - since it appears that you are still a California [sic] citizen - I have a good friend who is a FFL in the Los Angeles area. Let me know if you would like his contact info.
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If you want to make the transfer in California - since it appears that you are still a California [sic] citizen - I have a good friend who is a FFL in the Los Angeles area. Let me know if you would like his contact info.
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i have paranoia with weapon law as well...
Isn't it sad it's so difficult for two law-abiding citizens to transfer legal private property? There are a bunch of good suggestions here on how to make sure you do it correctly and don't get sideways with Fed, CA, or NE law. Good luck.
Regarding the "high capacity" magazine comment, I get your sarcasm regarding 30-rounders, but the reason I bring it up is because it emphasizes that words are important. I've studied anti-gun rights propaganda for years and testified at numerous public hearings against people who want to take away our right to self defense. That's one of the terms they love to use - you know that well from living outside the US, in California. :laugh: You see, they have made up words that have no real meaning but serve the purpose of confusing the general public and making those people unfamiliar with firearms scared of guns. If we use the words from anti-gun rights activists, then we give their nonsense words legitimacy and further confuse or scare people unfamiliar with guns.
Consider anti-gun rights definitions vs public perception for terms they've successfully mainstreamed:
"high capacity magazine" - Anti-gun rights activists consider this a magazine that can hold 11 or more rounds, while the general public envisions belt/box-fed Rambo guns. It's easy to get their restrictive magazine laws passed when the public is scared of Rambo militiamen running around on the streets. And if we accept this limitation, then the next limitation will be 6, "because a revolver only holds 6 rounds and why would anybody other than murdering criminals need more than 6 rounds at a time?" And then they'll reduce it again once the maximum of 6 rounds limitation is mainstreamed. I can already imagine the Brady press conferences.
"assault weapon" - I hate this term. The Brady Campaign invented this term in the early 90s to push the Federal Assault Weapons Ban. Anti-gun activists define these as scary, black, semi-auto rifles (with a shoulder thingy that goes up (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=shoulder+thing+that+goes+up)). The problem is that the term sounds a lot like "assault rifles", which by definition are full-auto machine guns. It's pretty easy to confuse the public and scare the Average Joe into thinking an "assault weapon" is a machine gun (again with Rambo in the street images) and convince him to vote semi-auto rifles illegal (or vote for politicians who will). And that's exactly the reason the Brady Campaign came up with that term: to create confusion. Hell, look at this thread and count how many times "assault weapon" and "assault rifle" were used interchangeably. And we're the gun guys!
"offensive firearm' - The anti-gun rights activists came up with this to scare the public. Offensive sounds aggressive and if they are able to categorize guns under this term and mainstream it, I imagine they'll easily get that list banned from private ownership - at least in the less-free states.
There are many more terms the anti-gun rights activists want to mainstream - just spend 10 minutes on one of their websites or flipping through one of their books. Words matter. We've got a hard enough uphill battle educating the public on firearms, so let's work together and not help the anti-rights groups by making their nonsense words mainstream.
I yield the remainder of my soapbox time to Rick. :P
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~~ snip ~~
.... I yield the remainder of my soapbox time to Rick. :P
Don't get me started on those "fricken - fracken so and so's"... :angry:
note: edited for vulgar language.
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Don't get me started on those "fricken - fracken so and so's"... :angry:
note: edited for vulgar language.
Fricken-fracken is vulgar language??
Sure glad he didn't use Krumfark!!!! He mighta shut down the whole NFOA forum.......
sfg
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i have paranoia with weapon law as well...
Isn't it sad it's so difficult for two law-abiding citizens to transfer legal private property? There are a bunch of good suggestions here on how to make sure you do it correctly and don't get sideways with Fed, CA, or NE law. Good luck.
well i know ca law rather well as owning a single bolt action requires you to at least be a law student. it is crazy for a simple hand down and change of names there needs to be extensive paper work per firearm. make, model, barrel length, sr. num, even the finish of the firearm.
Regarding the "high capacity" magazine comment, I get your sarcasm regarding 30-rounders, but the reason I bring it up is because it emphasizes that words are important. I've studied anti-gun rights propaganda for years and testified at numerous public hearings against people who want to take away our right to self defense. That's one of the terms they love to use - you know that well from living outside the US, in California. :laugh: You see, they have made up words that have no real meaning but serve the purpose of confusing the general public and making those people unfamiliar with firearms scared of guns. If we use the words from anti-gun rights activists, then we give their nonsense words legitimacy and further confuse or scare people unfamiliar with guns.
i understand full well the tactics used to scare people into thinking my AR15 is a 240b. i don;t know how many times i have taken my ar out and people mention "you must must be a cop to have a machine-gun like that." i shutter and explain.
Consider anti-gun rights definitions vs public perception for terms they've successfully mainstreamed:
"high capacity magazine" - Anti-gun rights activists consider this a magazine that can hold 11 or more rounds, while the general public envisions belt/box-fed Rambo guns. It's easy to get their restrictive magazine laws passed when the public is scared of Rambo militiamen running around on the streets. And if we accept this limitation, then the next limitation will be 6, "because a revolver only holds 6 rounds and why would anybody other than murdering criminals need more than 6 rounds at a time?" And then they'll reduce it again once the maximum of 6 rounds limitation is mainstreamed. I can already imagine the Brady press conferences.
"assault weapon" - I hate this term. The Brady Campaign invented this term in the early 90s to push the Federal Assault Weapons Ban. Anti-gun activists define these as scary, black, semi-auto rifles (with a shoulder thingy that goes up (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=shoulder+thing+that+goes+up)). The problem is that the term sounds a lot like "assault rifles", which by definition are full-auto machine guns. It's pretty easy to confuse the public and scare the Average Joe into thinking an "assault weapon" is a machine gun (again with Rambo in the street images) and convince him to vote semi-auto rifles illegal (or vote for politicians who will). And that's exactly the reason the Brady Campaign came up with that term: to create confusion. Hell, look at this thread and count how many times "assault weapon" and "assault rifle" were used interchangeably. And we're the gun guys!
i wouldn't say "made" the word up, as i would say changed definition to include anything that isn't a revolver. then again they try and make it seem a firearm is only a offensive weapon.
"offensive firearm' - The anti-gun rights activists came up with this to scare the public. Offensive sounds aggressive and if they are able to categorize guns under this term and mainstream it, I imagine they'll easily get that list banned from private ownership - at least in the less-free states.
and the argument then needs to be "why are are law officers armed, to shoot anyone with a traffic infraction?"
There are many more terms the anti-gun rights activists want to mainstream - just spend 10 minutes on one of their websites or flipping through one of their books. Words matter. We've got a hard enough uphill battle educating the public on firearms, so let's work together and not help the anti-rights groups by making their nonsense words mainstream.
so what to reference high capacity mags, drum mags have just as "scary" contentions as high capacity magazine. if we are going to go so far as to change the way we speak, we should change the term "standard round magazine" because that would imply there are low capacity, normal, and high capacity mags. guess what they are going say the only kind we need? the low capacity of as you say 6 rounds.
back on topic of the transferring of these weapons. i would rather not go so far as divulge such information to a government agency, and is probably only going to need to be done to figure out the firearms registered as "assault weapons". that should only be needed for California because as i said after crossing the state line into Nevada they turn into regular riffles and California is happy to see them go. most of California laws are for the firearms remaining in the state, or bringing weapons in. i am more interested in what to do bringing them here to remain in this state. anyone know of a good ffl near Lincoln who could do the transfer, if i go that rout? also i would imagine i would need to get the licence to buy a handgun to have them transferred to me here correct? what about if i bring them in before i become a resident?
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I'm glad we're going to have you on our team, here in Nebraska. It is California's loss, however. They seem to need more people there that think like you do.
There is a handgun purchase permit here in Nebraska. You won't need it right away unless you establish residency here before you take possession of the handguns and end up transfering them through an FFL. It is also not needed to receive a handgun from a close relative within the state. And, if you get a CCW permit here in Nebraska, that doubles as a purchase permit as well.
Rob and Hope of http://www.exeter-arms.com/ (http://www.exeter-arms.com/) just got their gun shop opened in Exeter, NE last weekend. They are pretty close to Friend and Rob should be able to help you with any transfers you may need. He does class 3 weapons too. ;D
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I'm glad we're going to have you on our team, here in Nebraska. It is California's loss, however. They seem to need more people there that think like you do.
i was apart of calguns which leads the tip of the arrow of all California fire arms fight, their uoc issues and all, we made allot of head way until brown hit back with the laws he recently signed, i am sure it won't take long until they get the uoc issue resolved as we did with the ammo laws passed the year before. i can't say i miss the fight in California to much, the only reason i do is because it spreads across the us such as new york and so on. people sight California laws all the time. i believe California to be the front lines of the whole issue. they need all the help they can get, especially after these recent laws. we where working on the handgun roster last i was there who knows where they are at now. they over burden their funds and people with so many issues to take on at once. cal guns in its self is the secondary nra of California.
There is a handgun purchase permit here in Nebraska. You won't need it right away unless you establish residency here before you take possession of the handguns and end up transfering them through an FFL. It is also not needed to receive a handgun from a close relative within the state. And, if you get a CCW permit here in Nebraska, that doubles as a purchase permit as well.
how dose one go about getting the perches permit? in California you just go into the local ffl and take the test then it is issued.
Rob and Hope of http://www.exeter-arms.com/ (http://www.exeter-arms.com/) just got their gun shop opened in Exeter, NE last weekend. They are pretty close to Friend and Rob should be able to help you with any transfers you may need. He does class 3 weapons too. ;D
i will defiantly look into exeter arms, thanks. haha class 3, i have no idea how to go about that, as even mentioning class 3 in California or newyork is like talking about unicorns and Leprechauns.
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There is not test for the purchase permit. You fill out a simple form similar to a 4473, and pay a small fee. The document is good for three years and, while not needed for a long gun purchase, if you have one (or a CCW permit) the NICS check is waived. I actually prefer the purchase permit to needing a NICS check every time I deal with a FFL holder.
You apply through your county sheriff and it is a shall issue permit with three day turn-around.
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There is not test for the purchase permit. You fill out a simple form similar to a 4473, and pay a small fee. The document is good for three years and, while not needed for a long gun purchase, if you have one (or a CCW permit) the NICS check is waived. I actually prefer the purchase permit to needing a NICS check every time I deal with a FFL holder.
You apply through your county sheriff and it is a shall issue permit with three day turn-around.
oh defiantly worth it then, as i too would rather not have a NICS check.
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One can buy long guns out of state of residency if the gun are legal for the person to own in their state of residency. So in regards to handguns and CA banned firearms no FFL dealer is going to be able to transfer anything to you that is controlled in CA.
Not familiar with CA laws, if a registered DOJ AW can be sold in state then those CA registered weapons in that state where once removed from the state they would then be worth regular price since you could buy the same thing new. So money wise it might be better to sell in CA take the cash value and buy new better guns out of CA.
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oh defiantly worth it then, as i too would rather not have a NICS check.
Just to clarify,I believe the permit purchase IS a one time NICS check. I think the states don't HAVE to go through the FBI,but the level of background check is mandated and most states just go through NICS. Anybody know 100% the facts on the Ne purchase permit? RJ
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you are pretty close, i can't even take the ca aw out for a day at the range let alone sell them, nor can my father sell them. its a get them out of the state or destroy them kind of thing. the handguns from my father fall under different laws since he is family and second it is also a private transfer.
as far as the check goes, i just prefer quick easy and less info being thrown around. doesn't matter.
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cut and paste from CA DOJ website.
7.I have a registered assault weapon. If I travel outside of California with the firearm, can I bring the firearm back into California?
I have a registered assault weapon. If I travel outside of California with the firearm, can I bring the firearm back into California?
Yes, as a long as it is transported in accordance with Penal Code sections 12285 and 12026.1. These sections of law may be accessed on the DOJ Bureau of Firearms Website's Online Dangerous Weapons Control Laws.
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12.Can I inherit and keep a registered assault weapon?
No. Pursuant to California Penal Code section 12285(b), any person who obtains title to a registered assault weapon by bequest or intestate succession shall, within 90 days, render the weapon permanently inoperable, sell the weapon to a licensed gun dealer who has a permit from the Department of Justice to purchase assault weapons, obtain a permit from the Department of Justice to possess assault weapons, or remove the weapon from this state.
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15.I do not want to keep my assault weapon. What do I do?
If you have an unregistered assault weapon, you must relinquish it to law enforcement.
If you have a registered assault weapon that you no longer want to keep, you have three options:
a.Sell the weapon to a licensed gun dealer who has an assault weapons permit; or
b.Make arrangements with your local police or sheriff's office to relinquish your assault weapon. CALL FIRST. DO NOT GO TO THE POLICE OR SHERIFF'S OFFICE WITHOUT FIRST MAKING ARRANGEMENTS; or
c.Remove the weapon from this state.
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i am taking them out of the state, to Nebraska.